I’ve read this thread. I wasn’t talking about this thread. Sorry, I should have specified. All over social media other pros and groupies are saying she doesn’t deserve it, she’s a true horseman, and the list goes on. I’m fully aware this thread has raked her over the coals as has horse and hound. Sorry for the confusion.
In that we agree.
As to Hwin, she had a year off, completed a Training HT this year and I hope that a good foundation is built for you can see that the horse has a big heart and is willing to try. I’d take that any day of the week and do nothing to diminish it.
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Thank you for the clarification – I truly thought he jumped.
To your other point though, Horses in the Morning recently interviewed an outrider at Rolex, and they said point-blank that their full job is crowd control - keeping people back off of the lines, keeping crossings clear, presumably guiding people as needed in extreme weather, etc. In order to have a directional effect on something, “controlled horses”/outriders would have to move at the pace of the thing they are trying to direct. For an outrider to move at the pace of a crowd is very doable. For an outrider to move through a crowd at the pace of a loose 4* horse sounds like a threat to everyone around them, even if they were trained. Right now, the crowds only have to look out for one flying object, which has a brain and will generally avoid running into stationary objects. To add a second horse and a rider at speed to that could be exponentially more catastrophic.
However, I agree that right now there doesn’t seem to be a more effective plan for loose horses than “let them go and hope they stop”. I don’t know if it’s possible for one to exist, but it’s certainly worth thinking and talking about if we can mitigate injury.
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This is quote from an interview of the course designer is exactly what I meant about riders needing to ride better so their horses finish well:
"Eric believes that many of the younger riders could learn a thing or two from watching Michael and Tim’s round, who made the time look easy.
“It’s interesting that the two guys who went the fastest looked the slowest,” he commented. “They never really kicked, but were always in rhythm and balance with the horse. They don’t scrub and move their arms, they sit in the middle of the horse and stay travelling and allow the horse to jump the fences.” "
Jimmy Wofford has always said that the best xc round at any level should look like a working hunter round. Smooth and without huge changes…horses staying in a rhythm and balance. This is true even when you do shorten and condense their stride for say a coffin. IT is also why super strong and bold xc horses are often the hardest horses to make time.
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I honestly don’t know what you COULD do-- I’m not sure if you’ve ever been in a situation with a panicking horse, but there really aren’t safe options. If you chase them, they run harder, and if there’s something in front of them they often jump it/ attempt to jump it or run through or into it. Riding them off is very, very dangerous for everyone involved, assuming it’s even possible (and that’s without the crowd factor.)
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This. I want to be appalled about the course design, but after going back and reading the commentary and watching the videos, I’m thinking the riders are much more to blame. The experienced riders seem to have handled the course well. The newbies, not so much. Stronger qualifiers before taking on Badminton? How do you have checks on riders that they are not overfacing their horses? Should there be a governing or nominating body where one applies and if found worthy is then deemed fit to continue? Just a thought. There seemed to be an awful lot of riders throwing their horses at Badminton who were overfaced and that’s disturbing.
I went to Rolex this year and didn’t see so much sketchy riding on cross country as there seemed to be at Badminton, but I did think there was a lot of bad riding in show jumping. The amount of face snatching going on and the resultant rails down really made an impression. Whereas the riders who were quieter in their technique seemed to fair much better. I did not watch the Badminton show jumping so don’t know if it was more of the same or better.
Over hill and dale surrounded by stupid rope lines and crowds full of children, dogs, and elderly people… yeah, running them down is more likely to result in 2 catastrophic horse injuries and possibly a dead outrider. And that’s assuming you can find someone crazy enough to try it that also has a mount fast enough and with enough endurance to catch a 4* fit horse bolting at top speed, possibly for miles and miles.
This isn’t an old cowboy western movie. Loose horses are a problem, yes, but I’m not really sure there’s a good solution to it. Especially at a place like Badminton. It’s HUGE. It was really an unfortunate accident, but I’m not sure it can be heaped into the FEI’s pile of responsibility.
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I really think this loose horse discussion needs to end. Have you seen the video? That horse was truly in a blind panic, as bad as it gets with a loose horse. Unfortunate and not that common imo.
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That’s my impression too. But I guess that leaves aside the discussion about whether the course punished the poor riding (i.e. the horses) more than it ought to have.
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I don’t know if I had a general impression of poor riding (I think I had the opposite impression–pretty damn impressive riding by and large)…but it wasn’t a good time to watch the errors have such a punishing result. There will ALWAYS be riding errors…even from the best of the best…so while I do not think courses should be designed to weakest competitor…I prefer there to be penalties incurred without other punishment. And for the record…I did not think this was HORRIBLE course design. Just not as good as the CD at Rolex…and that was just my armchair impression. Some of the bad jumps and falls were horses loosing footing…that is a rider/studs issue. But for course design…i did think some of the distances were off and not rewarding of the forward ride. And some of the jumps are the type that cause falls when a rider/horse misses. For example…had the “c” element coming out of the first water been a different type of fence, like a narrow angle brush fence (ala the last water at Rolex that ended many dreams) I think you would have seen just as many refusals but the ones that would have missed to that distance would have glanced off…not fallen down. And I would have still considered that a significant 4* questions…requiring a bold forward and honest horse who holds the line. But I’m NOT a CD…and I’m sure there will be tweaks made to the course next year. I don’t mind watching events where few make the time…I don’t even mind a few riders falling off (and not being hurt)…but no one likes to see horse falls.
