Barisone/Kanarek Legal Filings (Public Record)

[NotGrandPrixYet]

@FitzE

A-C privilege is only between the attorney and active client. If attorney calls 911 there is no client involved so that communication is not privileged. Even if the subject of the call is about a client (not here, it was about his daughter) it is not a privileged communication. It’s just a phone call and, with 911, a phone call that can even be made public.

ETA: should also note that not every direct A-C communication is even privileged. The subject must be quite specific, otherwise it is discoverable even if between attorney and client.

But if it started like this, it was essentially an A-C call at first, and when he conferenced in 911, she was still on the call and so was her attorney, and she was participating, telling 911 that she was shot while LK was still hosting the same original call. Wouldn’t that make a difference?

That is, assuming it happened this way.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Sdel

Could it be the info that JK was calling 911 fishing for was if the shooting had been reported?. If the phone got disconnected the person on the other end might not have known what the outcome was. If that person was LK’s attorney, he might have called her dad and told him it happened but not known if anyone was responding.

Maybe was calling to see if the dispatcher would say something like “oh yeah, we’ve been called about the shots already, someone is on the way”…and he didn’t get that…he got call non-emergency…so JK kept going on about the ongoing dispute trying trigger a statement from the dispatcher.

That call had to have been made very close to the time of the shooting…

Lawyers on the forum…would an attorney patching in to 911 or calling them directly to report an incident waive attorney-client privilege?

I am still befuddled as to why a lawyer overhearing a shooting and struggle who got disconnected would do anything other than call 911 immediately, as opposed to calling her father and saying that it appeared his daughter was shot but he was not sure whether police had responded or not. If that were the purpose of JKs call, making sure that responders are on their way, that seems a completely legitimate reason to call 911: “I’ve been told of a shooting and want to make sure it’s been reported to 911”.

  Also, we have no idea when JK’s call was made, unless you have seen a time stamp.

[YankeeDuchess]

@FitzE

A-C privilege is only between the attorney and active client. If attorney calls 911 there is no client involved so that communication is not privileged. Even if the subject of the call is about a client (not here, it was about his daughter) it is not a privileged communication. It’s just a phone call and, with 911, a phone call that can even be made public.

ETA: should also note that not every direct A-C communication is even privileged. The subject must be quite specific, otherwise it is discoverable even if between attorney and client.

But wasn’t the theory that it was a conversation between LK and her attorney and that the attorney “patched” the call into 911?

[YankeeDuchess]

@Ambitious Kate

Exactly. Even if it WAS her attorney, which it wasn’t, just because an attorney investigates some information about a client, which she wasn’t, doesn’t mean its privileged. If an attorney called me and asked me if I knew something about his client, I am under no obligation to keep his secret. The conversations beTWEEN an attorney and his client, can, under certain circumstances, be privelged.

Huh?

[YankeeDuchess]

@YankeeDuchess

I am still befuddled as to why a lawyer overhearing a shooting and struggle who got disconnected would do anything other than call 911 immediately, as opposed to calling her father and saying that it appeared his daughter was shot but he was not sure whether police had responded or not. If that were the purpose of JKs call, making sure that responders are on their way, that seems a completely legitimate reason to call 911: “I’ve been told of a shooting and want to make sure it’s been reported to 911”.

  Also, we have no idea when the call was made. The call from the neighbor was apparently made after the police had already arrived. 

[Sdel]

@FitzE

A-C privilege is only between the attorney and active client. If attorney calls 911 there is no client involved so that communication is not privileged. Even if the subject of the call is about a client (not here, it was about his daughter) it is not a privileged communication. It’s just a phone call and, with 911, a phone call that can even be made public.

ETA: should also note that not every direct A-C communication is even privileged. The subject must be quite specific, otherwise it is discoverable even if between attorney and client.

So, if an attorney overheard the shooting on the phone, and subsequently reported it (or even added 911 into the call)…since the defendant/911 was present that wouldn’t be a privileged call? And then a direct 911 report by such attorney would be discoverable…and potentially make the whole conversation discoverable without a guarantee of A-C privilege?

If LK had her attorney listening in and calling 911 might make the call discoverable (or hell, how bad would it look to just have it known that she was on the phone with an attorney at the time)…well, I can see why he’d call JK to go fish around to see if anyone else had reported it instead of calling it in himself.

[eggbutt]

@Sdel

So, if an attorney overheard the shooting on the phone, and subsequently reported it (or even added 911 into the call)…since the defendant/911 was present that wouldn’t be a privileged call? And then a direct 911 report by such attorney would be discoverable…and potentially make the whole conversation discoverable without a guarantee of A-C privilege?

If LK had her attorney listening in and calling 911 might make the call discoverable (or hell, how bad would it look to just have it known that she was on the phone with an attorney at the time)…well, I can see why he’d call JK to go fish around to see if anyone else had reported it instead of calling it in himself.

Obviously we are dealing with a peculiar family who does not react the way normal society does.

