Barisone/Kanarek Legal Filings (Public Record)

[Omgitsme]

@x-halt-salute

YD, what you’ve said in this thread and others on this forum disgusts me more deeply than anything else I’ve encountered on the internet. And I’ve been on Reddit.

Your insistence on a dichotomy between well-meaning advice to women on being pro-active about safety versus victim blaming in criminal trials minimizes the experiences of the vast majority of sexual assault and rape survivors in an appalling way. If you are truly here to play the role of a victims’ advocate, that should nauseate you just as much as it does all of those who’ve spoken up about your disgraceful posts.

Your recent focus on distancing your own experience from those of women you think have made choices that make them more vulnerable to rape, like “sexy dress” or “intoxication” also belies your real interest in supporting victims in the abstract and fighting against victim blaming. You appear to have interpreted my own mention of a tank-top and a drink to mean a tight, sexy tank-top and drinking to intoxication, which again betrays your real position on blaming people for the violence perpetrated against them. No surprise there, but it does nothing but undermine your claims about supporting victims of violence in the abstract and protecting them from undeserved blame.

You say you’ve apologized to me, and perhaps you have, but if so I didn’t notice it among the pages of blathering about how I and others must misunderstand your analogy that equates speculation on this thread regarding the escalation of a two-sided conflict to victim blaming specifically in the context of criminal proceedings for rape cases. All I see is insistence that I must have misinterpreted you, and failure to respond to any of the logical arguments that have been presented against your pitiful analogy.

I expect you’ll delete your original horrid post to save face. Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a darn. I offer my perspective not because I have any interest in your attention or others’, but because what you’ve said here is inconsistent with and disrespectful to the lived experience of victims of violent assault, whose interest you claim to represent.

Thank you so much for saying that. No, we absolutely should not need to be teaching women how not to get raped. You don’t minimize your chances by dressing yourself in conservatively. You minimize your chances by teaching boys that they are not entitled to anyone else’s body. It should never even be asked what she was wearing, what she had to drink, if she was walking alone at night, etc.

[Omgitsme]

@Wind Horse

It’s horrifying to know that in this small sample of posters there are several rape victims. With empathy, I offer my thanks to each of you for sharing your stories.
In no way do I compare the ridiculous circumstances in this rodeo from hell to your experiences. Best wishes for healing.

In regards to LK and MB, I really think they do share similar personality traits. It’s like when two fools met. Gasoline on the fire. Neither of which would ever consider backing down or compromising. Push, push, push, from both sides. Why keep up the confrontation?
I know none of the parties involved. I’m in the camp of placing equal blame. No, LK should not have been shot.

Thank you for the kind words. Seeing so many women all on one thread is a horrible reminder of the “1 in 4 women” statistic for rape. It may even be higher now, but that’s where it was when I was a freshman in college.

[Danvers]

@Mardi

“Equestrian celebrity”.
Like William Shatner ?? He’s about as big time as they come.
I don’t know any equestrians who became celebrities.

RIGHT! I got confused when she typed that … I thought there was a “celebrity” rider who killed two people that I had not heard about - but then realized it was MB she was referring to. I didn’t know top riders were concidered celebrities…

[eggbutt]

@Mardi

“Equestrian celebrity”.
Like William Shatner ?? He’s about as big time as they come.
I don’t know any equestrians who became celebrities.

Carson Kressley
Patrick Swayze
Andrea Bocelli

[LilRanger]

@Denali6298

You could be our host?

Possibly…ok yes!

[Omgitsme]

@Mardi

“Equestrian celebrity”.
Like William Shatner ?? He’s about as big time as they come.
I don’t know any equestrians who became celebrities.

Clearly MB is a celebrity because he was on Colbert’s show.

[skydy]

@eggbutt

Carson Kressley
Patrick Swayze
Andrea Bocelli

They were celebrities first, before they became equestrians, were they not?

[ohnoO]

@eggbutt

Have no fear…the “threadstarter” will tell you!!!

I love you!

(Although I’m more of a D-ring gal, myself, I do have some really old eggbutt’s in my big old trunk!)

[eggbutt]

@skydy

They were celebrities first, before they became equestrians, were they not?

I think Carson grew up riding Saddlebreds and Arabians. Andrea and Patrick were after they were famous I believe.

[eggbutt]

[QUOTE=ohnoO;n10632055]

I love you!

(Although I’m more of a D-ring gal, myself, I do have some really old eggbutt’s in my big old trunk!)[/QUOTE

I’ve been Snaffle before too. Love those easy bits!

