Barisone/Kanarek Legal Filings (Public Record)

[YankeeDuchess]

@FitzE

When you get to the moment when you use survivors of rape and child abuse as human fodder to make your point, you have lost. And lost in every possible way that means anything. You are a profoundly bankrupt person.

Sorry to all the survivors who had to read that and to the poster targeted by those cheapest of cheap shots.

Some people have no shame, no sticking point, no bottom.

With that post, I certainly have a new perspective on what the people at the farm were living through and it’s deeply disturbing.

    She was making the valid point that 30 or 40 years sgo, victim blaming of some (not all) rape victims occurred in the form of making excuses for rapist along the lines of “she was wearing provocative clothes”, “she was dancing with him in a provocative manner, then shut him down”, or “she’s known to have slept with 20 men before”. That is, excusing the behavior of the rapist on the basis of “provocative” behavior of the victim. Words like “how could he be expected to control himself“ would be used. 

      Whether you think people here have been guilty of victim blaming or not, the analogy is definitely valid. 

       In some of the recent SS threads, the apologists for the men banned by SS, like Rob Gage, will say of the 13 or 14 year old victim “she was an absolutely willing participant because she wanted to ride the good horses”. 

      I am also the victim of rape. I was never subject to victim blaming because it was a case of forcible, stranger rape in which the rapist was never apprehended.

[YankeeDuchess]

@MorganSercu

Bumping for recent poster. Way back on page 10!

   My interpretation of that is that you can get treble damages for the actual damage incurred due to a botched job, KM seems to think that you can get 3 times the value of the job even if everything is done perfectly. 

    If the latter is true, one wonders why MB is not suing RG for $150,000.

[smoofox]

I will add that I am not an MB fan or apologist or supporter or whatever other label may get slapped on me by way of haughty rebuttal. I am not an LK fan or supporter or apologist either. I actually feel sorry for her when she constantly cuts off her nose to spite her face by way of SM ramblings.

Contrary to what some have insisted here, you do not have to be on any “side”. You can just sit back - and observe.

I suppose I must add that LK did not deserve to be shot… lest I get more labels haphazardly tossed at me in the hope that one of them will stick.

I just follow this thread the way I would follow an interesting Dateline episode (or sometimes it is more like Live PD) - only this case has connections to things I do in real life - dressage, horses, barn management etc. I know none of the players in real life. I was aware of who MB was - even before the funny Colbert episode. I do not care about the IDs of any posters here.

I am not a lawyer - I do not even play one on TV. If I was one, I would be more like Ally McBeal than Perry Mason.

ETA: I inadvertently lied. I knew SW of DH back she was in Alberta. Not a direct connection to this case - but there ya go.

[YankeeDuchess]

@MorganSercu

The bolding is mine - Lauren did advise him to start his own business (and get the LLC, I presume). He failed to get licensed in New Jersey though.

I quoted the entire post so it couldn’t be taken out of context. Not because I think the entire post is relevant to the remodeling/licensing points raised recently.

If he had been licensed in NJ in summer 2019, after forming the LLC in spring 2019, why would he keep is licensed status in NJ through 2020 if he left the state?

 Does finding that he is not currently have a contractors license in NJ establish that he did not have one in 2019?

[Sparky]

🚶Walk on by.

[skydy]

@eggbutt

Oh, dear! You forgot the parenthesis! Ann Elk, (Miss). Fixed it for you.

Fixed it in the post for you.

[YankeeDuchess]

@FitzE

Several posters have a logical fallacy problem. Two of these posters also use survivors of rape to make their point, which is repugnant, so it’s not surprising.

IF someone blames LK for being shot (most don’t, but assuming arguendo they do) it does not follow that they would blame anyone else for being shot. An even further and more repulsive reach is that they would blame a victim for being raped or abused. That reasoning fails even the most basic logic. It is simply the amoral use of crime victims to make a point and that is truly low.

The singular issue here is that there is a person who has made a name and reputation for herself in the small world of horse sports (and, it is worth noting, enjoys that same infamy outside the horse world, so it is a consistent trait of hers).

