Bad feet and loose shoes

[Jeepgirl311]

Hi COTHers! I bought my first horse a few months ago, and she came with not so great feet. She had been in my trainers barn for 6m prior to me buying her, so while my trainer had her they (trainer/farrier) worked to get her feet in better shape but also since she was a sale horse they weren’t doing any kinds of supplements with her.

Anyway, her feet are still not great and she seems to throw a shoe (or have a loose one) fairly often. I have ridden my entire life but never owned my own horse before and had the ability to make decisions about these kinds of things. I would love some guidance.

Trainer said they used hoof hardener on her when she first got there and had good results, so I thought I would try that in conjunction with FF from SmartPak and see how it goes. Any other suggestions? Does this make sense or should I try something else? I am tired of having to call the farrier out every week or two to tap a loose shoe back on.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[Amy3996]

What’s her diet? In my experience, a properly balanced diet is the first step to addressing poor hoof quality. If you want to supplement or use topicals in addition to that, then absolutely go for it, but it won’t do much unless other nutritional gaps are resolved first. I’ve had really great results with Vita-Biotin Crumbles, paired with TC ration balancer and ground flax. IMHO (and per several farriers I’ve worked with) Farrier’s Formula is really just a wildly overpriced biotin supplement.

Also, my horse was notorious for pulling shoes until I found a farrier who was able to balance his feet correctly, and use corrective shoeing to get him tracking properly so he wasn’t stepping on himself and yanking the shoes off. It might be worth getting a second opinion from another reputable farrier in your area, if at all possible. It’s not a knock to your current farrier’s skills - sometimes a fresh set of eyes and perspective can be tremendously helpful.

[Lord_Helpus]

Try glue on shoes. I have used them on several horses with bad feet and glue on’s saved their feet until the bad part of the foot had grown out. You need some one who is experience with this kind of shoes.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

1. Proper nutrition (check out pinned post on FB group Hoof Rehab Help)
2. Good farrier
3. Short shoeing period (no longer than 5 weeks)

[S1969]

@Melissa.Van Doren

1. Proper nutrition (check out pinned post on FB group Hoof Rehab Help)
2. Good farrier
3. Short shoeing period (no longer than 5 weeks)

Pretty much. I might put good farrier as #1 because a good farrier can do a lot with horses that aren’t even in perfect condition…but a bad farrier can wreck the feet of a perfectly healthy horse.

5-6 weeks is probably ideal for most horses; some can go a bit longer, others maybe not. But if losing shoes I would consider shortening the interval…assuming the farrier is doing good work.

[Jeepgirl311]

Thanks everyone! To answer a few questions:

• The farrier is excellent, my trainer has used him for years, everyone in the barn loves him.

• She was on an every 6-week schedule but I can ask to bump her up to every 4/5 weeks, the farrier is at our barn 3 out of 4 weeks a month anyway.

• She is fed 1 scoop of Profecta 10% pellets, 1/2 scoop Ultium gastric care, and 1/4 scoop Purina amplify twice daily (plus her SmartPak, she just gets the regular one)

I am also going to start putting her in bellboots to see if that helps keep the shoes on, but I definitely think it is more of an underlying foot issue. I will ask about the glue on shoes and see if this farrier is experienced with that, thanks!

[JB]

Without knowing what she’s been eating for the last 6 months, and what her feet currently look like, it’s all a guessing game as to what may help.

[Jeepgirl311]

@JB

Without knowing what she’s been eating for the last 6 months, and what her feet currently look like, it’s all a guessing game as to what may help.

She is fed 1 scoop of Profecta 10% pellets, 1/2 scoop Ultium gastric care, and 1/4 scoop Purina amplify twice daily and has been for over 6 months. Plus timothy orchard alfalfa. I can try to get pictures of her feet to post!

[JB]

How big is the scoop? Is there a reason for mixing 2 pretty different feeds?

[S1969]

@Jeepgirl311

Thanks everyone! To answer a few questions:

• The farrier is excellent, my trainer has used him for years, everyone in the barn loves him.

• She was on an every 6-week schedule but I can ask to bump her up to every 4/5 weeks, the farrier is at our barn 3 out of 4 weeks a month anyway.