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That we could ask the 7 horses that fell, that poor rider still in a hospital what happens if you make a mistake at Badminton vs Rolex.
I doubt anything will change and as much as I want to enjoy watching this sport, if this continues it becomes less fun. We have at least one example of how it could be done without taking it out on the horse, yet in the end there is still the pervasive sense that since it’s a risky sport, we just accept that horses will fall, get hurt. Don’t change for then it’s not Eventing anymore. All the while IOC churns out changes that do more to gut the heart of this sport than making a cross country course challenging, hard to finish double clear, yet supports the success of the horses welfare.
Yea Eventing :-/
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As to regarding ULRs as celebs, one man’s champ is another man’s chump. Way back when I was a wee child (ok, about 30 years ago), an ULR was driving drunk and killed 2 working students. And the eventing community had people lining up to pay his legal fees!! Really? He may have been a great rider, but a lousy human.
Having been at a horse show where a rider came off and the horse cantered away, passing me, I managed to catch up to him only after he broke to a trot. It was not easy at a trot. Forget doing it with a galloping horse. Just can’t happen.
I’d like to know what people’s reactions are to what was posted on EN this morning which addresses the raking over the coals of EW and how we should not pass judgment, blah, blah, blah. I feel that we NEED to pass judgment, somebody has to. Yes, she realizes she did wrong and apologized. Would that have happened had there not been a public lashing? Who knows. But just announcing that this behavior will not be tolerated by the masses is a good thing.
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Do you mean this post? Or is there another? http://eventingnation.com/tuesday-news-notes-from-cavalor-157/
Typical EN, dont ever question any rider who rides with the OCs… not allowed!
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Everyone loves being a social media darling, until they’re not. Nothing like having the point rammed home when you’ve made a mistake. But that was an ugly one in a risky sport. I’m glad she seems to have reflected and owned the mistake. I’m sure it’s made people who once admired her, lose respect, or at least some; and as it should. Hopefully going forward she will earn it back.
As to the course design punishing mistakes, yeah it did. Why is that even necessary? Does a CD actually have that conversation with himself/herself (if there even are any female course designers?), “Well if they choke at this jump, physics dictate they’re going ass over tea kettle and more fool them. It’s a 4* and all that goes with it.” [shrugs] Or are they just in denial about the potential collateral damage? On some level do they own any ensuing carnage? Has anyone interviewed one of these guys and asked those hard questions and the justification behind the engineering of it. And if so, the response? What’s the mindset that something you built killed a horse or a rider, or both? No, the CD didn’t make anyone do it but they do put the possibility into play. Gah.
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I absolutely do hope EW learns from this and moves forward to a successful future for herself and her equine partners. But I am also smh at the overwhelming positive social media response – I mean, you don’t have to go to her facebook page to vilify her, but come on, she just got sanctioned for horse abuse! Her father’s statement that he “had never been prouder” of her was hugely mystifying to me, as well. Really? She’s done some great things, like her Mustang Makeover win and so on, and I think she has been an inspiration in the past to a lot of people, and she’s had some nice competition results. But he’s never been prouder of her than when she officially abused her horse? A general statement of support for her would have been nice and expected from a parent… But “never prouder”? Come on. Perspective here.
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On the note of confusing social media things, Eventing Connect just shared this photo as one of the “Top 10 triumphant moments at Badminton 2017” (#3). See if you can spot my concern.
https://eventingconnect.today/2017/05/09/top-10-triumphant-moments-at-badminton-2017/
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Is this the stadium round people are talking about? I wanted to see it for myself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agBmn6F5124
XC round?
Scolding social media in the aggregate - what a waste of web space. Hundreds (thousands) of anonymous people, hiding behind screens, no personal consequences … people are what they are. I doubt one person read EN’s finger-shaking and made a personal change as a result. :o
Negative publicity - that used to be a common term before social media - has been an issue for as long as people have communicated with each other about other people. Yes, it can affect business, and there are ways to overcome that. And it’s something that everyone in the public eye has to manage at some point.
It’s about learning to deal with it on the receiving end. And the easiest way: unplug. Don’t read it. Keep being your authentic self, and the people who are the most beneficial will see past it. It’s amazing how well that works. :winkgrin:
Just to make sure we have as much info as possible, this is her comment on that video:
“It really was a miss communication where I’m asking her to wait and she is a little cocky and thinks she knows the right answer 
and taking off long. she was a bit strong and unfocused at times because of the crowd. But she is a gritty little thing and definitely has a 5th leg.”
At least for the first oxer, I do actually agree that it looked like she was asking her to wait.
