Badminton;

[Willesdon]

The horse fall at the bounce fence was because it’s rider was going too fast. There were subsequent problems there but nothing ugly. The positioning of the elements took controlled, balanced riding after the big efforts of the previous fences but they were below maximum height and their sloping profile was kind. I don’t recall anyone taking the black flag alternative.

As to watching compilations of falls, I consider it to be the equestrian equivalent of watching car crashes. I leave car safety to the engineers: I’m merely a driver.

[Saskatoonian]

Second this. While it can be educational to watch videos of falls or problems in general, the thrills and spills reels are entirely out of context. Watch the whole day of horses going through - I’ve watched most of it - and you’ll learn a lot more, including that there were not that many problems there. You’ll also see a lot of brilliant riding.

[Jealoushe]

Rider responsibility is still a thing we need to keep talking about. Even Tom said he messed up. We can’t blame it all on the fences.

However that being said I do agree, IF the fence can be frangible, it should be. This weekend there were many examples of frangibles saving the day. At the very least they save a horse from injuries.

I don’t mind the fall videos and agree they are educational for us who want to be safer but the way its put together like entertainment when the falls were horrific is too much for me.

[CleverUserName]

I’m of two minds on showing falls or not. I was watching part of it live, saw the fall, and assumed the worst since the fence was being taken out. Then, I had to get on with my day and as I had bought Badminton TV, I just stayed off any sites which would have a recap until I was able to finish watching.

Here’s where I think it gets interesting. I paid for the live stream…I don’t think the T and Cs said that the replay would be edited. Essentially, that’s not the ‘live stream replay’. But, how on earth could they phrase it: ‘stream will be edited for any tragedies, even if they turn out ok, and you may not have any idea what the announcers are talking about because we are going to cut that bit but we will also cut all the extraneous chat should there be a long hold on course’. Again, it’s nearly impossible to do. And, no, I’m not trying to be a Karen about paying for something and not getting it. I’m saying that it’s a different product than the live stream, and I think there’s a good reason for it.

Nicola’s fall was gut wrenching. The image stayed with me for days. I don’t know if we, the general public, should see it on a replay. Now, the French horse who fell at the last jump, who I think is ok, well, I didn’t see that because it was cut. From an educational side, I think that should be shown. I just don’t know how the videographers can paint a broad brush stroke of what should or should not be shown.

[Blugal]

The French horse fall at the last fence scared me because the horse looked like it had a seizure right after it fell.

I’ll never forget Elisa Wallace’s fall at the final fence after pushing her exhausted horse too far.

It is educational to me, although really ugly, as those images give me a huge lesson on “what if I’m hyped on adrenaline but my horse is tired at the end?” I’ll consider the quality of its canter and jump, see if I can put the horse together, and be wise about the distance I’m picking to the jump, or call it a day and revise my fitness regime.

Very tragically I learned a different lesson when Mia Ericksson died (2006, Galway Downs 3*-L, had 4 stops and continued). Two problems on course and I’m retiring - not my or my horse’s day.

I think our eventing culture has improved significantly in the past 20+ years on safety and horse welfare, and I’m grateful for that. We can learn from watching and also continue to strive to do better for the horses.

[AMWookey]

@Willesdon

As to watching compilations of falls, I consider it to be the equestrian equivalent of watching car crashes. I leave car safety to the engineers: I’m merely a driver.

I might be reading this the wrong way, but I’m assuming as just the rider you mean “I don’t need to watch them because I am not the course designer to need to understand what went wrong for safety reasons”

I see it both ways. And I don’t want to watch the falls, especially the neck crunching ones, but I do see a major argument for watching and learning from the falls, especially for these pros, or the ones who want to be pros. There is a lot to be learned by analyzing what went wrong. My spouse watches helicopter and plane crash videos (of course they break down what went wrong in them) for learning purposes, even though he isn’t a test pilot or mechanic or engineer. I’m sure racecar drivers do the same.

