Barisone assessment

[CanteringCarrot]

@eggbutt

So who said she isn’t riding now and how do they know?

Is she totally unable to ride unless an Olympic caliber trainer, or a trainer who “loves her” is there to supervise? If that is true, what a sad state of affairs. Those pets will lose their conditioning quickly if not ridden routinely. The possibility that she doesn’t ride because she is afraid or doesn’t have a trainer at her side after all these years of lessons and training is shocking. Why have 4, 5, or 6 horses if you’re afraid to hack out or ride in the ring practicing what you’ve been taught. This can’t be true, can it? Please note before I am misinterpreted, I am asking the questions who said she is no longer riding and if she isn’t, why? I can imagine any number of budding Young Riders who would love to lease or buy one or more of the horses to take them up the levels rather than have them sit and let that talent be wasted.

No idea. Just responding to Hut-ho saying that she’s possibly not riding due to her injuries and medical procedures from the shooting.

[cheval_convert]

I need to learn to use the sarcasm font.

[Joanne]

@FitzE

Yes, dressed in black, barefoot, with a veil, but no mention of dance and/or workout clothes. That’s the info that seems really specific and not possible to be known to anyone not there that night (and not on the rock, in one of the buildings with light to see what was actually worn) or not intimately connected with the person wearing the clothes such that that person could tell them, ‘I was wearing dance/workout clothes’.

Am I remembering correctly that she was trying to peer into windows also?

[trubandloki]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Because I assumed it could be answered by users and that it wasn’t necessary to bother the mods.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’m pretty sure that the poster of the flagged post does not receive notification of who flagged the post. You must know the answer to the question as a long time poster. I’m not sure why you’re being coy.

Perhaps I should make a bunch of posts flirting with “the line” and see what notifications I get. LOL.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Yes, @eggbutt. You stated that the substitute trainer for Ulf fired LK as a client immediately after the trial, and that she has not been riding since.

Actually, you posted the detail that the substitute trainer fired her in a phone call.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Thank you, Eggbutt.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I don’t know for a fact whether it correct or incorrect, since I’m not the one stalking LK.

You asked Hut-Ho, “is that really what I said”, and the answer is yes, that’s what you said.

Re bolded. The claim that you received the information “from someone removed from the inner circle” is an odd detail.

@CurrentlyHorseless

With this post you’re confirming that by finding him NGRI, the jury did conclude that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Michael Barisone shot LK.

@CurrentlyHorseless

If he had served the 30 day notice on or before July 1, I think she would honored the 30 day notice and left prior to August 1.

If he only realized he was desperate to get her out of there by, say July 22, he had two legal, honest options:

1. tell her, unilaterally, the training relationship and tenancy are ending as of Aug 22, 2019, or
2. acknowledge that she had the right to remain for up to 30 days, and request and negotiate for her to leave earlier.

He went through door #3,
3) harass, intimidate and scare her into leaving prior to 30 days, and without a buyout of some form. The police calls and the massive complaint to USEF were part of the harassment campaign.

1 & 2 are alternatives to the intimidation campaign he chose. LK had been training with MB for some time, and while MB and MHG suddenly wanted her gone, if they had taken door 1 or door 2 instead of door three, it’s just not that onerous to honor the 30 day legally required notice.

I don’t think her FB posts, SS report, or harassment via the BI happened in a vacuum. I think she was responding to Barisone’s choice of door #3.

The closest I have come to this situation personally is that at one point I was sharing an apartment with a roommate I no longer got along with, and spent some money paying her last month’s rent to get her out of the apartment 3 weeks early. I “bought her out”. I was a student at the time and by no means flush, but it was money well spent.

I think that if Barisone had not opted for the intimidation campaign, it would have been uncomfortable but bearable to wait out the thirty days from whenever things turned sour (which was prior to Aug 5.) But I would have gone for door #2, and tried to “buy her out”. If her terms were something I couldn’t stomach, I would have made the best of the situation and waited out the thirty days without deliberately escalating things with an intimidation campaign.

@CurrentlyHorseless

By saying you would have hung the jury by holding out for a straight NG because you don’t think the prosecution made its case that he shot her, that implies to me that the unhung jury that unanimously agreed on NGRI was in unanimous agreement that the prosecution did make its case.

Re bolded: according to the jury instructions, they’re not even supposed to consider the issue of insanity until after they’ve decided that the prosecution made its case that he shot her.

@Seeker1

No

@Seeker1

I believe eggbutt to be a very misguided and angry person.