[Danvers]

@Knights Mom

There you go advocating for victims again. Well done you!! Nothing like telling a victim of domestic violence where it’s at.

You advocate for victims so well I sit here in absolute awe of you.

Advocate for victims my ass. You’ve just outed your true agenda. And I know you will deny deny deny but odds are I won’t bother responding to you.

Thank you, KM. Thank you.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Gestalt

“If you think that advising a woman on proactive measures she can talk to reduce the probability that she is a victim is, in and of itself, victim blaming, that is where we disagree.”

Hmm… I read this and said - call me obtuse but I’m not seeing a big difference from advising someone to get away from the person that you think is trying to kill you. What am I missing?

If this is an honest question, then:

If LK had been a friend of mine and described the situation she was in and explained that she thought the civil courts would uphold her side of the dispute and even if I thought she “had right on her side” morally and ethically, I would have advised her: given that this is looking not just hideously stressful, but actually dangerous, it’s not worth it to put yourself at risk. Give him what he wants and get out of there.”

Whether someone advised her of that or not, she chose to stay. She got shot. Just because there was a simple expedient way of reducing her risk ex ante, and she chose not to take it, none of that is any excuse, not 100%, not 50%, not 10% for MB having shot her. So saying that she knowingly made objective decisions that made her vulnerable to physical danger is not at all the same thing as saying she is morally responsible for getting herself shot.

I feel very strongly that I have the legal and moral right to walk down a deserted street at 2 am, to wear clothes that make me feel sexy and attractive, and to enjoy alcohol responsibly. Nevertheless, I may choose to deny myself some of those things to some extent to reduce the probability that I am a victim of rape, or assault, or robbery. If I, or a acquaintance or relative, chooses to have 5 drinks instead of 2, and a criminal commits a crime (rape, robbery, murder) against me, the blame is still 100% on the person who commits the crime. It is not my moral or legal responsibility to avoid being an easy target, but I may rationally choose to avoid being an easy target.

Obviously, in retrospect, there are things LK could have done to avoid what happened. But it is not her legal or moral responsibility to avoid causing emotional stress to MB. (Well, perhaps in the civil case, he can sue her for the emotional stress.) But in the criminal case, it’s 100% his responsibility to refrain from “taking his life back” with a gun, no matter what the provocation. (Unless it was self defense, which I don’t believe.)

So that’s why I continue to think the analogy with victim blaming of rape victims is an appropriate analogy. Not long ago I gave my own daughter the above advice on what she could do to proactively avoid being a victim of rape. I certainly don’t think she is a slut or a tease or a drunk. If she had taken some risks and been the victim of rape, I would not have suggested she was at fault. Why some people seem to think victim blaming of rape victims is horrible, yet victim blaming of the victim of attempted murder is OK if the victim is sufficiently unlikeable makes no sense to me.

[Angela_Freda]

@YankeeDuchess

No one has said that anyone who dislikes LK is automatically guilty of victim blaming just for expressing dislike, however intense. At least I haven’t. The issue is whether the poster makes statements suggesting that because LK exhibited annoying and obnoxious behavior that created stress and emotional pain to MB and/or MHG and refused to leave, that she should “take responsibility” for being shot.

Where. Quote a post that suggests this.

[Denali6298]

@Angela Freda

Where. Quote a post that suggests this.

I cringe saying this because I’m not trying to defend YD, but they got deleted in the first thread. It actually was stated. Now how YD knows about them is beyond me, but they were there.

People later apologized.

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

If this is an honest question, then:

If LK had been a friend of mine and described the situation she was in and explained that she thought the civil courts would uphold her side of the dispute and even if I thought she “had right on her side” morally and ethically, I would have advised her: given that this is looking not just hideously stressful, but actually dangerous, it’s not worth it to put yourself at risk. Give him what he wants and get out of there.”

Whether someone advised her of that or not, she chose to stay. She got shot. Just because there was a simple expedient way of reducing her risk ex ante, and she
chose not to take it, none of that is any excuse, not 100%, not 50%, not 10% for MB having shot her. So saying that she knowingly made objective decisions that made her vulnerable to physical danger is not at all the same thing as saying she is morally responsible for getting herself shot.

