Barisone assessment

[roseymare]

I’m pretty sure it is going to be the losing money angle since it is being brought up ad nauseum now.

[ohnoO]

@ekat

@Sdel

Well, since we are back to MB’s personal life and 48 hours, I’ll just put this one here…it clears up a lot.

I sincerely hope it’s better than the bombshells I kept waiting for during the trial.

Maybe it’s two shovels in the truck?

[ekat]

@ohnoO

Maybe it’s two shovels in the truck?

Good lord, what if there’s an actual pitchfork too?

[hut-ho78]

@CanteringCarrot

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Post 3376 arrived at a conclusion that ignored the part where MB said he couldn’t sleep for trying to keep up with expenses. The information within the post contradicted the written conclusion.

It does indicate he had cash flow problems as did I think the testimony of at least one of the mental health professionals who said he brought her back to New Jersey in 2019 because he needed the money.

Nope, you’re wrong. Post 3376 contains the transcript from the trial. “Cash flow problems” was never spoken in testimony. It was said MB had to be careful with his money and that has been wildly misinterpreted since.

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/ActiveShooterPaper2018.pdf

It’s adorable when you think everyone doesn’t already know what pushed MB over the edge - LK.

He was buried under stress. Divorce. New relationship with problems. Cash flow worries. Loss of income and business manager (wife). Ice busted pipes and damage to house. Bouts of depression. 8-9 past concussions plus being in his mid-fifties. Without those issues, with his experience and celebrated charm, he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business. This was a situation that did not have to end the way it did. Tragically.

I wish them all well.

What does “being in his mid-fifties” mean? Or why does it matter much? I have not reached that age yet. Does something crazy happen when you do?

Besides physical aging issues-menopause with body parts drying out, possible ER with men, arthritis, hardening of the arteries, polyps, greater risk of cancer, high blood pressure, cholesterol, greater maintaining weight, welcome to cataracts, feeling one is no longer invincible, etc.,

it is a time of reckoning, realization of goals attained and unattainable, career limitations, relationships, opportunities. It can be weird when aging men in power chase young women trying to feel young. It’s not all bad news, it can be a time of self acceptance, greater understanding and maturity, no more cramps and even migraines may go away or diminish. One learns oneself.

Some people are old at 50. Some stay young. Attitude helps. Everyone at 50 knows it even if it doesn’t show. It’s the extra creakiness upon riding, the dull aches when you try to sleep. Colonoscopies are no longer avoidable.

Some people sail by the 50s and don’t notice.

[trubandloki]

@Seeker1

It is me and only me. Kirby kanarek

@hut-ho78

Besides physical aging issues-menopause with body parts drying out, possible ER with men, arthritis, hardening of the arteries, polyps, greater risk of cancer, high blood pressure, cholesterol, greater maintaining weight, welcome to cataracts, feeling one is no longer invincible, etc.,

it is a time of reckoning, realization of goals attained and unattainable, career limitations, relationships, opportunities. It can be weird when aging men in power chase young women trying to feel young. It’s not all bad news, it can be a time of self acceptance, greater understanding and maturity, no more cramps and even migraines may go away or diminish. One learns oneself.

Some people are old at 50. Some stay young. Attitude helps. Everyone at 50 knows it even if it doesn’t show. It’s the extra creakiness upon riding, the dull aches when you try to sleep. Colonoscopies are no longer avoidable.

Some people sail by the 50s and don’t notice.

.

[TBLover]

I would suggest that when someone says something like “How do I keep this going? I can’t sleep. I have to be aware,” its not that the person is saying literally that they “can’t sleep”, but more along the line of “I can’t fall asleep at the wheel”: i.e., they have to always pay attention to things…

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

I understand that you did not say MB harassed her. I said he harassed her. She also harassed him. That was the tragic cycle of reciprocal bullying and harassment that ended so badly

I’m still catching up on this thread, but am quoting this now simply to say that I have never seen evidence of anything resembling “reciprocal bullying.”

There was clearly tension between multiple parties at Hawthorne Hill. By mid July, LK clearly had begun listening to private conversations as a result of the recording devices she had placed, and she had learned that others REALLY didn’t like her, and wanted her gone.

But that’s not the same thing as “bullying.”

Reciprocal, tit for tat bullying and harassment between the sides is my basic view of the tragedy.

If you view it as all harassment and no bullying, that’s fine.

What do you think MB meant in the July 13 text when he said that he would make their lives so miserable they would be begging to leave?