• She is fed 1 scoop of Profecta 10% pellets, 1/2 scoop Ultium gastric care, and 1/4 scoop Purina amplify twice daily (plus her SmartPak, she just gets the regular one)

I am also going to start putting her in bellboots to see if that helps keep the shoes on, but I definitely think it is more of an underlying foot issue. I will ask about the glue on shoes and see if this farrier is experienced with that, thanks!

Well, it’s really hard to say. My horse can hold shoes for 8 weeks. The ideal cycle length for her is 6-7 weeks. My farrier will not do her every 4 because she doesn’t need it and it would be stupid to pull shoes and make new nail holes for no good reason.

Not sure that glue-ons will stay on any better - again, it depends on the reason she is losing shoes. Glue isn’t going to stay on better than nails unless the problem is crumbling/brittle walls and nails make them worse. If she’s stepping on them then bell boots should help but I’d still be looking at the trim.

[brody]

Be careful of too short a cycle as well. The newest addition here has been done every 4 weeks for 2 years and it’s destroyed his feet. Fixing him is going to be No Fun

[alterhorse]

@Jeepgirl311

She is fed 1 scoop of Profecta 10% pellets, 1/2 scoop Ultium gastric care, and 1/4 scoop Purina amplify twice daily and has been for over 6 months. Plus timothy orchard alfalfa. I can try to get pictures of her feet to post!

Yes, post pictures.

If you’re using an average 3-quart scoop, the feed amount sounds typical.

I like Farriers Formula.

I’ve seen good results using Keratex Hoof hardener applied per the label instructions.

What is the breed, weight, and age of the horse?
What color are the horses feet.
What work is the horse used for and how often.
Describe the horse’s average daily routine, such as… turnout details, turnout time of day, length of turnout, is the horse turned out on morning grass wet with dew. what type of turnout is it, is the horse stalled, the weather region i.e. temperate deciduous, pacific NW, desert, wet, dry, hot, cold, general region, etc…

When, how, where, why, does the horse loose its shoes. Which legs are loosing shoes. Does the horse loose hoof wall when a shoe comes off. What kind of shoes are they. Is the horse shod behind.

Do the the shoes use quarter clips, toe clips, or no clips. How many nails are in each shoe. When the shoes come off are they ever bent when you find them.

Does the horse loose shoes in the pasture, when being ridden, or both. Is the horse prone to loosing shoes more often while being ridden by one particular rider than with other riders.

How often is the horse hosed off or bathed.

[TCA_Arabians]

We had a guy that would throw his rear shoe. It was the farrier that wasn’t allowing for differences in hoof growth. I like Alterhorse’s questions to help you diagnose the possible problems.

But, I’m really curious about the hosing/bathing question??

[EventerAJ]

@TCA Arabians

We had a guy that would throw his rear shoe. It was the farrier that wasn’t allowing for differences in hoof growth. I like Alterhorse’s questions to help you diagnose the possible problems.

But, I’m really curious about the hosing/bathing question??

Daily hosing and bathing tends to waterlog the feet…fine if you’re in an arid climate or with little/no turnout amd horse lives in a dry bedded stall. If your horse is in a moist environment, such as turnout overnight with dew, there begins a vicious wet/dry cycle that weakens the hoof wall around the nail holes, cracking and chipping and wiggling that makes it difficult to hold a shoe on.

I avoid hosing my horses when possible, but here in humid FL it’s mostly a daily thing. I use Keratex 5x a week, and I try to apply hoof oil or Corona to shod feet before bathing (it helps shed water, hopefully less in the nail holes). A dry foot is a healthy, strong foot. While I like 24/7 turnout, I try to keep my shod horses inside on dry shavings for 6+ hours…my farrier would prefer them not to be out in the dew at night, but daytime turnout in 100deg is not an option for me.

Despite my efforts, one horse is probably going to need glue next cycle. He was barefoot until June, but doesn’t grow foot well and was wearing his feet down to nubs. He’s much happier in shoes…but has ripped one off three times (with bell boots) and doesn’t have much wall left. I SHOULD try him on a hoof supp, though “theoretically” he is getting great nutrition from good feed and alfalfa. He grows half as much as my other horses…what length they get in 3 weeks takes him 6. But we never make it that long before he grabs a shoe off…! Not a farrier issue, have a great one who balances all my OTTBs well. It’s just a tough management issue with this horse.

[TCA_Arabians]

Thanks EventerAJ … That makes sense. We’re in the high desert and before that in an area of SoCal where wet/humid conditions don’t exist. I have the opposite problem.