@Seeker1

Oh i continue to pray for her (eggbutt) to find happiness and the best version of herself. She is a particularly stubborn case as she has most likely been tramatized, abused, and/or bullied many times. This creates much more than average anger…need for attention, lack of empathy…lack of sympathy. She indeed needs the prayers of many. I truly pity her allowing my family and dressage to rent so much space in her head particularly since she is not even a dressage rider as per her own admission.

@CurrentlyHorseless

• No, I didn’t realize someone could get banned without being flagged. How would a poster be banned without someone bringing their behavior to the attention of the mods by flagging the offensive posts?
• Is it considered bad behavior by the mods to “tag” or mention a banned poster? I mentioned both Equkelly and RND, and happened to do so by using their full screen name with the @. Are you saying its OK to mention a banned poster but just not OK to include the @??? You and others are constantly bringing up YD; is it acceptable to mention a banned poster as long as one omits the @? What difference does it make whether one happens to include the @?

@Seeker1

Seems like you “think” you know what is true which is truly laughable as you claim to know so much without any relationship to the perp or victim. I, on the other hand, I am the victim’s mom and lived much of this trauma first hand. I find it truly amusing when you and others make definitive assertions about what happened and you have absolutely no clue…well it would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

I believe you posted that you were out of the country, and you most certainly were not at the farm that day.

@Seeker1

I have a vested interest here unlike some of you who just like to engage in cruel and sadistic behavior for fun…as in eggbutts so called sadism “playground”.

@Seeker1

She had no such plans. I think you and many others here should start careers as fiction writers. However…the books probably wouldnt be that good or interesting.

@Seeker1

But you do?

@Seeker1

He testified that there plans to barter for stable accommodations.

He testified to more than one thing.

@Seeker1

Discuss away but stop the maliciously manufactured works of fiction please?

@Seeker1

Ok msg me please.

@CurrentlyHorseless

You’re right, if he had chosen door #1, it’s possible that she would refused to vacate by August 22. That’s all part of door #1. But he never gave her the opportunity to vacate within 30 days.

I would have requested she leave earlier, and negotiate a buyout of some form, and if I couldn’t stomach the expense of the buyout, wait out the thirty days without escalating the conflict with the intimidation campaign, even if the likelihood of her honoring the 30 days was less than 100%.

You’ve pointed out that in NJ, as in many states, the law favors tenants in a lot of ways. She was a legal tenant, and the law is the law.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Tarshis testified that there were no written contracts.

Verbal contracts are still contracts that can be enforced.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Yes, JK was in the process of negotiating an exit on LKs behalf, presumably with LKs consent to the process of the negotiation. As principal, she did not agree to the terms proposed by Tarshis and JK on Aug 5 or 6, and intended to continue negotiating via ED. All perfectly legal.

So LK and JK thought the issue was being resolved via door #2. The tragedy is that Barisone in his delusions was unable to let the negotiations continue for another few days and shot her.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I have answered for myself, Warmblood1.

I have never said that MB “woke up one day, gave a 1-2 day notice and shot her”.

@CurrentlyHorseless

• Re bolded. Posters can be banned because “the mods have been messaged about them”? You’re saying that rather than using the flagging button, posters use a PM to the mods instead? That just sounds like a more general version of the idea of “flagging”. I think you’ve confirmed that banning occurs when someone brings the bad behavior to the attention of the mods, whether with the flag button or by PM. No, I was not “bragging about” flagging a while back, and I have never used PM to complain to the mods about the behavior of another poster.
• I wished to mention the banned posters Equkelly and RND. I happened to throw in the @, when I did so. I had no idea throwing in the @ mattered for anything. I still don’t understand why it matters for a banned poster who will not see it anyway. I trust the moderators decisions. Why would my mentioning the banned posters, with or without the @, suggest that I thought they were “wronged”?
• I also did not realize that using the tagging feature of the forum when addressing active posters was considered offensive. I don’t object to being tagged. You’re right that it’s redundant if you’re quoting @screennameA, but it’s not redundant if you’re referring to @screennameB while quoting @screennameA.
• I receive many, many notifications that I’ve been quoted by trubandloki, and have been able to simply ignore that form of harassment. For months. Do you have an opinion on the forum etiquette regarding that tiresome tactic?

@CurrentlyHorseless

I fully acknowledge that through his lawyer, MB had been negotiating with JK for some period of time prior to Aug 5. I did not specifically state it because I thought everyone knew it.

I believe she was on board with the idea of a negotiated departure, but did not agree to the proposed deal presented on Aug 5/6 and intended to continue negotiations via ED.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I think Ekat referred to it as “cash for keys” and said it was a not uncommon (legal) way for a landlord to avoid all the time and expense of eviction.

@hut-ho78

One would think. I was surprised to get the message from the moderator about junior high behavior. I haven’t checked to see if the “juvenile” comment remains.