Through her active and admitted (and screen shot) behaviour - mockery, ridicule, bullying, name calling, vitriol, anger, revenge, insult - she has cultivated for herself and by her own choice a life in which there are now several of her victims and even more bystanders who deeply dislike and even fear her for legitimate reasons. In addition she has in her past: gun violence, assault, stalking, cyber stalking, a restraining order, a police record.

She herself has wished harm on people in bad situations in a truly depraved way (screen shot from the NYT article: LK wishes GJ to die of an overdose while mocking her about her dead child; she also speculated on what GJ was doing while her child drowned and LK described in lurid detail a sexual situation that LK imagined was going on during the time the child died - sounds very much like the victim blaming YD, IM, Dragonfly and others are so very concerned about).

Someone disliking this particular victim says absolutely nothing about how they view any other victim. This is especially true if such person is also one of LK’s victims. Suggesting it does is logically false, highly manipulative, and ultimately, the way it was done here, a poor reflection on those who have done it.

Shame on those who did it to make their point with not a single thought for the victims that had to read their self-serving blather.

   Eggbutt has written many posts blaming LK for being shot. The NYT article was explicitly about victim blaming as much as it was about the shooting itself. Eggbutt was quoted in the NYT article along with the even worse victim blaming of SW. 

    Who said that because Eggbutt is victim blaming LK they are accusing her of victim blaming other gun shot victims?  Or that she would blame rape victims?  I certainly have not said that or read anyone else who has said it. 

     I have also not denied the existence of really bad SM behavior on the part of LK. I’m just saying that documenting really, really disgusting behavior on her part does not in any way excuse MB for shooting her in exactly the same way that documenting flirty behavior, provocative clothes, or a history of sleeping around does not excuse rape. Furthermore, bringing it up and harping on it ad nauseum, by suggesting it is relevant, is suggesting that she is the one who is “responsible” for getting herself shot, i.e. victim blaming.

[x-halt-salute]

@YankeeDuchess

She was making the valid point that 30 or 40 years sgo, victim blaming of some (not all) rape victims occurred in the form of making excuses for rapist along the lines of “she was wearing provocative clothes”, “she was dancing with him in a provocative manner, then shut him down”, or “she’s known to have slept with 20 men before”. That is, excusing the behavior of the rapist on the basis of “provocative” behavior of the victim. Words like “how could he be expected to control himself“ would be used.

Whether you think people here have been guilty of victim blaming or not, the analogy is definitely valid.

In some of the recent SS threads, the apologists for the men banned by SS, like Rob Gage, will say of the 13 or 14 year old victim “she was an absolutely willing participant because she wanted to ride the good horses”.

I am also the victim of rape. I was never subject to victim blaming because it was a case of forcible, stranger rape in which the rapist was never apprehended.

Stop. Just stop.

First of all, “she was wearing provocative clothes” is not something relegated to “30 or 40 years ago”. Women and girls right now are getting told that wearing a tight top or not being careful enough about which friends they trust or getting drunk makes them responsible for their own sexual assault.

Second of all, there is a huge difference between those things and the many other mistakes, disadvantages and misfortunes that make women vulnerable to sexual assault, and on the other hand an ugly and escalating conflict between two actively engaged quarrelers leading to violence. There is no conceivable situation in which a man might need to rape someone to defend himself from provocative behavior, but there are many conceivable situations in which someone might take up a weapon in an attempt to defend themself from threats of violence by an aggrieved party who has declared publicly that they are in possession of firearms. Wondering whether self-defense against the victim factored into a series of events that led to a violent crime is always absurd in the case of rape and often within the realm of reason in a two-sided conflict between volatile characters.

Third, I’m sorry you were raped. That’s horrible. But that doesn’t make you the spokesperson for sexual assault survivors nor does it give you a license to declare that what LK faces in this thread is similar to what many of us have experienced in the wake of sexual assaults.

Signed,
Someone who apparently reaped what she sowed by wearing a tanktop and drinking an alcoholic beverage in mixed company but has never made threats against another person’s physical safety, family, or livelihood

[YankeeDuchess]

@enjoytheride

This has been addressed to you before, but Safesport absolutely does investigate bullying of adults.

Yes, I understand that people have asserted that. But has there been any publicly available evidence that they investigate bullying of adults, such as suspensions or bans bring handed down? There has been evidence that USEF investigated bullying of adults, and it seems odd to me that the task would be split between the two, but not inconceivable, I suppose.

