Aussie Cattle Dogs/Blue Heelers?

[lolita1]

Actually while a cattle dog wouldn’t be my choice in dogs I’m from Australia so met a few. They are actually used to chase cattle or atleast were so the breed was bred to have an attituded to do that job. I would call them real farm dogs that are very trainable and fairly good guard dogs. Some issues with some dogs with unknown people but isn’t that the point when you aren’t at home.

FWI I will add the reason I don’t like them is that the ones that I “didn’t know” used to want to heal my horse as I road it down the street. But Hey that is just another use for a dressage whip plus my horse learn’t to kick at them and got a few!

[naturalequus]

I absolutely never would have one of my own, myself. BUT, that’s just because they’re just not my type, personality-wise - it’s too easy for me to get dragged into a battle of wills with their type :lol: When we ranched, we used BC’s but one of our neighbours used (and raised and competed) red and blue Heelers. I can recall them being absolutely fabulous dogs - with cattle they are very forward and tenacious. But I also require this very experienced individual always talking about needing to be right on top of her dogs. Now, my parents have a BC x blue Heeler whom they acquired from the pound (he’s aaaall Heeler personality-wise!!!). He really actually is a great dog all in all but has some (relatively minor) behavioural issues - due to my mom’s lack of consistency and training though, not through any fault of his own. They need rules, boundaries, exercise, THEN affection. My parents acquired their boy though when he was turned in to the pound for biting a toddler - he was almost euthanized for this reason. What people buying these dogs as pets (and what his previous owners obviously forgot) forget though is that these are WORKING dogs with a very strong herding instinct. They need training, they need a job, they need that solid, strict guidance. They require, imo, a very different approach from say a BC because they’re very ‘strong’, focused, tenacious dogs who will take over as Leader if you’re not up to task. Where a BC will be looking up at you asking you the next thing it can do to please you, a Heeler’s already off doing his own thing. I’m 100 percent positive all my parents’ dog did to that toddler was to herd him. He wasn’t corrected and one day it got out of hand and he nipped a little hard. He gets along great with the horses though (with guidance) and I am able to correct him around rabbits, etc. He’s great for me to walk but sometimes he gets out of hand for my mom (her fault though) and has even bitten her (albeit lightly) a couple times (again, her fault for not establishing rules and boundaries - he wouldn’t dare touch me) - I can’t recall the one incident but the other incident I was present for was when she accidentally stepped on him (clearly he was telling her where to go - I immediately stepped in and corrected him and he backed down to lower on the hierarchy for the moment, without question). He still barks at me every single time I come to their door for a visit, even though he knows me well

They’re usually intelligent (though my Dobe x always beat out my parents’ Heeler every time - it was hilarious how she would ‘play’ him), strong dogs with a high prey drive. They can definitely be taught to be very obedient, but they require a lot of knowledge and consistency imo. They can become obsessive quite easily. They are very tough, stubborn, loyal dogs though. If you’ve got the right knowledge and are attracted to their personality, by all means, go for it!! They ARE great, very admirable dogs for all the reasons that cause issues at times, lol… just make sure you jump in with all the knowledge possible, first

[spinandslide]

I had ACD’s before my border collies.

-They are SUPER intelligent
-they are SUPER high energy
-they are SUPER stubbourn
-they are FIERCLY loyal

I used mine to drive cattle during the team ropings and to help break in new steers. The first few times we’d score the cattle, I’d send my male out and have him take the steer straight down the arena to the stripping chute…we did this afew times to make sure the steers knew where to go. then he’d help me drive them up the chutes,loading,whatever I needed. he was a TOUGH TOUGH dog…he took many a kick…never slowed him down…in fact, it pissed him off more if one tried to kick at him.

He was insanely stubourn however…he took a very firm, but FAIR hand to train. They can also be quite vindictive if you piss them off…in a passive way…mine would poop on the floor if I left him…never failed, he ALWAYS would…so he was crated when I was not home, which worked out fine.

they are prone to hip dysplasia. my male came with a guarantee, his parents were “VERY GOOD” rated and he never had an issue. something to consider.

they are easy care dogs…“wash n wear” coats, very short. they tend to do well in the heat.

They generally pick one person in the house and that is their person. they enjoy their family, but they would give their life for their one person. they are usually fiercly protective of their family and wary of strangers.

I lost my male to spleenic cancer 2 years ago…it was the sadest day of my life…I loved that dog. this is him and my female, who is 11 and still with us, back when they were about a year old.
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/members/spinandslide-albums-other+photos-picture63713-akc-blue-heelers-m-m-rough-enough.jpg

If you can committ to this breed, they are awesome…but you must committ to them and realize what you are getting.

