Barisone assessment

[Ghazzu]

@TBLover

more along the line of “I can’t fall asleep at the wheel”: i.e., they have to always pay attention to things…

That was my take on it, as well.

[hut-ho78]

@ekat

Couple points of interest worth mentioning.

The text where MB talks about being “aware” of his bills is dated November 2018.

The text about the divorce settlement is dated March 2019.

If MB was having any kind of cash flow crisis in July/August 2019, it is reasonable to assume that the prosecution would have found texts/emails/any kind of evidence closer in time to the incident to make it relevant. But nothing was introduced. Just one random text that never says he can’t actually pay those bills. He says,“how do you think I keep this going?. I can’t sleep. I have to be aware.” How do you think I keep this going implies he actually is keeping things going, which is the opposite of a cash flow problem that he never states in NOVEMBER 2018, or any evidence was produced that shows any time forward.

Furthermore, in March 2019, when the divorce was settled, his text doesn’t go on to say How am I going to pay it, or anything. Just, hard to feel good. And it’s not like he wrote a check that day.

So, if the cash flow problems were so bad, why isn’t there one single text between NOVEMBER 2018 and the shooting where he brings that up introduced into evidence?

MHG testified her relationship began with MB in 2015. By July 2019, 4 years later, it’s a stretch to call it a new relationship.

Good to see we’re back to worrying about MB’s ancient age status though.

What is your source for saying there is not a single text in that time period? Did you or do you have access to all of the texts? Just a few were presented in court but there may have been many more. The prosecutor made what seemed like an error later with the shooting social media posts that Dr Simring used for his evaluation. When he tried to talk about more the two he entered into evidence the judge stopped him. Perhaps he has a pattern of trying to only introducing enough to make his point.

[eggbutt]

@hut-ho78

he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business.

Okay, I’ll ask this again, do you personally know LK? Have you personally dealt with her or been the subject of her wrath and bullying? Do you personally know anyone who had? If not, take a seat. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

The question was poorly worded. How does he get his money as opposed to earn.

Better question, how does SHE get her money as opposed to earn it.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Has Seeker1 accused anyone of “blatant perjury”. or of “perjury” of any form? I haven’t seen Seeker use the word perjury.

As I recall Seeker said something about statements that JK was involved in the negotiations was, what was the technical term, “BS”.

I recall a nice explanation of perjury provided by one of the lawyers (maybe Ekat), that said that simply stating under oath something factually untrue did not necessarily constitute perjury. Instead it mattered whether the untrue aspect was or wasn’t material to the issue.

There was something about a man cheating on his wife and saying under oath he was at the grocery store instead at his lover’s house to avoid exposing the affair. If his lying about being “at the grocery store” was immaterial to what he has testifying about, it was not perjury. But my memory is not perfect.

Did Seeker use the word perjury? Blatant perjury? Is that even a thing?

@hut-ho78

What is your source for saying there is not a single text in that time period? Did you or do you have access to all of the texts? Just a few were presented in court but there may have been many more. The prosecutor made what seemed like an error later with the shooting social media posts that Dr Simring used for his evaluation. When he tried to talk about more the two he entered into evidence the judge stopped him. Perhaps he has a pattern of trying to only introducing enough to make his point.

.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@DownYonder

I would think that Bilinkas would find it very interesting that someone purporting to be a member of Team Kanarek has insinuated that he (Bilinkas) deliberately ignored “perjury” committed by a witness in a criminal trial.

Worse - the implication is that Mr Bilinkas suborned perjury, while another attorney also put his bar license on the line to commit it. And a third attorney, their attorney no less, furthered the perjury by also testifying about negotiations.

Plus, you’re right about Mr Schellhorn allowing it by not calling any witnesses to dispel all this perjury.

.

[ekat]

@hut-ho78

What is your source for saying there is not a single text in that time period? Did you or do you have access to all of the texts? Just a few were presented in court but there may have been many more. The prosecutor made what seemed like an error later with the shooting social media posts that Dr Simring used for his evaluation. When he tried to talk about more the two he entered into evidence the judge stopped him. Perhaps he has a pattern of trying to only introducing enough to make his point.

Complete sentences are your friend here.

“So, if the cash flow problems were so bad, why isn’t there one single text between NOVEMBER 2018 and the shooting where he brings that up introduced into evidence?”

If that’s his pattern, it’s a poor one because basic trial strategy is to introduce the best, closest in time evidence.

[hut-ho78]

@TBLover

I would suggest that when someone says something like “How do I keep this going? I can’t sleep. I have to be aware,” its not that the person is saying literally that they “can’t sleep”, but more along the line of “I can’t fall asleep at the wheel”: i.e., they have to always pay attention to things…

Yes. Very possible.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@Sdel

Well, since we are back to MB’s personal life and 48 hours, I’ll just put this one here…it clears up a lot.