When I first listened to his 911 calls, I was puzzled as to why someone would call 911 to report that a bizarre FB post had been posted the previous night, or that his clients were refusing to sign a document. He called police because they were in the barn after 9:00 to wrap legs.

I now think the calls were designed to harass and intimidate them. Possibly it was just a show to convince MHG that he was actually trying to get them out “by making them miserable”. He reciprocated on the call to SS. He reached out to anyone who had had a SM feud with LK. He compiled a 750 page complaint to get her banned from USEF. Told the farrier not to shoe her horses.

Since the recording operation was concealed, that was not designed to harass him, but understandably angered him when it was discovered.

I’ve said for months that at any time, either side had multiple opportunities to deescalate, but each side escalated instead.

That’s why MHGs text of Aug 3 is crucial- he’s called the police several times on them, which I interpret as intimidation and harassment, but no one has told them to leave. It’s established that the demand to vacate was not issued until August 5 or 6. Everybody (except me) assumes they were verbally and informally told to leave well prior to Aug 3. Maybe they were. But it has not been established that they were asked to leave.

Of course the idea that MB wanted them gone and would omit to ask them to leave but chose instead to “make their life miserable” so they “would beg to leave” just defies logic, right? It makes no sense. It’s just inconceivable that he would not have asked them to leave.

Well, it’s inconceivable that he would drive over to their residence and shoot her, as has been established in a court of law. We now understand that he was delusional and legally insane, which excuses him from criminal responsibility for the shooting.

If the insanity and delusions explain the inexplicable shooting, it can also explain why he, inexplicably, omitted to simply tell her to leave before Aug 5 or 6.

On “others really wanted her gone”, if it’s true that JK and Tarshis had been negotiating a new arrangement during that last week, that can also be interpreted as her having decided it was time to go, based on her own preferences, and negotiating the terms. I’ve always said that the sloppy financial deals complicated a final reckoning of exactly what each party owed the other.

Seeker is now saying that JK was not involved in these negotiations, and it’s true that JK did not testify. I had been assuming JK had been involved in the Tarshis negotiations, but now I have doubts, given what Seeker said.

Lots of people here cheered the verdict of NGRI.

I have to wonder if people think he was never insane at all, and his brilliant lawyer established the insanity finding to get him acquitted, or whether people think he was delusional for a 12 hour period in which he shot her, but was completely sane and rational for all of July through the morning of Aug 7.

I think his behavior in those final weeks is evidence of delusion at that time. That makes what is otherwise inconceivable - that he omitted to ask her to leave- conceivable to me. Just my opinion.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@hut-ho78

Besides physical aging issues-menopause with body parts drying out, possible ER with men, arthritis, hardening of the arteries, polyps, greater risk of cancer, high blood pressure, cholesterol, greater maintaining weight, welcome to cataracts, feeling one is no longer invincible, etc.,

it is a time of reckoning, realization of goals attained and unattainable, career limitations, relationships, opportunities. It can be weird when aging men in power chase young women trying to feel young. It’s not all bad news, it can be a time of self acceptance, greater understanding and maturity, no more cramps and even migraines may go away or diminish. One learns oneself.

Some people are old at 50. Some stay young. Attitude helps. Everyone at 50 knows it even if it doesn’t show. It’s the extra creakiness upon riding, the dull aches when you try to sleep. Colonoscopies are no longer avoidable.

Some people sail by the 50s and don’t notice.

This is a pretty dramatic description of what reaching your 50’s is like.

[Knights_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@CurrentlyHorseless

I understand that you did not say MB harassed her. I said he harassed her. She also harassed him. That was the tragic cycle of reciprocal bullying and harassment that ended so badly

I’m still catching up on this thread, but am quoting this now simply to say that I have never seen evidence of anything resembling “reciprocal bullying.”

There was clearly tension between multiple parties at Hawthorne Hill. By mid July, LK clearly had begun listening to private conversations as a result of the recording devices she had placed, and she had learned that others REALLY didn’t like her, and wanted her gone.

But that’s not the same thing as “bullying.”

Reciprocal, tit for tat bullying and harassment between the sides is my basic view of the tragedy.

If you view it as all harassment and no bullying, that’s fine.

What do you think MB meant in the July 13 text when he said that he would make their lives so miserable they would be begging to leave?

When I first listened to his 911 calls, I was puzzled as to why someone would call 911 to report that a bizarre FB post had been posted the previous night, or that his clients were refusing to sign a document. He called police because they were in the barn after 9:00 to wrap legs.