As a side note I believe it is a positive sign that LK seems to be behaving on all SM. Silence and calm behavior will certainly help with her healing I would assume. Perhaps SS has finally contacted her…simply guessing.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Sdel

So, if an attorney overheard the shooting on the phone, and subsequently reported it (or even added 911 into the call)…since the defendant/911 was present that wouldn’t be a privileged call? And then a direct 911 report by such attorney would be discoverable…and potentially make the whole conversation discoverable without a guarantee of A-C privilege?

If LK had her attorney listening in and calling 911 might make the call discoverable (or hell, how bad would it look to just have it known that she was on the phone with an attorney at the time)…well, I can see why he’d call JK to go fish around to see if anyone else had reported it instead of calling it in himself.

I am still majorly befuddled. Why would it “look bad” if it were revealed that LK was on the phone to her lawyer when the shooting happened, particularly since she and the lawyer were already on alert that it was a dangerous situation?

If the lawyer were relying on JK to make the crucial 911 call, why would JK first call the non emergency number before calling 911?

[Sparky]

@YankeeDuchess

I am still majorly befuddled. Why would it “look bad” if it were revealed that LK was on the phone to her lawyer when the shooting happened, particularly since she and the lawyer were already on alert that it was a dangerous situation?

If the lawyer were relying on JK to make the crucial 911 call, why would JK first call the non emergency number before calling 911?

Maybe she called her attorney to say “Yikes it looks like you were right. We should have left last week when our friends offered to relocate us and the horses “

[YankeeDuchess]

@eggbutt

Obviously we are dealing with a peculiar family who does not react the way normal society does.

As a side note I believe it is a positive sign that LK seems to be behaving on all SM. Silence and calm behavior will certainly help with her healing I would assume. Perhaps SS has finally contacted her…simply guessing.

Why would you be guessing that SS “finally contacted her”? Do you mean in response to MBs alleged report to SS about her from August 2019?

[YankeeDuchess]

@Sparky

Maybe she called her attorney to say “Yikes it looks like you were right. We should have left last week when our friends offered to relocate us and the horses “

   Suppose that’s what she did. If the lawyer then heard a shooting and struggle, why would he call JK instead of calling 911 immediately himself?  If he did call JK to have JK report it to 911, why would JK call the non emergency number before calling 911?

[Sparky]

@YankeeDuchess

Suppose that’s what she did. If the lawyer then heard a shooting and struggle, why would he call JK instead of calling 911 immediately himself? If he did call JK to have JK report it to 911, why would JK call the non emergency number before calling 911?

Gosh I wish you weren’t so obtuse, It’s such a bore to have to point out sarcasm. You’re way overthinking this , honey. But bless your heart.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Sparky

Gosh I wish you weren’t so obtuse, It’s such a bore to have to point out sarcasm. You’re way overthinking this , honey. But bless your heart.

So sorry.

[Sdel]

@eggbutt

Obviously we are dealing with a peculiar family who does not react the way normal society does.

As a side note I believe it is a positive sign that LK seems to be behaving on all SM. Silence and calm behavior will certainly help with her healing I would assume. Perhaps SS has finally contacted her…simply guessing.

Maybe someone finally managed to convince her she hosed the case(s) by not shutting up.

[cutter99]

Just remember y’all, we are potentially on DAY FIVE of our quest to become better board members and not provide fodder for obtuse and frustrating behaviors!

See how I did that??? Fodder!!! Like horses eat!

Hope you are all having a great Sunday!

[YankeeDuchess]

@cutter99

Just remember y’all, we are potentially on DAY FIVE of our quest to become better board members and not provide fodder for obtuse and frustrating behaviors!

See how I did that??? Fodder!!! Like horses eat!

Hope you are all having a great Sunday!

Why say “potentially”? You can declare it a win whatever happens. And I’m having a great Sunday!

[cutter99]

@Sdel

Day 4 was very productive. I deep cleaned my kitchen. Day 5 looks to be equally productive. I need to re-wrap my horses leg. She says stall rest sucks and tries to kick me out of the stall when I wrap. But, the heat is almost gone and it’s starting to look like it’s coming together.

Dang Sdel! She buggered that up pretty good! Horses, always looking for a way to destroy themselves! And yet we love them anyway!

[cutter99]

@Angela Freda

And a lawyer should know all that.

Could this have been some way of JK getting on public record that there was a dispute between LK and MB?

Shouldn’t everyone know, and particularly an attorney, that 911 is not a source that dispenses information?

[Jenerationx]

@cutter99

Could this have been some way of JK getting on public record that there was a dispute between LK and MB?

Shouldn’t everyone know, and particularly an attorney, that 911 is not a source that dispenses information?

Yes. They also know the tapes or at least a transcript can be subpoenaed.

[YankeeDuchess]

@cutter99

Could this have been some way of JK getting on public record that there was a dispute between LK and MB?

Shouldn’t everyone know, and particularly an attorney, that 911 is not a source that dispenses information?

 But wouldn’t JK probably have been aware of the four 911 calls that MB had made over the previous days, which seem to indicate pretty clearly the existence of a dispute? Or was this sarcasm?