@hut-ho78

Here is one. Still flagged and still here. So if it gets one flag then no action but multiple flags then it’s deleted with a message from the mod. Good to know. Y’all are busted!

@hut-ho78

Here is another. Same. Glad I didn’t use such strong language again as juvenile or repeat the junior high maturity comment. Y’all would have tag teamed me in a New York minute!

@hut-ho78

Finally, she admits she posted it. Hooray!

@hut-ho78

Actually some barns welcome cameras for horse health, safety, and security. They’ve been used in foaling barns for years. I was in one that looked into setting up cameras for all of the owners but decided it was too expensive at the time.

@hut-ho78

Yes and the jury believed the defense mental health experts.

@hut-ho78

She is banned and y’all still can’t stop posting her stuff on here. Good grief.

@hut-ho78

She stated at one point that her implant saved her life then there have been multiple discussions as to whether that was possible and deflection if one of the bullets off the implant to break the window instead of a third shot breaking the window.

Dressage takes core strength. Her core was perforated and sliced. Her lung collapsed. They went in under her arm to reach the aorta to clamp it when she was bleeding out. They slit her open from stem to stern so her organs could have room to swell and not stop her breathing.

Anyone who has had a C section, mastectomy, radiation, or other core penetrating surgeries or injuries can attest to discomfort afterwards, sometimes something that can be worked through and sometimes debilitating.

@hut-ho78

The prosecution had to determine he did the act but since he was deemed insane and unable to have a criminal intent he is Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity (NGRI). Had the prosecutor not proven he performed the act beyond a reasonable doubt, he would be Not Guilty (NG) as they found for the charges concerning RG.

@hut-ho78

That is one of many reasons I believe the NGRI was the right verdict. He had the upper hand. Her escalating behavior was all helping him to have her evicted under New Jersey’s emergency eviction clause for disorderly. None of this needed to happen, a great tragedy.

@hut-ho78

The document in the middle of the angst was an annual release from liability standard form used by many barns. That and the “get rid of her” comments I believe to be all innocent but once she was shot twice, it is understandable that they are perceived in a more sinister light.

@hut-ho78

Per testimony from MHG, MB also provided many alarming quotes. The sad irony is the threat was MB, not LK. Even RC missed that.

@hut-ho78

You are mistaken. That small number of posters arrived after the thread took a mean turn. Maybe if the comments stayed about the trials and not about attacking people, it could stay strictly about the trial.

@hut-ho78

I just remember her SM posts, not her testifying under oath about it.

@hut-ho78

Mechanic’s liens and reporting other code violations or illegal actions they have noticed are the more common tactics. It can be quite a headline grabber for a public project in an election year.

@Ghazzu

I believe it is also prudent to make a number of incisions to allow the release of post-mortem gas accumulation, which would make the corpse more buoyant.

Oh yes. Very good advice. You can probably use less weight that way too, making the whole body hiding process easier.

[Joanne]

Ninja outfit makes it debut at 5:06:30, talked about several times during the next 2 minutes.

WATCH LIVE: NJ v Michael Barisone Trial Day 7 - Direct Exam of Phillip Dutton -...

[eggbutt]

@CanteringCarrot

No idea. Just responding to Hut-ho saying that she’s possibly not riding due to her injuries and medical procedures from the shooting.

Well what, after all this time of months and months of supposedly riding several horses a day including riding with some sort of zip tie contraption, has caused her to stop, if that’s the case. Truly dedicated dressage riders don’t let much stop them, especially a lapse in a trainer! After all this time one would think she knows the drill. If this is true it just proves MH hit the nail on the head in her testimony about LK’s riding.

[clipper]

@CurrentlyHorseless

NG =/= NGRI

I know I am 350 posts behind but I have been so fed up with no knowing this symbol that I finally looked it up on Cyber Definitions. It means “does not equal”. hahahaha
Who Knew? Not me.

CH I disagree with your opinion that the term NGRI is NOT equal to NG. The legal terms ARE equal.
Seeing as the TRIAL of MB was a “legal” trial he is NOT GUILTY.

Here are some websites for you to read about the terms https://people.howstuffworks.com/question509.htm
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/law-disorder/202002/not-guilty-reason-insanity

[Joanne]

Sounds like LK’s daddy can’t buy her a BNT in that area.

[FitzE]

Aw, that reminds me how much I liked Mr McGrain. He looks so nervous (as I would have been to have to testify about anything at all, let alone about people as toxic as the ninja & co.) but he did so well. I bet he’s great with horses, especially the babies they said he worked with. He seems so quiet and observant. I hope he’s doing well post all this nonsense and still working with horses, if that’s still his passion.