I sincerely hope it’s better than the bombshells I kept waiting for during the trial.

.

[hut-ho78]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@hut-ho78

Besides physical aging issues-menopause with body parts drying out, possible ER with men, arthritis, hardening of the arteries, polyps, greater risk of cancer, high blood pressure, cholesterol, greater maintaining weight, welcome to cataracts, feeling one is no longer invincible, etc.,

it is a time of reckoning, realization of goals attained and unattainable, career limitations, relationships, opportunities. It can be weird when aging men in power chase young women trying to feel young. It’s not all bad news, it can be a time of self acceptance, greater understanding and maturity, no more cramps and even migraines may go away or diminish. One learns oneself.

Some people are old at 50. Some stay young. Attitude helps. Everyone at 50 knows it even if it doesn’t show. It’s the extra creakiness upon riding, the dull aches when you try to sleep. Colonoscopies are no longer avoidable.

Some people sail by the 50s and don’t notice.

This is a pretty dramatic description of what reaching your 50’s is like.

It doesn’t have to be but yeah physicals get more complex as time goes by. Look at reunions. Some people stay youthful and full of vitality and some are not recognizable. Sometimes it is self inflicted early aging but sometimes it just happens. Usually there is something though if it’s just a little arthritis in an old injury.

[Angela_Freda]

@trubandloki

But think about it, in my opinion this is how this family gets their way time and time again. Threaten until they give in. I am guessing that this was how LK treated MB once she was there and that explains why some of the situations were what they were (like why LK was allowed to move north with them and move into the house that they then could not get her out of). To most people it is easier to just shrug and give in when someone is once again threatening you with a lawsuit over nothing. (Again, this is just my opinion.)

When you realize how very, very low they will go it can be smarter to back away slowly. Alas that can also be fuel that makes them worse.
I’m not shocked that the various involved parties didn’t know what to do, how to safely get out of this dysfunctional, abusive, opportunistic, volatile situation.

.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@ekat

@ohnoO

Maybe it’s two shovels in the truck?

Good lord, what if there’s an actual pitchfork too?

.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Reciprocal, tit for tat bullying and harassment between the sides is my basic view of the tragedy.

If you view it as all harassment and no bullying, that’s fine.

I view it as neither harassment nor bullying

What do you think MB meant in the July 13 text when he said that he would make their lives so miserable they would be begging to leave?

I think MB meant he wanted to avoid a messy and combative eviction procedure. He wanted to avoid formally kicking her out as a boarder. Perhaps because both things would have certain problematic future implications for LK. For instance, if he formally kicked her out as a boarder and client, if future barns called to ask for references, he would be professionally obligated to disclose this. It would make things hard for LK to find places to train and board. If she voluntarily chose to leave… when hypothetical future trainers or boarding barns called and asked if there were issues, MB could be noncommittal if that seemed wise, and simply say that LK chose to move on. Honestly… I have ALWAYS thought that MB was actually trying to do LK a favor by trying to get her to ‘self select’ and just leave, and LK comes off as an ignorant petulant child in terms of how she (and her supporters) still fail to grasp the full implications. I think MBs text meant he was going to get everyone at the farm to be cold as ice, and do NOTHING extra for her or her horses… which is often an effective way of getting unwanted people to choose to leave a barn or training relationship. But this is not the same thing as harassment or bullying

When I first listened to his 911 calls, I was puzzled as to why someone would call 911 to report that a bizarre FB post had been posted the previous night, or that his clients were refusing to sign a document. He called police because they were in the barn after 9:00 to wrap legs.

I think he was terrified by her bizarre FB rant. Maybe because of his delusional disorder. Maybe because she is a legitimately extreme person, and some folks do find her frightening and unstable. He legitimately was experiencing fear about what she might be doing in the barn at night. So he called 911. Is it dramatic and extreme? Maybe. We have the benefit of hindsight though

I now think the calls were designed to harass and intimidate them. Possibly it was just a show to convince MHG that he was actually trying to get them out “by making them miserable”. He reciprocated on the call to SS. He reached out to anyone who had had a SM feud with LK. He compiled a 750 page complaint to get her banned from USEF. Told the farrier not to shoe her horses.

I think he called 911 because he was legitimately in a panicked state about how LK and RGs behavior might escalate. Maybe the panic was a result of his worsening delusional disorder and underlying anxiety and depression issues. But the 911 calls weren’t a calculated harassment campaign, in my opinion. I think the complaint that MB and MHG made to SS regarding LK was 100% legitimate. She had displayed aggressive conduct (made statements on social media) concerning MHGs children. LK has a lengthy arrest record. C’mon. It’s a legit complaint. Not part of a harassment campaign. And he might have told the farrier not to shoe her horses that day because ED (the lawyer hired by JK) had literally just arranged for LK and all her horses to leave the farm in the next few days.

