Barisone Criminal Case Update

[Knights_Mom]

In criminal cases all the defense needs is that one juror.

[IPEsq]

@Knights_Mom

Statutes are often complicated. A judge explains the statute in concise easy to understand factual language when charging a jury so I consider it BETTER than the statute for social media.

That may be true, but you previously said that the statutes “certainly” provide examples of conduct. They don’t. Certainly not. They provide a legal standard that needs to stand the test of time.

Case law also helps us understand the statutes. The jury instructions include footnotes, such as "See also State v. Gilliam, 224 N.J. Super. 759, 762 ( App. Div. 1988 ), reversing an attempted murder conviction, noting that the crime of attempted murder must be limited to attempts to cause death, not serious bodily injury. "

[IPEsq]

@Knights_Mom

@IPEsq

@3PonyFarm

How is “beyond a reasonable doubt typically explained to a jury? It seems that this wording can cause confusion.

Is it basically if you doubt something that the prosecutor is trying to prove, thats reasonable doubt?

The law likes to use the hypothetical “reasonable person” standard a lot. The standard for beyond a reasonable doubt requires almost certainty. Versus a preponderance of the evidence, which requires a finding that something is more likely than not (over 50%) true.

Preponderance is used in civil cases, not criminal.

Try this.

https://www.njcourts.gov › h…PDF
Attempted Murder (2C:5-1 / 2C11-3a(1)) - NJ Courts

Try reading for comprehension.

[Knights_Mom]

@IPEsq

@Knights_Mom

Statutes are often complicated. A judge explains the statute in concise easy to understand factual language when charging a jury so I consider it BETTER than the statute for social media.

That may be true, but you previously said that the statutes “certainly” provide examples of conduct. They don’t. Certainly not. They provide a legal standard that needs to stand the test of time.

Case law also helps us understand the statutes. The jury instructions include footnotes, such as "See also State v. Gilliam, 224 N.J. Super. 759, 762 ( App. Div. 1988 ), reversing an attempted murder conviction, noting that the crime of attempted murder must be limited to attempts to cause death, not serious bodily injury. "

Case law must either be presented at trial or used by a Judge to make a ruling. An attorney at trial can debate case law with another example of case law and on that, the judge rules.

If NJ statute doesn’t provide examples then they write crappy law unless you are misunderstanding my definition of examples. Let me show you. One minute.

[IPEsq]

No need, I’m done with whatever this debate is. I don’t even understand what you are trying to say anymore. I have a JD and a post-doctoral law degree and have been a licensed attorney for 14 years, practicing primarily in an area of federal law. You don’t have to teach me how to read a statute.

[Knights_Mom]

@IPEsq
This is an example of explanations in this states statutes for Murder 2

[IPEsq]

Oh lordy, no no no, those are not “examples.” Those are elements to be proved.

[Knights_Mom]

@IPEsq

No need, I’m done with whatever this debate is. I don’t even understand what you are trying to say anymore. I have a JD and a post-doctoral law degree and have been a licensed attorney for 14 years, practicing primarily in an area of federal law. You don’t have to teach me how to read a statute.

As you wish said the 31 year court clerk who has worked criminal, family, civil courts. I spent much of my time telling lawyers what to do.

[Knights_Mom]

@IPEsq

Oh lordy, no no no, those are not “examples.” Those are elements to be proved.

I’m showing you what I meant by saying definitions/examples. Not hard.

[Sdel]

@IdahoRider

She got into the mud when she posted. Having said that, and standing by my questions as appropriate, I understand why she both needs to hold LK at arms length (if that part is true) and feels she needs to defend her daughter. Opposing forces, yet equally strong.

No, she did not. You asked for a completely inappropriate and irrelevant piece of very personal family gossip that is only designed to embarrass the family, even if it’s only them that can see it. I don’t even understand how you could ever expect her mother to answer with anything but a resounding “LK is a dearly loved member of the family and is always welcome” type response….regardless of the truth of it, and so it is actually a very cruel question to ask her.

[La-LaPopRider]

@IdahoRider

If I remember those first threads, chick came out swinging with insults and condescending attitude

Typically what happens after a 3 week “blackout,” from anything happening outside the confines of an ICU with a ventilator shoved down your throat - and finding rando anonymous Coth users spewing ABSOLUTE lies and misinformation about yourself. Then, those same people conveniently reminding themselves that, as long as they (including you) simply state “NDTBS,” at the end of each victim blaming post, they are absolved from posting things which do more than just imply I had some role in another’s decision to attempt murder on 2 people, (which would be bad enough & warrant a less than kind reply) but, directly state that I should TAKE responsibility for those actions.

You bet your tush I’ll likely have quite a lot to say about that. If you don’t like that, don’t read it.

[La-LaPopRider]

@Knights_Mom

Stuff CLERKS have to explain to folks as part of their job

Judge: Lady in the corner, please read aloud my jury instructions and the explanations listed within those instructions.