So what is the basis for your saying “absolutely”? Genuine question.

[YankeeDuchess]

@smoofox

I am not going to quote it again… but that lengthy discourse from Inigo Montoya (you would have been better served using Vizzini as your screen name) was both eye-opening and appalling. You clearly do have a dog (or an entire pack) in this fight and are not just concerned about “the sport of Equestrian”. Odd phrasing, that.

Just wow.

When we start getting lectured about JFK’s assassination as a way of proving Something Or Other and get into cavalier comments about rape victims, this thread has reached a new low. Unbelievable.

And yet apparently that post received tacit approval from those posters who constantly correct and dismiss other posts and insist that the thread stay rigidly on topic and all posts should be speculation-free etc. etc.

Again, wow.

   I explicitly, not just tacitly, endorse the analogy with victim blaming of rape victims.

[FitzE]

@x-halt-salute

Stop. Just stop.

First of all, “she was wearing provocative clothes” is not something relegated to “30 or 40 years ago”. Women and girls right now are getting told that wearing a tight top or not being careful enough about which friends they trust or getting drunk makes them responsible for their own sexual assault.

Second of all, there is a huge difference between those things and the many other mistakes, disadvantages and misfortunes that make women vulnerable to sexual assault, and on the other hand an ugly and escalating conflict between two actively engaged quarrelers leading to violence. There is no conceivable situation in which a man might need to rape someone to defend himself from provocative behavior, but there are many conceivable situations in which someone might take up a weapon in an attempt to defend themself from threats of violence by an aggrieved party who has declared publicly that they are in possession of firearms. Wondering whether self-defense against the victim factored into a series of events that led to a violent crime is always absurd in the case of rape and often within the realm of reason in a two-sided conflict between volatile characters.

Third, I’m sorry you were raped. That’s horrible. But that doesn’t make you the spokesperson for sexual assault survivors nor does it give you a license to declare that what LK faces in this thread is similar to what many of us have experienced in the wake of sexual assaults.

Signed,
Someone who apparently reaped what she sowed by wearing a tanktop and drinking an alcoholic beverage in mixed company but has never made threats against another person’s physical safety, family, or livelihood

Now this truly is a mic drop. Thank you for your perspective and your bravery in the face of an onslaught of nonsense since last night.

[Callista17]

@YankeeDuchess

And in jury selection, when they ask you if you think you can be impartial, what would you say? What you just said here?

IGNORE! See Cutter99?!?!

[cutter99]

@Callista17

IGNORE! See Cutter99?!?!

Yay Callista17!

I am just sitting here shocked at some of the things that have been posted here since I went to bed last night. WOW!

[YankeeDuchess]

@FitzE

[bolding mine] This. LK and that poster always get a free, unexamined, and unchallenged pass on really bad behaviour by their “cohort” on here.

The hardest thing for some folks to grasp is: many/most observers feel unsympathetic toward LK solely b/c of LK. That’s not the same as thinking she deserved to get shot, nor is it the same as blaming her for getting shot. It’s a lack of sympathy towards someone who has positioned herself as a standard bearer for lack of sympathy - and who stands by - nay, doubles down on - that persona when challenged.

It’s easy to try to diminish that fact by braying on about people being MB fans, MB apologists, victim blamers, etc. But it doesn’t change the fact that that’s mostly not true. People are reacting to LK herself - her behaviour, her history of hurting people, her reputation within the community for destruction and hate, her lengthy on-line documentation of her own behaviour.

She herself has bragged about this behaviour and her reputation. She has shamed victims. She has threatened people and gloated about it. She has publicly disparaged people’s skills, personalities, and professional lives (even bringing in their ethnicity for a little extra racism dog whistle to add to her attempt to ruin their business). She has never been shy about any of this, so why ignore it?

<Mad, bad, and dangerous to know; you wouldn’t want to meet me in an alley; I’m not responsible for what my other personalities do; mention of her guns; > just some of the stuff we’ve all seen here.

I guess it’s easier to call people victim blamers than deal with your own favourite victim blamer’s documented behaviour, most of which does not hold up in the light of day and, in many instances, demonstrates behaviour you are accusing posters here of displaying.