Since the recording operation was concealed, that was not designed to harass him, but understandably angered him when it was discovered.

I call COMPLETE BS on this. The recording operation was MOST CERTAINLY designed to harass him. She was routinely posting details of his recorded private conversations with 3rd parties on social media in a cryptic manner, for weeks leading up to the shooting. The whole point of this behavior was to intimidate him, make him feel paranoid, etc. It’s obvious harassment.

I’ve said for months that at any time, either side had multiple opportunities to deescalate, but each side escalated instead.

I suppose MB could have deescalated and just allowed LK to continue to stay at his farm, while she continues to create havoc and be a total PITA. Or… he could have escalated and just gone through an attorney and done a formal eviction. If he had gone with option #2… let’s be honest… LK still would have pitched a fit and caused more issues. LK was NEVER going to leave in a dignified, mature, and normal manner. That much is obvious.

That’s why MHGs text of Aug 3 is crucial- he’s called the police several times on them, which I interpret as intimidation and harassment, but no one has told them to leave. It’s established that the demand to vacate was not issued until August 5 or 6. Everybody (except me) assumes they were verbally and informally told to leave well prior to Aug 3. Maybe they were. But it has not been established that they were asked to leave.

I still disagree that calling the police was calculated harassment. He was panicking and freaking out, and desperately wanted them to go. I think you are deliberately ignoring that.

Of course the idea that MB wanted them gone and would omit to ask them to leave but chose instead to “make their life miserable” so they “would beg to leave” just defies logic, right? It makes no sense. It’s just inconceivable that he would not have asked them to leave.

Again… I disagree. I think that as of July 2019, the strategy on MBs part to make LK miserable and just decide on her own to go elsewhere with RG and her horses - well - That was to LKs long term benefit. Seriously. She just wasn’t mature enough to think this all the way through, and take the exit ramp in a dignified and mature manner.

Well, it’s inconceivable that he would drive over to their residence and shoot her, as has been established in a court of law. We now understand that he was delusional and legally insane, which excuses him from criminal responsibility for the shooting.

If the insanity and delusions explain the inexplicable shooting, it can also explain why he, inexplicably, omitted to simply tell her to leave before Aug 5 or 6.

On “others really wanted her gone”, if it’s true that JK and Tarshis had been negotiating a new arrangement during that last week, that can also be interpreted as her having decided it was time to go, based on her own preferences, and negotiating the terms. I’ve always said that the sloppy financial deals complicated a final reckoning of exactly what each party owed the other.

I’ve always said that RG was a complete grifter, and part of ‘the plan’ was to use the lack of formal documentation as a way to shake down MB for cash on their way out. It’s pretty obvious to me. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on how we see this one.

Seeker is now saying that JK was not involved in these negotiations, and it’s true that JK did not testify. I had been assuming JK had been involved in the Tarshis negotiations, but now I have doubts, given what Seeker said.

So I guess this means Seeker is de facto accusing ED of lying on the stand as well? That’s interesting.

Lots of people here cheered the verdict of NGRI.

I have to wonder if people think he was never insane at all, and his brilliant lawyer established the insanity finding to get him acquitted, or whether people think he was delusional for a 12 hour period in which he shot her, but was completely sane and rational for all of July through the morning of Aug 7.

I think his behavior in those final weeks is evidence of delusion at that time. That makes what is otherwise inconceivable - that he omitted to ask her to leave- conceivable to me. Just my opinion.

Huh. So you think he was insane in those final weeks… but you also keep trying to say that his desperate 911 calls are evidence of a calculated harassment campaign. Frankly… I don’t think those two positions work together. It seems to me that you don’t think he was REALLY all that insane, and you are just a touch bitter that the verdict was NGRI…

strong text = all my responses to CH’s arguments.

[hut-ho78]

@iridedressage

@CanteringCarrot

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Post 3376 arrived at a conclusion that ignored the part where MB said he couldn’t sleep for trying to keep up with expenses. The information within the post contradicted the written conclusion.

It does indicate he had cash flow problems as did I think the testimony of at least one of the mental health professionals who said he brought her back to New Jersey in 2019 because he needed the money.

Nope, you’re wrong. Post 3376 contains the transcript from the trial. “Cash flow problems” was never spoken in testimony. It was said MB had to be careful with his money and that has been wildly misinterpreted since.

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/ActiveShooterPaper2018.pdf

It’s adorable when you think everyone doesn’t already know what pushed MB over the edge - LK.