I now think the calls were designed to harass and intimidate them. Possibly it was just a show to convince MHG that he was actually trying to get them out “by making them miserable”. He reciprocated on the call to SS. He reached out to anyone who had had a SM feud with LK. He compiled a 750 page complaint to get her banned from USEF. Told the farrier not to shoe her horses.

Since the recording operation was concealed, that was not designed to harass him, but understandably angered him when it was discovered.

I’ve said for months that at any time, either side had multiple opportunities to deescalate, but each side escalated instead.

That’s why MHGs text of Aug 3 is crucial- he’s called the police several times on them, which I interpret as intimidation and harassment, but no one has told them to leave. It’s established that the demand to vacate was not issued until August 5 or 6. Everybody (except me) assumes they were verbally and informally told to leave well prior to Aug 3. Maybe they were. But it has not been established that they were asked to leave.

Of course the idea that MB wanted them gone and would omit to ask them to leave but chose instead to “make their life miserable” so they “would beg to leave” just defies logic, right? It makes no sense. It’s just inconceivable that he would not have asked them to leave.

Well, it’s inconceivable that he would drive over to their residence and shoot her, as has been established in a court of law. We now understand that he was delusional and legally insane, which excuses him from criminal responsibility for the shooting.

If the insanity and delusions explain the inexplicable shooting, it can also explain why he, inexplicably, omitted to simply tell her to leave before Aug 5 or 6.

On “others really wanted her gone”, if it’s true that JK and Tarshis had been negotiating a new arrangement during that last week, that can also be interpreted as her having decided it was time to go, based on her own preferences, and negotiating the terms. I’ve always said that the sloppy financial deals complicated a final reckoning of exactly what each party owed the other.

Seeker is now saying that JK was not involved in these negotiations, and it’s true that JK did not testify. I had been assuming JK had been involved in the Tarshis negotiations, but now I have doubts, given what Seeker said.

Lots of people here cheered the verdict of NGRI.

I have to wonder if people think he was never insane at all, and his brilliant lawyer established the insanity finding to get him acquitted, or whether people think he was delusional for a 12 hour period in which he shot her, but was completely sane and rational for all of July through the morning of Aug 7.

I think his behavior in those final weeks is evidence of delusion at that time. That makes what is otherwise inconceivable - that he omitted to ask her to leave- conceivable to me. Just my opinion.

If only we were surprised.

[hut-ho78]

@CanteringCarrot

@hut-ho78

Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

You have low standards when it comes to the police and them “doing well” and we’ve established that before. I will agree that no lives were lost that day, and that was an example of good work.

“No one died” doesn’t excuse poor crime scene processing though. You cannot use “the rain” as an excuse for everything or that they were busy saving lives (still time to process things after the victims were removed from the scene). Yes, those excuses might work for a few things, maybe, but there were some inadequacies, IMO.

Please read the article for your own edification and stop making comments about my standards. The mods don’t like it when we attack each other.

[iridedressage]

@CanteringCarrot

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Post 3376 arrived at a conclusion that ignored the part where MB said he couldn’t sleep for trying to keep up with expenses. The information within the post contradicted the written conclusion.

It does indicate he had cash flow problems as did I think the testimony of at least one of the mental health professionals who said he brought her back to New Jersey in 2019 because he needed the money.

Nope, you’re wrong. Post 3376 contains the transcript from the trial. “Cash flow problems” was never spoken in testimony. It was said MB had to be careful with his money and that has been wildly misinterpreted since.

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/ActiveShooterPaper2018.pdf

It’s adorable when you think everyone doesn’t already know what pushed MB over the edge - LK.

He was buried under stress. Divorce. New relationship with problems. Cash flow worries. Loss of income and business manager (wife). Ice busted pipes and damage to house. Bouts of depression. 8-9 past concussions plus being in his mid-fifties. Without those issues, with his experience and celebrated charm, he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business. This was a situation that did not have to end the way it did. Tragically.

I wish them all well.

What does “being in his mid-fifties” mean? Or why does it matter much? I have not reached that age yet. Does something crazy happen when you do?

I have reached that age and I am no more crazy than I was when I was younger!! And physically, as with most horse people in this age range, I’m still rocking it! CH is spewing ageism at its finest and I for one find it extremely insulting.

[hut-ho78]

@trubandloki

@CanteringCarrot

What does “being in his mid-fifties” mean? Or why does it matter much? I have not reached that age yet. Does something crazy happen when you do?