Why is it so important to go on and on and on about how much and why you dislike LK, if her actions prior to being shot are 100% irrelevant to the fact of her being shot?

By harping on her dislikabity so much, you are suggesting if not outright stating that it is her actions that are the causal mechanism by which she is responsible for the fact she got shot, ruined the lives of MB, MHG, etc.

[trubandloki]

@cutter99

Yay Callista17!

I am just sitting here shocked at some of the things that have been posted here since I went to bed last night. WOW!

You should not be shocked. The whole point - in my opinion - is to get people upset so they either report the poster or call names (back at the poster) so the thread will get locked. So notching up the rudeness one step should not be a shock to you at all.

[cutter99]

@trubandloki

You should not be shocked. The whole point - in my opinion - is to get people upset so they either report the poster or call names (back at the poster) so the thread will get locked. So notching up the rudeness one step should not be a shock to you at all.

You are 100% correct. Sadly, that is what we are dealing with here!

[trubandloki]

Hey legal people I have a question.

I believe it was said earlier that in those papers we have been linked to the responses do not need to be full of truths. (I think the example given in this thread is LK’s lawyer has said denied about some things that LK has actually admitted to doing.) And that the untruths are just how it is done.

Why is it OK? Why is it done that way? Why are there no repercussions for not being honest about things that are clearly not honest?

Is it just a matter of (made up example) He says she bullied him, she says denied because she does not feel what she did was bullying, so there is some grey area?

[YankeeDuchess]

@x-halt-salute

Stop. Just stop.

First of all, “she was wearing provocative clothes” is not something relegated to “30 or 40 years ago”. Women and girls right now are getting told that wearing a tight top or not being careful enough about which friends they trust or getting drunk makes them responsible for their own sexual assault.

Second of all, there is a huge difference between those things and the many other mistakes, disadvantages and misfortunes that make women vulnerable to sexual assault, and on the other hand an ugly and escalating conflict between two actively engaged quarrelers leading to violence. There is no conceivable situation in which a man might need to rape someone to defend himself from provocative behavior, but there are many conceivable situations in which someone might take up a weapon in an attempt to defend themself from threats of violence by an aggrieved party who has declared publicly that they are in possession of firearms. Wondering whether self-defense against the victim factored into a series of events that led to a violent crime is always absurd in the case of rape and often within the realm of reason in a two-sided conflict between volatile characters.

Third, I’m sorry you were raped. That’s horrible. But that doesn’t make you the spokesperson for sexual assault survivors nor does it give you a license to declare that what LK faces in this thread is similar to what many of us have experienced in the wake of sexual assaults.

Signed,
Someone who apparently reaped what she sowed by wearing a tanktop and drinking an alcoholic beverage in mixed company but has never made threats against another person’s physical safety, family, or livelihood

I understand girls and women are being told that in order avoid putting themselves at risk for rape, they should not wear overly sexy clothes, not be so drunk that they lose control of the situation, etc.

I was saying that 40 years ago, after the fact of a rape, arguments would be made in court regarding provocative clothes, provocative behavior, and sexual behavior in order to blame the victim. Are you saying that explicit excuses for rape, after the rape occurred, are still bring made in court along those lines?

So are you saying that you reaped what you sowed and were raped and you think you should be blamed for your own rape (reaped what you sowed)? Genuine question.

[Ghazzu]

@Inigo-montoya

I didn’t think I’d have to expound upon my theory …I plainly said from the start it was my THEORY. … Remember…this is just my theory.
…again…just my theory.

OK, I’m going to speculate that this poster is actually Anne Elk.

[trubandloki]

Sorry ahead, I am failing at scrolling past. I know… I know… But this level of rudeness can not be ignored. Which I realize just proves that YD is trying to be rude just to get comments.

@YankeeDuchess

So are you saying that you reaped what you sowed and were raped and you think you should be blamed for your own rape (reaped what you sowed)? Genuine question.

Not even close to a Genuine question and you are well aware of just how rude your question is.
Or maybe not. :disgust:
Oh wait, this is a case of the pretend inability to actually tell what someone is saying, right?

There is self defense… that applies to the whole shooting thing. So the relationship between the victim and the shooter matters. The whole battered person syndrome thing.

There is never, not ever, not even slightly a reason for someone to ever rape another person. Period.