[threedogpack]

I have to chime in here for a moment. Of all the dogs I’ve fostered, had in class and owned, stubborn just meant smart. Stubborn dogs seem to be independent which somehow equals bad for most people. The “stubborn” dogs were the ones that learned the fastest for me and learned it completely. I don’t think that most dogs are “stubborn” but they do a cost/benefit analysis and think about whats in it for them.

Think for a moment of those individuals or breeds that are often labeled stubborn…JRT’s, ACD’s, Corgi’s, GSD, most of the LGD…they are all breeds that were developed to be independent workers and to think about how to get out of sticky situations as well as being bred for courage. When you have a thinking, courageous dog, you have to be able to convince them that you are worth listening to, so that you have a partner not a dog who is simply obedient. If you have convinced them you are worth listening to and trustworthy there is no need to be on top of them or alpha or whatever.

[spinandslide]

why I said, one must be firm, but fair with an ACD…

I see some breeds, espc the LGD’s being independent and thus labeled stubbourn…due to their line of work…

Border Collies have been bred for centuries to be independent…when needed…the shepherd had to trust he could send that dog up into the hills, without the shepherd…and know all the sheep would be brought safely to him. so, they can be utterly independent and quick thinkers…however, I wouldnt label them stubbourn like I’d label an ACD stubbourn…and it doesnt have to do with brains…I firmly beleive it has to do with their original purpose…ACD’s were created to handle cattle…considerably tougher then most sheep. the ACD had to be tenacious when confronted with a cow who didnt want to go where he wanted her to go. he had to keep after her til she moved.

border collies on the other hand…did not have a need to be so tenacious…since they were working sheep…and sheep are considerably softer then the range cattle of Australia…not to say they didnt have to be assertive…but it was a different kind then was needed in an ACD.

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;5766264]
I have to chime in here for a moment. Of all the dogs I’ve fostered, had in class and owned, stubborn just meant smart. Stubborn dogs seem to be independent which somehow equals bad for most people. The “stubborn” dogs were the ones that learned the fastest for me and learned it completely. I don’t think that most dogs are “stubborn” but they do a cost/benefit analysis and think about whats in it for them.

Think for a moment of those individuals or breeds that are often labeled stubborn…JRT’s, ACD’s, Corgi’s, GSD, most of the LGD…they are all breeds that were developed to be independent workers and to think about how to get out of sticky situations as well as being bred for courage. When you have a thinking, courageous dog, you have to be able to convince them that you are worth listening to, so that you have a partner not a dog who is simply obedient. If you have convinced them you are worth listening to and trustworthy there is no need to be on top of them or alpha or whatever.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree; I don’t think the ‘stubbornness’ is necessarily a bad thing, just that it requires more skill and tact and knowledge of the person handling them. Moreso, than say handling a BC. Give a BC exercise and a job to do and they’ll do whatever is asked of them without question, whereas with a Heeler you still have to earn that right to tell them what to do It just takes the right approach to work with a Heeler, but that right approach is absolutely crucial. I mentioned it though because I find Heelers to require a different approach than most dog breeds I’ve known just because of that fierce tenacity.

Just as with that same personality type in horses, the person has to be firm, fair, consistent, and needs to earn their leadership role (it can’t just be imposed). What I meant when I said a person has to be on top of them just was that a person needs to be alert and provide clear and consistent boundaries before the dog takes over They need to be ready at all times to correct within those parameters, and to earn their role as leader (albeit less so as each settle into their roles and routines!). Also, there should be no need for corrections such as the one I made with my mom’s dog when he bit her - he was put in the wrong position to begin with when she didn’t earn her right to lead him. As such, he corrected her when he felt it appropriate, rather than vice versa, as appropriate. While he never should have bit her, I pointed out to her that she completely set him up for failure in that aspect. If she wants to have a say in what he does, she needs to step up in all aspects and earn that right - she can’t cherry pick when to lead him and when to just allow him to take over. Jmho.

Hence why I said they really are great and admirable dogs - for all the reasons that can cause issue. If one has the knowledge to work with such a type of dog, they really will enjoy them.

I have to agree with spinandslide, too… while I definitely recognize Heelers are intelligent individuals, I don’t find that is linked to their stubbornness. That said, I don’t like it when people refer to such animals (horses, dogs, etc) as ‘dumb’ when that just is not the case - the person lacks the correct approach is all. They were bred to be extremely tenacious and that they are. That tenacity can be a huge asset to you, but it requires skill to mold, shape, and channel

[threedogpack]

My point being that descriptors matter when speaking of dogs/trainability. Stubborn denotes a dog who is resistant to training or refusal to work with you. The heelers I’ve known are not resistant to training and every single one I’ve dealt with have been uber-over-the-top-super-smart.

[Kyzteke]

@threedogpack;5767212

My point being that descriptors matter when speaking of dogs/trainability. Stubborn denotes a dog who is resistant to training or refusal to work with you. The heelers I’ve known are not resistant to training and every single one I’ve dealt with have been uber-over-the-top-super-smart.