He was buried under stress. Divorce. New relationship with problems. Cash flow worries. Loss of income and business manager (wife). Ice busted pipes and damage to house. Bouts of depression. 8-9 past concussions plus being in his mid-fifties. Without those issues, with his experience and celebrated charm, he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business. This was a situation that did not have to end the way it did. Tragically.

I wish them all well.

What does “being in his mid-fifties” mean? Or why does it matter much? I have not reached that age yet. Does something crazy happen when you do?

I have reached that age and I am no more crazy than I was when I was younger!! And physically, as with most horse people in this age range, I’m still rocking it! CH is spewing ageism at its finest and I for one find it extremely insulting.

Congratulations on your good health! Just so you know, if you stay healthy, you get to keep having colonoscopies after the age of 75.

[eggbutt]

@Sdel

Well, since we are back to MB’s personal life and 48 hours, I’ll just put this one here…it clears up a lot.

Also, this comment was apparently the subject of a delete that was screenshot and put back into the FB record. Even the FB crowd knows to “QFP”.

I wonder how “they” gave 48 Hours one of those elusive bombshells SEVEN WEEKS AGO when they just met LK for the first time this week? Something tells me they wanted no part of any illegally obtained recordings. They might mention illegal recordings in the episode, but they aren’t dumb enough to quote them or play them. After all this time the Kanareks still deflect to content thinking no one sees their installation of the recording devices and the most egregious act - not what supposedly was on them.

It’s like they have a black magician’s hat they pull these imaginary bombshells out of. You get a bombshell and you get a bombshell and YOU get a bombshell! Everyone gets a bombshell!

[Sdel]

@hut-ho78

When he tried to talk about more the two he entered into evidence the judge stopped him. Perhaps he has a pattern of trying to only introducing enough to make his point.

So, you are saying this prosecutor has a habit of cherry-picking his evidence? If the only text he could cherry-pick to make his point was from a year before the shooting……doesn’t that indicate a lack of evidence for the point he was making?

Edited because I accidentally referenced a year before the trial instead of shooting

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@iridedressage

@CanteringCarrot

@hut-ho78

@Knights_Mom

@hut-ho78

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Post 3376 arrived at a conclusion that ignored the part where MB said he couldn’t sleep for trying to keep up with expenses. The information within the post contradicted the written conclusion.

It does indicate he had cash flow problems as did I think the testimony of at least one of the mental health professionals who said he brought her back to New Jersey in 2019 because he needed the money.

Nope, you’re wrong. Post 3376 contains the transcript from the trial. “Cash flow problems” was never spoken in testimony. It was said MB had to be careful with his money and that has been wildly misinterpreted since.

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2018-08/ActiveShooterPaper2018.pdf

It’s adorable when you think everyone doesn’t already know what pushed MB over the edge - LK.

He was buried under stress. Divorce. New relationship with problems. Cash flow worries. Loss of income and business manager (wife). Ice busted pipes and damage to house. Bouts of depression. 8-9 past concussions plus being in his mid-fifties. Without those issues, with his experience and celebrated charm, he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business. This was a situation that did not have to end the way it did. Tragically.

I wish them all well.

What does “being in his mid-fifties” mean? Or why does it matter much? I have not reached that age yet. Does something crazy happen when you do?

I have reached that age and I am no more crazy than I was when I was younger!! And physically, as with most horse people in this age range, I’m still rocking it! CH is spewing ageism at its finest and I for one find it extremely insulting.

By CH, do you mean me? What have I posted that is ageist?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CurrentlyHorseless

By CH, do you mean me? What have I posted that is ageist?

I think they mistook Hut-Ho’s post as one of yours

[DownYonder]

@eggbutt

So @Seeker1 did you sit in on the 48 Hours interview too? If so, was it scripted?

My theory that it appeared as though someone was auditioning for 48 Hours was flagged and removed by the Mods. Not sure why it was flagged - maybe was getting too close to the truth.

[hut-ho78]

@eggbutt

@hut-ho78

he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business.

Okay, I’ll ask this again, do you personally know LK? Have you personally dealt with her or been the subject of her wrath and bullying? Do you personally know anyone who had? If not, take a seat. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Once again, dictating how others are allowed to post. Please do not do so.

With his experience with wealthy clients and their children, adult and otherwise, he should have had the good judgment to evict her, actually to have avoided bringing her back from Florida even.

Your experience with LK sounds terrible for both parties. I hope you can soon move on.

[Angela_Freda]

@CanteringCarrot

It was weird and kind of rude, really.

I don’t know what’s wrong with saying, “the money comes from my father, it is his income that funds my hobby, house, animals, etc. He has been a successful (whatever his profession is) for many years.”

I mean, come on, you’re not 5 years old and neither is the jury. “The bank” is just a rude wiseass answer

Flippant.
And from the presumed victim, speaking at the trial of her alleged assailant, that’s really odd.