Oh no. I am there and I am not sure what they mean, like it is some huge time in life for something.

At the least, one usually has one’s first colonoscopy. Please see @Fiesta01’s post above.

[hut-ho78]

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Post 3376 arrived at a conclusion that ignored the part where MB said he couldn’t sleep for trying to keep up with expenses. The information within the post contradicted the written conclusion.

It does indicate he had cash flow problems as did I think the testimony of at least one of the mental health professionals who said he brought her back to New Jersey in 2019 because he needed the money.

Nope, you’re wrong. Post 3376 contains the transcript from the trial. “Cash flow problems” was never spoken in testimony. It was said MB had to be careful with his money and that has been wildly misinterpreted since.

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/ActiveShooterPaper2018.pdf

It’s adorable when you think everyone doesn’t already know what pushed MB over the edge - LK.

He was buried under stress. Divorce. New relationship with problems. Cash flow worries. Loss of income and business manager (wife). Ice busted pipes and damage to house. Bouts of depression. 8-9 past concussions plus being in his mid-fifties. Without those issues, with his experience and celebrated charm, he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business. This was a situation that did not have to end the way it did. Tragically.

I wish them all well.

I disagree. I wouldn’t wish LK on anyone. Everyone totally gets MB getting fried and that’s why the verdict happened that way.

The verdict had nothing to do with what caused the delusion.

[hut-ho78]

@DownYonder

@Seeker1

It was proven he shot her due to insanity

No, the jury agreed that she was shot in an altercation that involved MB, but that he had no criminal intent to shoot her because he was insane at the time.

It is interesting that your attorney husband hasn’t explained the difference between those two interpretations. Or maybe he has explained it but you and DD aren’t capable of understanding it.

Correction. The verdict proved he shot her, not that she was shot. He is not criminally liable because he was insane at the time. He still has civil restrictions as he has shown he is a threat to himself and others. When he no longer is as established by a state psychiatrist whose recommendation is accepted by a judge, then he will be released from some or all restrictions. I think he still will not be able to own a firearm having been institutionalized.

[trubandloki]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Reciprocal, tit for tat bullying and harassment between the sides is my basic view of the tragedy.

If you view it as all harassment and no bullying, that’s fine.

What do you think MB meant in the July 13 text when he said that he would make their lives so miserable they would be begging to leave?

When I first listened to his 911 calls, I was puzzled as to why someone would call 911 to report that a bizarre FB post had been posted the previous night, or that his clients were refusing to sign a document. He called police because they were in the barn after 9:00 to wrap legs.

I now think the calls were designed to harass and intimidate them. Possibly it was just a show to convince MHG that he was actually trying to get them out “by making them miserable”. He reciprocated on the call to SS. He reached out to anyone who had had a SM feud with LK. He compiled a 750 page complaint to get her banned from USEF. Told the farrier not to shoe her horses.

Since the recording operation was concealed, that was not designed to harass him, but understandably angered him when it was discovered.

I’ve said for months that at any time, either side had multiple opportunities to deescalate, but each side escalated instead.

That’s why MHGs text of Aug 3 is crucial- he’s called the police several times on them, which I interpret as intimidation and harassment, but no one has told them to leave. It’s established that the demand to vacate was not issued until August 5 or 6. Everybody (except me) assumes they were verbally and informally told to leave well prior to Aug 3. Maybe they were. But it has not been established that they were asked to leave.

Of course the idea that MB wanted them gone and would omit to ask them to leave but chose instead to “make their life miserable” so they “would beg to leave” just defies logic, right? It makes no sense. It’s just inconceivable that he would not have asked them to leave.

Well, it’s inconceivable that he would drive over to their residence and shoot her, as has been established in a court of law. We now understand that he was delusional and legally insane, which excuses him from criminal responsibility for the shooting.

If the insanity and delusions explain the inexplicable shooting, it can also explain why he, inexplicably, omitted to simply tell her to leave before Aug 5 or 6.

On “others really wanted her gone”, if it’s true that JK and Tarshis had been negotiating a new arrangement during that last week, that can also be interpreted as her having decided it was time to go, based on her own preferences, and negotiating the terms. I’ve always said that the sloppy financial deals complicated a final reckoning of exactly what each party owed the other.

Seeker is now saying that JK was not involved in these negotiations, and it’s true that JK did not testify. I had been assuming JK had been involved in the Tarshis negotiations, but now I have doubts, given what Seeker said.

Lots of people here cheered the verdict of NGRI.