Clerk: Reads aloud judge’s instructions. (Bravo.)

[Knights_Mom]

@La-LaPopRider

@Knights_Mom

Stuff CLERKS have to explain to folks as part of their job

Judge: Lady in the corner, please read aloud my jury instructions and the explanations listed within those instructions.

Clerk: Reads aloud judge’s instructions. (Bravo.)

Judges charge the jury, not clerks.

[Equkelly]

@La-LaPopRider

Typically what happens after a 3 week “blackout,” from anything happening outside the confines of an ICU with a ventilator shoved down your throat - and finding rando anonymous Coth users spewing ABSOLUTE lies and misinformation about yourself. Then, those same people conveniently reminding themselves that, as long as they (including you) simply state “NDTBS,” at the end of each victim blaming post, they are absolved from posting things which do more than just imply I had some role in another’s decision to attempt murder on 2 people, (which would be bad enough & warrant a less than kind reply) but, directly state that I should TAKE responsibility for those actions.

You bet your tush I’ll likely have quite a lot to say about that. If you don’t like that, don’t read it.

Everyone here needs to read this and then read it again. This is exactly what those of us that are trauma informed have been saying this whole time. FWIW, for anyone that thinks LK had behaved poorly… if it had been me, I would’ve reacted 10000 times worse.

[Fat_Dinah]

Can RC testify about what Barisone said he intended to do with the gun? Or would that be considered hearsay and not admissibile?
I have long thought that the most the prosecution could expect is conviction on assault with reduced responsibility because of Barisone’s mental state.
If there is a mistrial with one recalcitrant juror, that’s when you will see a plea worked out for time served and probation.

[La-LaPopRider]

@Scribbler

You might even find a bunch of them were inaudible

Nothing we have is “inaudible.” Everything we have has transcripts with exact time stamps. Our own, a few separate expert forensic transcriptions - which, with complete neutrality, match the others. There are originals of everything plus, numerous copies which (a select few) have removed and/or separated voices so that each person’s voice is distinct in that which the specific person speaking is suggesting. Anything which can be heard with a “naked ear,” from somewhere within the area which “anyone walking by, through, or around” could reasonably be expected to overhear. Ironically, in one such video/recording - an individual actually states how she/he went to hide in a barn aisle bathroom to better hear a conversation taking place near an exit door.

Although, cell phone videos are very clear and very legal and very damning. No transcriptions needed…. though they do exist.

[La-LaPopRider]

@Fat_Dinah

Can RC testify about what Barisone said he intended to do with the gun? Or would that be considered hearsay and not admissibile?

Yes, she can. Not “hearsay.” If RC said “someone told her mb said X” THAT would be hearsay. If mb told RC anything directly, it is not “hearsay.”

[La-LaPopRider]

@eggbutt

I’m actually at a loss for words.

Finally. Let’s keep it that way? Do you honestly believe we are UNHAPPY to receive the news that RC will now be a witness FOR the prosecution? Or, is that your secret Santa Christmas gift wish? Keep wishing. Just stop lying. Less talking maybe, too!

[smoofox]

@Equkelly

Everyone here needs to read this and then read it again. This is exactly what those of us that are trauma informed have been saying this whole time. FWIW, for anyone that thinks LK had behaved poorly… if it had been me, I would’ve reacted 10000 times worse.

“Trauma informed”?! You are making a huge and dismissive assumption that others have had no trauma experience or knowledge. You have ZERO idea of what others may have gone through… and yet think you “know”.

With all due respect, you haven’t got a clue what others may have experienced and may still be working through… but rush to judge and point fingers anyway.

Everyone handles it differently. If it had been me in this sad situation, NO - I would not have come on any message board/forum (or commented on Facebook or anywhere else) and gotten upset and raged and ranted… not wanting to engage or do/say anything that might, in even the smallest way, be detrimental to my case in some way.

Many of us have expressed those concerns to LK from the very beginning of these threads - without “attacking” or insulting etc. But I understand that that fact conflicts with the opinion (not a fact) that every poster here is vile, out to get LK, a MB “fan” (snort) or whatever the insult of the day is…. and that mods are bad and the entire forum is disgusting and so on and so forth.

But back on topic… thanks to the legal beagles for all the clarification about legal terms and procedures!

[Equkelly]

@smoofox

“Trauma informed”?! You are making a huge and dismissive assumption that others have had no trauma experience or knowledge. You have ZERO idea of what others may have gone through… and yet think you “know”.

With all due respect, you haven’t got a clue what others may have experienced and may still be working through… but rush to judge and point fingers anyway.

[edit] If you don’t know what something means next time, ask or google it. Trauma informed versus not doesn’t have anything to do with the presence of absence of a trauma in the informed party’s life. That’s not what that means. I know it’s hard because these threads are so full of toxicity but you need to remember not everything is an attack.

Since you asked ever so nicely, being “trauma informed” means you have a deep understanding of what trauma is and how how trauma can effect behavior. The term is usually used in a social work setting.