[eggbutt]

Or if he’s been able to find one they don’t meet LK’s specifications. Remember JK and Tarshis and someone else had negotiated her move to another Olympic barn 15 miles away but she rejected it for some reason.

And, I don’t for one second believe Ali Brock helped her find any facility willing to take her. I can imagine she was completely shocked when she learned LK was at a facility she taught the owner!

[DownYonder]

@FitzE

Yes, dressed in black, barefoot, with a veil, but no mention of dance and/or workout clothes. That’s the info that seems really specific and not possible to be known to anyone not there that night (and not on the rock, in one of the buildings with light to see what was actually worn) or not intimately connected with the person wearing the clothes such that that person could tell them, ‘I was wearing dance/workout clothes’.

That’s what I find so surprising - that someone claiming no connection is so knowledgable they know what exactly was worn that night

I thought one of the staff that testified at the trial mentioned the outfit during his testimony. Am I misremembering?

Also, I find it hard to believe that someone whose “passion” was riding horses would be “working out” or “dancing” when she couldn’t manage to muster herself enough to get to the barn to actually ride on a regular basis. Or was she so exhausted from her “working out” and “dancing” (and other activities) to go ride?

[erinmeri]

@hut-ho78

The local LE did their job regardless of what a few here misrepresent.

If you believe this, you are absolutely misguided. They apparently did not:

1. Secure the scene
2. Detain all involved
3. Gather and preserve forensic evidence
4. Search the entirety of the area, including multiple vehicles and the residence(s) in the immediate area
   etc.

Have you ever served on a jury? Have you ever seen what forensics and proper procedure look like in actuality? Or are you merely satisfied with the botched job because you are disinterested in what a proper crime scene work up may have revealed?

Come on… your statement is beyond the pale.

[Joanne]

@DownYonder

I thought one of the staff that testified at the trial mentioned the outfit during his testimony. Am I misremembering?

See post #1270

[FitzE]

@DownYonder

I thought one of the staff that testified at the trial mentioned the outfit during his testimony. Am I misremembering?

Yes, Mr McGrain discusses it. He just says all black with a veil and no shoes; maybe a dress or spandex, he couldn’t tell. Then HH said specifically it was workout/dance wear which I’m wondering how HH could know if HH wasn’t there or wasn’t told by someone there exactly what the outfit was.

[BigMama1]

@hut-ho78

Yes. Exactly. @eggbutt also contradicted @BigMama1 a while back when she posted her friends told her LK was quiet, polite, and riding her horse.

She was, to my one friend who took lessons there and only interacted with LK a few times. I cannot say whether other lesson students, boarders, and staff would describe their interactions with LK in the same terms.

[FitzE]

@erinmeri

• Secure the scene
• Detain all involved
• Gather and preserve forensic evidence
• Search the entirety of the area, including multiple vehicles and the residence(s) in the immediate area
  etc.

Wasn’t there also a pond right nearby? I wonder if that was searched? But, given that the vehicles weren’t even searched (other than MB’s) I’m guessing no.

They also didn’t secure any of the recording devices or the recordings. They should have had RG access those while in custody that night and download them or give LE access to the files - that night, before he went anywhere else.

[DownYonder]

@CanteringCarrot

Just responding to Hut-ho saying that she’s possibly not riding due to her injuries and medical procedures from the shooting.

I call BS on her not riding due to her injuries. She was seen riding at the barn in FL and even caught on video riding a horse. And there was/is the rumor that she did finally attain her Bronze Medal in the past year or so. If she is currently not riding, it isn’t due to her injuries but rather to try to bolster her civil case. That and the fact that her lifestyle requires frequent “naps.”

[DownYonder]

@Joanne

@DownYonder

I thought one of the staff that testified at the trial mentioned the outfit during his testimony. Am I misremembering?

See post #1270

Thanks, and I apologize. I’ve been watching the Westminster livestream and got behind on this thread.

[Mersidoats]

She or RG posted numerous videos of her riding, starting in winter of 2020. Numerous. They were posted without any privacy settings, meaning you didn’t have to be her friend or follower to see them. Now that she has shut down or locked down her social media accounts, it’s not as accessible to everyone. But I’m sure the relevant attorneys have that information.

[eggbutt]

@BigMama1

@hut-ho78

Yes. Exactly. @eggbutt also contradicted @BigMama1 a while back when she posted her friends told her LK was quiet, polite, and riding her horse.

She was, to my one friend who took lessons there and only interacted with LK a few times. I cannot say whether other lesson students, boarders, and staff would describe their interactions with LK in the same terms.

Thank you for this @BigMama1!!! I’ve never said she was riding, not riding, quiet, etc but I recalled someone did and it was you!! Super!!