I have to wonder if people think he was never insane at all, and his brilliant lawyer established the insanity finding to get him acquitted, or whether people think he was delusional for a 12 hour period in which he shot her, but was completely sane and rational for all of July through the morning of Aug 7.

I think his behavior in those final weeks is evidence of delusion at that time. That makes what is otherwise inconceivable - that he omitted to ask her to leave- conceivable to me. Just my opinion.

@hut-ho78

Please read the article for your own edification and stop making comments about my standards. The mods don’t like it when we attack each other.

@hut-ho78

At the least, one usually has one’s first colonoscopy. Please see @Fiesta01’s post above.

@hut-ho78

The verdict had nothing to do with what caused the delusion.

@hut-ho78

Correction. The verdict proved he shot her, not that she was shot. He is not criminally liable because he was insane at the time. He still has civil restrictions as he has shown he is a threat to himself and others. When he no longer is as established by a state psychiatrist whose recommendation is accepted by a judge, then he will be released from some or all restrictions. I think he still will not be able to own a firearm having been institutionalized.

.

[hut-ho78]

@CanteringCarrot

@Sdel

@FitzE

Bilinkas was starting to explore that as she said it’s ‘my money’ but her father writes the cheques (huh?). He was starting down the road of exploring where that money comes from (which prompted the answer about ‘I don’t know, the bank?’ which was especially strange if it is her money and not her father’s - how could she not know where it comes from?). I assume this line of questioning will come up again in the civil case but it won’t be cut off by the judge.

Both answers that are completely recognizable as evasive. There are really no good reasons to be evasive about where your money comes from.

It was weird and kind of rude, really.

I don’t know what’s wrong with saying, “the money comes from my father, it is his income that funds my hobby, house, animals, etc. He has been a successful (whatever his profession is) for many years.”

I mean, come on, you’re not 5 years old and neither is the jury. “The bank” is just a rude wiseass answer.

The question was poorly worded. How does he get his money as opposed to earn.

[BatCoach]

She truly has not changed one iota. Her posting style is almost comical:

No Paragraphs- cuz who needs em?
ALL CAPS -Cuz she wants to!
Lots of “ “ - cuz sarcasm
Some form of “I don’t GAF about your opinion”
And always, always say something snide about the lack of another poster’s intelligence.

[iridedressage]

@hut-ho78

@trubandloki

@CanteringCarrot

What does “being in his mid-fifties” mean? Or why does it matter much? I have not reached that age yet. Does something crazy happen when you do?

Oh no. I am there and I am not sure what they mean, like it is some huge time in life for something.

At the least, one usually has one’s first colonoscopy. Please see @Fiesta01’s post above.

And women have mammograms starting when they’re younger. What’s your point?

[Angela_Freda]

@FitzE

It will be interesting to see how 48 Hours weaves it all together.

It worries me that the sheer volume of it will mean it can’t fully be portrayed, and won’t be clear.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@DownYonder

@FitzE

People, mostly LK, have lobbed ideas about defamation for the last 2+ years. This accusation by the Seeker1 account is the first time I’ve seen something I’d actually worry about wrt defamation claims. She’s accusing a legal professional of blatant perjury AND it would appear, the prosecutor of such dereliction of duty that he failed to simply question this liar and expose the perjury during the trial.

This is a bit stunning actually.

I would think that Bilinkas would find it very interesting that someone purporting to be a member of Team Kanarek has insinuated that he (Bilinkas) deliberately ignored “perjury” committed by a witness in a criminal trial.

And I guess since Schellhorn didn’t object, he was also complicit in allowing the perjurious testimony to be entered into the record, and the judge was also complicit in allowing the jury to take that testimony into consideration during their deliberations.

Just wow, wow, wow.

Has Seeker1 accused anyone of “blatant perjury”. or of “perjury” of any form? I haven’t seen Seeker use the word perjury.

As I recall Seeker said something about statements that JK was involved in the negotiations was, what was the technical term, “BS”.

I recall a nice explanation of perjury provided by one of the lawyers (maybe Ekat), that said that simply stating under oath something factually untrue did not necessarily constitute perjury. Instead it mattered whether the untrue aspect was or wasn’t material to the issue.

There was something about a man cheating on his wife and saying under oath he was at the grocery store instead at his lover’s house to avoid exposing the affair. If his lying about being “at the grocery store” was immaterial to what he has testifying about, it was not perjury. But my memory is not perfect.

Did Seeker use the word perjury? Blatant perjury? Is that even a thing?