[mswillie]

If her feet are crumbly or chalky you might want to try a CleanTrax soak. It kills the pathogens associate with white line disease. I used it with my horse, added some biotin to his feeding regimen, and his feet are now in really good shape, years later. Turns out he didn’t have “weak feet” just really poor management prior to my buying him.

[S1969]

@EventerAJ

While I like 24/7 turnout, I try to keep my shod horses inside on dry shavings for 6+ hours…my farrier would prefer them not to be out in the dew at night, but daytime turnout in 100deg is not an option for me.

Despite my efforts, one horse is probably going to need glue next cycle. He was barefoot until June, but doesn’t grow foot well and was wearing his feet down to nubs. He’s much happier in shoes…but has ripped one off three times (with bell boots) and doesn’t have much wall left. I SHOULD try him on a hoof supp, though “theoretically” he is getting great nutrition from good feed and alfalfa. He grows half as much as my other horses…what length they get in 3 weeks takes him 6. But we never make it that long before he grabs a shoe off…! Not a farrier issue, have a great one who balances all my OTTBs well. It’s just a tough management issue with this horse.

I don’t know how much I really think dew/wetness matters. In my climate (NY) the ground is wet with dew half the year, and with snow/mud the other half. It’s very rare if the grass is not wet overnight. I don’t really see any major difference in my horses’ feet. The most obvious issue is the stomping from flies at this time of year when the ground is dry and hard. Fly boots have made more of a difference than anything other than shoes on my TB.

To be honest, if your horse is stepping on/pulling shoes at 3 weeks, I would say it is a farrier problem. Or a conformation problem in your horse, but since you can’t change that, the only really good option is the farrier. Glue on shoes will get ripped off just as easily if the horse steps on them…so you need the solution to keep your horse from interfering/grabbing.

[Montanas_Girl]

@brody

Be careful of too short a cycle as well. The newest addition here has been done every 4 weeks for 2 years and it’s destroyed his feet. Fixing him is going to be No Fun

Can you explain this a bit more, please? Unless the quality of the farrier work is poor, a shorter trim cycle tends to promote healthier, more balanced hooves than a long one. Having owned horses with REALLY good hooves in the past, I’ve always preferred a four week cycle for that reason.

[DJohn]

@Montanas_Girl

Can you explain this a bit more, please? Unless the quality of the farrier work is poor, a shorter trim cycle tends to promote healthier, more balanced hooves than a long one. Having owned horses with REALLY good hooves in the past, I’ve always preferred a four week cycle for that reason.

I’m with Montanas_Girl on this one! The longer the horses go in the summer (when on pasture, generally), the more frequently they need to be re-shod and trimmed. I never go more than 5 weeks in the summer as long feet will cause more problems than just lost shoes, it will also cause conflicting angles and improper tracking.

I’d get her on a 5 week summer cycle and a good hoof supplement (people use farriers formula here). My horse is a short-backed, long-legged TBx who forges when he walks and no shoeing is going to prevent it, that’s his conformation. He does occasionally pull a shoe but it is usually after a long heat spell and then rain (moisture + happy horses= lost shoes). He goes running around like a fool I’m sure, causing him to ping the shoes right off. Bell boots didn’t help my guy as he seemed to enjoy stepping on the boots (or he just didn’t like them). He is on 24/7 turnout so his feet see all weather, all the time.

[mdp9]

Ugh, I feel your pain. I have an OTTB with terrible feet, despite years of excellent nutrition and farrier work and supplements. In the summer (and competition season) he gets loose shoes every couple weeks or more.

Bell boots - try the Professional Choice (https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/professional-choice-quick-wrap-bell-boots-1574) boots. They have more weight to them and don’t flap around so much as rubber bell boots.

Different shoes - Glue ons stay on well, but IF they do get ripped off by your mare take the rest of the horse’s foot with it. My farrier switched to a unique setup with my horse a couple months ago- casting tape around the foot, and then nailing the shoe through the tape into the foot. This has been great. He only does this on the front feet, and unfortunately I wasn’t at the barn when he came out last to ask him why he can’t do that on the hinds. (Not asking indigently! I just mean to learn )

A 5 week cycle is a must for my horse. In the summer and during competition season we sometimes do 4 weeks.