[Saskatoonian]

I haven’t been back to watch since the live stream, so didn’t realize they’d edited out the falls. I have no desire to see Nicola’s fall on a personal level, but I’m not sure it serves us well to edit them all out. There were several ugly falls where horses and riders got right up and walked away. That doesn’t detract from the fact of the fall or what we can learn about why it might have happened, but it gives perspective.

The grey who fell at the last fence, for example, looked tired coming into the arena. He even shuffled in a couple of trot steps IIRC, and I remember not liking it but thinking he’d be fine because Livio is so good. Adrenaline is a double edged sword for sure. Glad the horse was fine.

[Willesdon]

I think that we learn more by watching success, seeing how the combination is working to solve problems in partnership. There are enough stops and run outs and hair-raising “how the f+*k did they get over that” moments, even “easy” falls, without adding in the bad ones where people end up in hospital or horses are seriously injured. Maybe I’m just old, cynical and see an awful lot of eventing over a season and over the years. The feelings when a horse or rider is killed at ones fence, well, it is seared for ever into ones memory.

Course Designers are constantly observing, learning, training and speaking to each other. None of them want damaged horses, damaged people and “bad pictures” which is why there are not so many CDs, let alone 5* ones. All the fences are measured, photographed, analysed after each event. But it is still a lot more art than science. I’m a lowly ride: I doubt I could be a CD. Curiously, there are statistically more falls in FEI events than in national events at the same level, which suggests riders are doing something NQR.

Maxime Livio has caught my eye before: I’m not a fan.

[brindille]

“I’ll never forget Elisa Wallace’s fall at the final fence after pushing her exhausted horse too far.”

Elisa, Amy Tryon’s disgusting push on Le Samurai and Laine Asker’s ruthless riding that took her horse’s life at Rolex will always stick with me. I know Amy has passed away, but I have been scared to watch upper level evening live (even on livestream) since then because those incidents were so horrifying to see in real time. I still can’t support Elisa Wallace because I’m so disgusted with both the action and her response (Laine seemed quite remorseful and I believe her riding changed afterwards).

[skrosenthal]

It was quite stunning to see, linked in another thread here, a video from a Kentucky in the 90s where there was a horrible rotational…that they showed on repeat! And then the broadcast lingered while the rider was given medical attention. I think there’s a fine line between transparency and preserving both the sport’s image and the person’s privacy, but it is a little wild to see these things just get scrubbed from the replay.

[Sharon]

Maxime Livio got two yellow cards at Badminton for two separate incidents. they are up on the FEI site.

[Marigold]

@Sharon

Maxime Livio got two yellow cards at Badminton for two separate incidents. they are up on the FEI site.

Only one is a yellow card (two would be a suspension). The abuse of horse sanction is a recorded warning, not a yellow card.

[Saskatoonian]

For some reason I can’t access the FEI site: are both related to the last fence?

[Marigold]

@Saskatoonian

For some reason I can’t access the FEI site: are both related to the last fence?

No. The yellow card is “Incorrect behaviour / unhooking noseband before check by Stewards”.

[Saskatoonian]

Thanks. I wonder when he did that - I’d be hard pressed to object if it was while the horse was down, for example.

[Highflyer1]

Probably at dressage.

[Jealoushe]

I agree editing them out seems strange to me because then I feel like we are trying to hide things. I did notice when I watched old videos of B/B I would be surprised by the falls because I’m not used to seeing them in coverage anymore unless live feed.

I will say when Nicola fell I was already really upset about Tom and TDK, his round was just amazing and so the excitement changed to horror when they fell. I was still in shock of that when she fell and it sent me over the edge I cried for a good few minutes and took my dogs outside for some air. I can’t imagine how her connections felt. I think Pippa was a bit affected by it.

[Jealoushe]

Me either. Its interesting too that she has a large following on Horse Twitter who crucified Maxim over Badminton but then go on and praise her all the time. Kind of hypocritical.

@sharon thanks for the tip.

[Jealoushe]

Molly Summerland did in fact get a Yellow Card for use of whip at Badminton.

[kmwines01]

I believe it was dressage. I remember the commentators saying something about it at the time but didn’t remember which rider.