Barisone/Kanarek Legal Filings (Public Record)

[eggbutt]

@NotGrandPrixYet

Perhaps LK called her lawyer and was secretly letting him in on the conversation between RG, MB, and herself. Perhaps that’s why she has said that she could hear from the porch, but leaned over the rail to “hear better”. And perhaps that’s why she stepped off the porch to get closer to MB. That could very well be how the call got through to 911, if the lawyer patched them in with the conference call feature (it’s on all newer cell phone, and A lawyer would most likely know how to use it). So that would also be why her lawyer would have called her dad right afterward.

I guess we’ll find out eventually! I know it is quite different the farther north one goes, but I know every hospital and trauma center within 100 miles of my home. LK’s parents lived 45 miles from Hawthorne Hill. I understand everyone acts differently under duress and stress, but he seemed so calm. If I thought my child had been shot, I’d be calling the area trauma centers. There’s no record of him calling again that we know of, so he must have gotten the correct information eventually. Even though all communication devices were taken as evidence, it seems Rob could have asked the police, nurse, anyone, to call the Kanareks and let them know what was happening. Maybe he eventually did. I would hope so.

[YankeeDuchess]

@eggbutt

As a refresher, here’s the article that indicates what she said when she called 911 ~

https://www.nj.com/morris/2019/08/accused-shooter-at-equestrian-center-claims-he-was-being-harassed-by-woman-he-shot.html?fbclid=IwAR2aEoufzohCgon6nj_zsKKN-YnWv0BNOZq6yLuqyeu0F_cBzV-OW_bxp3k

  Apparently in addition to “Michael Barisone shot me”, she also said “I’ve been shot twice.”  Maybe she led with that.

[cutter99]

Congratulations on an excellent Day Four!

Hope you all are having a great weekend and getting some sunshine and horse time!

[eggbutt]

@YankeeDuchess

Apparently in addition to “Michael Barisone shot me”, she also said “I’ve been shot twice.” Maybe she led with that.

Uh-o…I wonder when someone will ask if that was before or after she was shot? (Obviously I am being sarcastic. That level of focus and demeanor under such stress is amazing…seriously. No one deserves to be shot.)

[YankeeDuchess]

@eggbutt

Uh-o…I wonder when someone will ask if that was before or after she was shot? (Obviously I am being sarcastic. That level of focus and demeanor under such stress is amazing…seriously. No one deserves to be shot.)

Huh? Did you read the posts by Jenerationx? Based on experience as a 911 operator, she said that it was unusual for a caller to lead off a call with the first and last name of the person assaulting them; instead it’s more usual for them to say something like “I’ve been shot!” The article you posted quoted LK as saying “I’ve been shot twice,” almost exactly consistent with what Jenerationx says is typical. On further prompting by the operator as to who was assaulting her, she then may have said “Michael Barisone” or “Michael Barisone shot me.” This answers FitzE’s concern that starting a 911 call with “Michael Barisone shot me” sounded unnatural.

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@cutter99

Congratulations on an excellent Day Four!

Hope you all are having a great weekend and getting some sunshine and horse time!

Yes!!! I did! I spent the whole afternoon with my horses. And we didn’t have to do any social distancing because the barn is closed.

[Jenerationx]

@eggbutt

Legal scholars…why would LK’s 911 call be withheld while the others have been released?

It varies by state, but in general 911 tapes can be exempt from press or public request if it’s determined that the crime victim should have a reasonable expectation of privacy. So, especially if there was something graphic on that tape, even the clear aftermath of trauma, the agency can withhold it to protect a victim or victim’s family from being subjected to hearing it. Since the press was able to obtain the other tapes, it seems this one falls under that Open Public Records Act exemption.

[eggbutt]

Thank you @Jenerationx !!

[FitzE]

@Jenerationx

I haven’t heard LK’s call to 911 or non-emergency number, so who knows what the actual words were? Reports that she said Michael Barisone shot her might just mean that she identified that it was him and provided a name when asked if she knew. It doesn’t necessarily mean that she literally said “Michael Barisone shot me.” Although that would be unusual, it’s not outside the realm of possibility either if someone were to think they’re dying and their mind goes to making sure the attacker is identified. It would just be unusual to lead with the person’s name.

ETA: Some of MB’s wording is strange too. People don’t usually say they’re in fear for their lives in those specific words. I think he said he’d called multiple times and there was “no relief.” That’s very specific. It sounds to me as someone who took many of those types of calls that both sides were trying to get very specific things on the record.

All excellent points. I also agree that, while the NYT article had her call as a direct quote, so much in that article was way off base so no reason to believe that one bit as gospel.

[FitzE]

@NotGrandPrixYet

Perhaps LK called her lawyer and was secretly letting him in on the conversation between RG, MB, and herself. Perhaps that’s why she has said that she could hear from the porch, but leaned over the rail to “hear better”. And perhaps that’s why she stepped off the porch to get closer to MB. That could very well be how the call got through to 911, if the lawyer patched them in with the conference call feature (it’s on all newer cell phone, and A lawyer would most likely know how to use it). So that would also be why her lawyer would have called her dad right afterward.

Sorry, I 100% failed at the multi-quote. I’ll take a bit of retraining, I fear. Think of me as the human equivalent of an OTTB.

I had this exact thought. Given their penchant for recording, I was thinking her phone was live as soon as she saw his truck coming down the drive. I bet the whole exchange is recorded through her phone.

[eggbutt]

Apparently anyone can submit an OPRA (Open Public Records Act) form from Morris County, NJ for the 911 call. Here is a link to the form: https://morriscountynj.seamlessdocs.com/f/sheriffOPRA/

Just because a request is made, doesn’t mean it will be approved I’m assuming.

I am always super impressed with the amount of information available via the internet and how quickly information can be obtained.