I never thought of “stubborn” as being difficult to train IF the handler knows what they are doing. But usually these types of dogs don’t do well with force or intimidation.

JRT’s are a perfect example. Mine was simply THE smartest dog I ever met, and was pretty well trained as well. But her real intelligence was shown when problem solving independent of me.

For instance, for years when I was handing out scraps, (3 dogs, 1 JRT; scraps were handed out equally), she would suddenly tear off, out the back (doggie) door, barking wildly!!

The other two dogs (a Pit Bull mix and a heeler/Rottie mix) would hear the “alarm” and bolt off after her, ready to couragously come to her aid in defense of the homestead.

Then, a minute or so later, back would trot the JRT, alone. There was never any intruder out there, but during the time “the boys” would spend running the fence line and peeing on stuff to underscore their ownership of the turf, the JRT would be back in the kitchen, calmly gulping up their share of the hand-outs!

The other dogs never figured out this ruse, and Rosie used it for most of her life. Now THAT is a smart dog!!

[spinandslide]

[QUOTE=naturalequus;5767010]
I have to agree with spinandslide, too… while I definitely recognize Heelers are intelligent individuals, I don’t find that is linked to their stubbornness. That said, I don’t like it when people refer to such animals (horses, dogs, etc) as ‘dumb’ when that just is not the case - the person lacks the correct approach is all. They were bred to be extremely tenacious and that they are. That tenacity can be a huge asset to you, but it requires skill to mold, shape, and channel :)[/QUOTE]

I dont think I’ve ever met a “dumb” animal…usually its the person labeling them as such that is…;)…certain animals make us think outside our proverbial “box” of training and communication sometimes…its up to US to smarten up and mold the program to the animal…JMO

[spinandslide]

I did not use stubbourn in resistant to training or lack of brains…they are super smart, which combined with their tenacity, creates a stubbourn dog if you are not fair, but firm with them…you cant be “fair” only, as they will walk all over you…but you cant only be firm either, because they will ignore you…it’s avery fine line.

My husband had heelers growing up and when I let him work my BC the first time, he went in with alittle to much “firm” for my BC’s likeing and it shut him down…would have been acceptable for my heeler, but not the BC…(by firm, I am not talking mean or abusive…Im talking about his energy and tone of commands)

Old cowboy told me, at an auction where my heeler was sleeping at my feet “You can beat a heeler all day and when you stop, he’ll turn around, bite ya and run off”

Obviously I dont advocate TESTING this theory, and when the cowboy told me this, I was horrified and promptly moved…but I think the general idea I took away from it was “They are tough dogs and need a balance of kindness AND firmness…to much of either one and you will have a dog who doesnt listen”

[Kyzteke]

@spinandslide;5767926

I dont think I’ve ever met a “dumb” animal…

Actually, this is OT, but the phrase “dumb” animal historically does NOT mean their lack of intelligence, but their inability to speak. As in “deaf & dumb.”

Someone how people have turned it into an intelligence usage, but that that wasn’t the original meaning.

Just alittle useless trivia

[spinandslide]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5768173]
Actually, this is OT, but the phrase “dumb” animal historically does NOT mean their lack of intelligence, but their inability to speak. As in “deaf & dumb.”

Someone how people have turned it into an intelligence usage, but that that wasn’t the original meaning.

Just alittle useless trivia ;)[/QUOTE]

ah, I understand what you are saying…in that context, yes they are.

Unfortunantly, the term dumb has taken on to mean “not smart”…

[naturalequus]

[QUOTE=spinandslide;5767926]
I dont think I’ve ever met a “dumb” animal…usually its the person labeling them as such that is…;)…certain animals make us think outside our proverbial “box” of training and communication sometimes…its up to US to smarten up and mold the program to the animal…JMO[/QUOTE]

'When I hear somebody talk about a horse or a cow being stupid I figure its a sure sign that animal has outfoxed them."
Tom Dorance

I think the same can very well be applied to dogs

[Burbank]

you know I have met a few animals that are a few crayons short of a full box, nice but not all there
however it seems that all my personal pets are always trying to pull a joke or outsmart me, gotta love one with character

[candysgirl]

My FIL has an ACD/blue heeler. She’s pushing 20. Has lived outside her entire life (to the point that if you want her to come in the house, you have to carry her in and she shoots back outside first chance she gets) and has eaten Old Roy. She’s a great dog. Never leaves (or I’m told ever tried to) the property. She leaves the cats alone and sounds the alarm if something is amiss on the property.

He recently got a second one that’s about a year old. She’s extremely sweet, but is sort of brainless and ridiculously hyper. She doesn’t really cause any problems though. She tries to herd the horses every now and again, but they ignore her.

They can be decent dogs if you’ve got the time and/or land to deal with their energy.