I feel very strongly that I have the legal and moral right to walk down a deserted street at 2 am, to wear clothes that make me feel sexy and attractive, and to enjoy alcohol responsibly. Nevertheless, I may choose to deny myself some of those things to some extent to reduce the probability that I am a victim of rape, or assault, or robbery. If I, or a acquaintance or relative, chooses to have 5 drinks instead of 2, and a criminal commits a crime (rape, robbery, murder) against me, the blame is still 100% on the person who commits the crime. It is not my moral or legal responsibility to avoid being an easy target, but I may rationally chose to avoid being an easy target.

Obviously, in retrospect, there are things LK could have done to avoid what happened. But it is not her legal or moral responsibility to avoid causing emotional stress to MB. Well, perhaps in the civil case, he can sue her for the emotional stress. But in the criminal case, it’s his 100% his responsibility to refrain from “taking his life back” with a gun, no matter what the provocation. (Unless it was self defense, which I don’t believe.)

So that’s why I continue to think the analogy with victim blaming of rape victims is an appropriate analogy. Why some people seem to think victim blaming of rape victims is horrible, yet victim blaming of the victim of attempted murder is OK if the victim is sufficiently unlikeable makes.no sense to me.

People can say LK is a worthless human being and still think she should not have gotten shot. That’s what you are missing. LK is not someone I would want contact with or have any involvement with. That doesn’t mean I think she deserved to get shot. MB is also not someone I ever want contact with. MB is not someone I would ever ride with or do business with because he shot someone. That’s just me.

The rape analogy is not a good one no matter how many times you try to explain it. Quite frankly we don’t care to understand your logic. What YOU need to understand is most here think LK’s behavior is completely unacceptable and criminal. That doesn’t mean we condone the shooting.

[eggbutt]

@Angela Freda

Where. Quote a post that suggests this.

I have said repeatedly that LK should be held accountable for her actions. Is that the same as taking responsibility for HER actions? Absolutely. I have NEVER said she should take responsibility for being shot. She should have left the property that was not hers, she had no business staying and had plenty of options to leave. She should not have filed false reports to SS or CPS or made up stories about black SUVs. She should not have illegally wired the premises for her own surveillance. She should not have posted hateful, harassing, provocative posts on social media to gain attention. There’s a lot she should not have done and should be held accountable for all of her nasty actions.

The thing is, Lauren Kanarek has never taken responsibility for ANY of her actions. She’s always been bailed out by daddy.

I refuse to give YD the time of day," but this snippet from her last post is incredibly disgusting, “But it is not her legal or moral responsibility to avoid causing emotional stress to MB.” WTH??? Why this woman is still allowed to post is beyond me.

[Jenerationx]

I just typed an incredibly long post, backspaced it, and I’m going to step away for a bit. Some of these posts are absolutely reprehensible not to mention irrelevant to any situation between MB and LK.

[FitzE]

@Denali6298

I cringe saying this because I’m not trying to defend YD, but they got deleted in the first thread. It actually was stated. Now how YD knows about them is beyond me, but they were there.

People later apologized.

Yes, but she’s been banging on about it for three threads now.

I agree with the other poster: put up or shut up. Show where people in this thread or even the last said that or stop banging on and on and on and on about it.

And when she finds that text evidence, she may target those accusations to those exact posters. She must leave the rest of us out of her fantasist palaver. Garbage in, garbage out, and I’ve had enough garbage for a lifetime from that quarter. She must stop painting us all with that brush. It’s BS and it’s tiresome and it’s dishonest and, most importantly, patently untrue. And she knows it.

[Denali6298]

@FitzE

Yes, but she’s been banging on about it for three threads now.

I agree with the other poster: put up or shut up. Show where people in this thread or even the last said that or stop banging on and on and on and on about it.

And when she finds that text evidence, she may target those accusations to those exact posters. She must leave the rest of us out of her fantasist palaver. Garbage in, garbage out, and I’ve had enough garbage for a lifetime from that quarter. She must stop painting us all with that brush. It’s BS and it’s tiresome and it’s dishonest and, most importantly, patently untrue. And she knows it.

You’re right. But there is evidence of it in the other threads.

[Angela_Freda]

Advise women to proactively avoid making themselves vulnerable to rape

• point out that dressing too sexy,
• Being significantly inebriated, n
• having access to their own means of transportation
• walking alone in a sparsely traveled place at night
  … all reduce the statistical chance that they are the victim of a crime like rape

But all the harassing actions of LK had nowt to do with the escalation of the situation on that farm?t
Didn’t increase the statistical chance that someone she was pushing might reach a limit and snap?

If pointing out the latter is victim blaming, so is the former, toots.