[eggbutt]

@FitzE

All excellent points. I also agree that, while the NYT article had her call as a direct quote, so much in that article was way off base so no reason to believe that one bit as gospel.

I totally agree about the NYT article, but the NJ.com information seems to have been fairly accurate. Here’s the link again to that article that also quoted LK’s 911 call. https://www.nj.com/morris/2019/08/accused-shooter-at-equestrian-center-claims-he-was-being-harassed-by-woman-he-shot.html?fbclid=IwAR2aEoufzohCgon6nj_zsKKN-YnWv0BNOZq6yLuqyeu0F_cBzV-OW_bxp3k

[eggbutt]

@FitzE

I had this exact thought. Given their penchant for recording, I was thinking her phone was live as soon as she saw his truck coming down the drive. I bet the whole exchange is recorded through her phone.

THIS^^ EXACTLY!!

[Jenerationx]

I suspect that a request was already made since all the other calls were released and that one was probably denied for the victim’s right exception.

[Sdel]

@NotGrandPrixYet

Perhaps LK called her lawyer and was secretly letting him in on the conversation between RG, MB, and herself. Perhaps that’s why she has said that she could hear from the porch, but leaned over the rail to “hear better”. And perhaps that’s why she stepped off the porch to get closer to MB. That could very well be how the call got through to 911, if the lawyer patched them in with the conference call feature (it’s on all newer cell phone, and A lawyer would most likely know how to use it). So that would also be why her lawyer would have called her dad right afterward.

Could it be the info that JK was calling 911 fishing for was if the shooting had been reported?. If the phone got disconnected the person on the other end might not have known what the outcome was. If that person was LK’s attorney, he might have called her dad and told him it happened but not known if anyone was responding.

Maybe was calling to see if the dispatcher would say something like “oh yeah, we’ve been called about the shots already, someone is on the way”…and he didn’t get that…he got call non-emergency…so JK kept going on about the ongoing dispute trying trigger a statement from the dispatcher.

That call had to have been made very close to the time of the shooting…

Lawyers on the forum…would an attorney patching in to 911 or calling them directly to report an incident waive attorney-client privilege?

[RainWeasley]

@NotGrandPrixYet

Perhaps LK called her lawyer and was secretly letting him in on the conversation between RG, MB, and herself. Perhaps that’s why she has said that she could hear from the porch, but leaned over the rail to “hear better”. And perhaps that’s why she stepped off the porch to get closer to MB. That could very well be how the call got through to 911, if the lawyer patched them in with the conference call feature (it’s on all newer cell phone, and A lawyer would most likely know how to use it). So that would also be why her lawyer would have called her dad right afterward.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

[FitzE]

A-C privilege is only between the attorney and active client. If attorney calls 911 there is no client involved so that communication is not privileged. Even if the subject of the call is about a client (not here, it was about his daughter) it is not a privileged communication. It’s just a phone call and, with 911, a phone call that can even be made public.

ETA: should also note that not every direct A-C communication is even privileged. The subject must be quite specific, otherwise it is discoverable even if between attorney and client.

[Ambitious_Kate]

@FitzE

A-C privilege is only between the attorney and active client. If attorney calls 911 there is no client involved so that communication is not privileged. Even if the subject of the call is about a client (not here, it was about his daughter) it is not a privileged communication. It’s just a phone call and, with 911, a phone call that can even be made public.

ETA: should also note that not every direct A-C communication is even privileged. The subject must be quite specific, otherwise it is discoverable even if between attorney and client.

Exactly. Even if it WAS her attorney, which it wasn’t, just because an attorney investigates some information about a client, which she wasn’t, doesn’t mean its privileged. If an attorney called me and asked me if I knew something about his client, I am under no obligation to keep his secret. The conversations beTWEEN an attorney and his client, can, under certain circumstances, be privelged.

[cutter99]

No 911 operator is going to just handout information to anyone claiming to be an attorney. I can hear an operator saying something general, like “Thank you, we have law enforcement/ ambulance/ fire department in-route to the location”, but a 911 operator is not going to confirm that a specific individual has been shot.

1. Ethics issues would prevent revealing any personal information. Think along the lines of HIPPA regulations.

2. Logistics would prevent revealing any personal information. A 911 operator is not waiting on the line to have identifications of those involved confirmed.

Law enforcement/ ambulance/ fire department does not show up and ask for identification”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹, next of kin, name, rank and serial number, especially in a situation where lives are at risk the clock is ticking as to whether or not people are dying. Those questions do get asked, but not necessarily immediately.

Law enforcement coming into a situation like they would have on MB’s farm that day would have first assessed the situation, made sure all firearms were accounted for and under control, then do what it took to attend to LK’s needs as a severely injured person.

Why JK called 911 looking for information makes no sense.

[Angela_Freda]

@cutter99

No 911 operator is going to just handout information to anyone claiming to be an attorney. I can hear an operator saying something general, like “Thank you, we have law enforcement/ ambulance/ fire department in-route to the location”, but a 911 operator is not going to confirm that a specific individual has been shot.

1. Ethics issues would prevent revealing any personal information. Think along the lines of HIPPA regulations.

2. Logistics would prevent revealing any personal information. A 911 operator is not waiting on the line to have identifications of those involved confirmed.

Law enforcement/ ambulance/ fire department does not show up and ask for identification”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹, next of kin, name, rank and serial number, especially in a situation where lives are at risk the clock is ticking as to whether or not people are dying. Those questions do get asked, but not necessarily immediately.

Law enforcement coming into a situation like they would have on MB’s farm that day would have first assessed the situation, made sure all firearms were accounted for and under control, then do what it took to attend to LK’s needs as a severely injured person.

Why JK called 911 looking for information makes no sense.

And a lawyer should know all that.