Barisone- New Thread

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

A bullet went through the window.

When? Do you know it went thru the window that day? Do you know it went thru the window from that gun? Did it magically suck up its casing?

[EADoug]

@MorganSercu

Lets says NGI and he is evetually released.
If he is covered by the ADA can SS legally prevent him from being given all the rights and privileges of any other member due to a diagnosis? Do they require medical disclosure of other members?

I have absolutely no clue. That’s a rules / SS question I’m not capable of answering.

My mind is just going back to my many years working with people with schizophrenia and psychosis and their families. A productive and fulfilling life for people suffering from these particular mental health issues no where approaches running a 40+ stall high caliber training facility.

As always, I’m HAPPY to be proven wrong. I’m not wishing for MB to continue having difficulties. I’m just finding it hard to read the posts about him returning back to coaching right away as if that’s a realistic possibility.

[ohnoO]

Barney Ward, etal. were banned long before SS and were no longer USEF members so SS would not apply, I would think.

I did not follow the SS thread for long, but IIRC, SS really didn’t chime in on censuring others for riding with SS banned trainers until GM came along. Were they cracking down on that before GM’s ban?

[Jealoushe]

@trubandloki

When? Do you know it went thru the window that day? Do you know it went thru the window from that gun? Did it magically suck up its casing?

Did they not show evidence, the window, the saddle pads with the markings?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@supernatural

Ummmm I don’t think people with mental health problems should be discriminated against. I don’t think he should be banned from Safesport because he “ might” have a psychotic episode. You would be surprised how many athletes suffer from mental health issues

Agreed.

And again… SafeSport doesn’t exist to oversee ALL safety concerns in sports. It’s focused on those related to minor athletes, and abuse. Sexual, Physical (you have to understand some of what has happened with gymnastics to fully grasp that), and emotional.

They can and do look at relationships with adult coaches and athletes/employees where there is a power imbalance, and can weigh in on conflicts in those situations as well, if a situation merits it. But it’s not the central mission of SafeSport.

The Barisone case MIGHT be analyzed in terms of involving a coach - student relationship that ended in violence. But… if MB is found not guilty, or NGI, in a criminal proceeding where the burden of proof is even higher than SafeSport’s… I just don’t see how/why they would continue with a ban or suspension. Except for a narrow one, that pertained to him and LK having no contact when attending any recognized competition. They have handed down many of these very specific “no contact” type of sanctions between specific competitors and coaches in other cases. We just don’t hear about them as much. SafeSport is much bigger than equestrian sports, and a look at their entire database of sanctions, including those in other sports, is very enlightening.

And… there are tons of people actively participating in equestrian sports with significant mental health issues, and criminal records. Just something to consider. Bans from sport really only impact specific people in specific situations, for specific criminal violations.

[LexInVA]

If acquitted, his ban would continue unless SafeSport deems him not to be a threat to others. The code specifies that regardless of a criminal conviction or outcome of a criminal or misdemeanor charge, SafeSport has the irrevocable discretion and authority to deem someone unsuitable for continued participation in a sport, based on their own opinion of what information they have in front of them. What that means is that unless it becomes clear, through evidence or someone else’s confession, that he did not shoot LK or attempt to shoot RG, he’s stuck with a permanent ban. That also means that they can kick LK to the curb, based on her own testimony in the trial and whatever reports are filed with them.

As for others who have records not being banned by SafeSport, you have to remember that they only find out that someone has a record of charges/convictions, if it’s brought to their attention through a report, as there is no background check with mandatory reporting to SafeSport until you get to a high-level of association with the USEF that most individuals will never reach. That’s why some individuals have recently run afoul of SafeSport and become banned, due to someone recognizing or learning that they have had convictions of sex crimes or violence against other people or animals.

[hut-ho78]

@trubandloki

@hut-ho78

A bullet went through the window.

When? Do you know it went thru the window that day? Do you know it went thru the window from that gun? Did it magically suck up its casing?

Have you ever tried to collect shell casings after firing? They bounce and roll and get stepped on and disappear.

[MorganSercu]

He operated at an extremely high level with major depressive issues (and we all know psychosis can occur with deep depression too). He did it once before. He may be able to do it again. Maybe not 40 stalls or as many clients in-house but who knows?

[BigMama1]

@MorganSercu

Lets says NGI and he is evetually released.
If he is covered by the ADA can SS legally prevent him from being given all the rights and privileges of any other member due to a diagnosis? Do they require medical disclosure of other members?

I think the SafeSport ban is simply because of the felony charges. If he’s convicted, the ban will remain. If he’s not convicted, it should be lifted.

[BigMama1]

@hut-ho78

A bullet went through the window. It’s just the creative alternative facts posters here who say there is no evidence.

And what evidence is there that MB fired that shot, or even that it was a third shot and not one of the 2 that hit LK? What evidence is there that shot was aimed at RG? What evidence is there that it was fired in a deliberate attempt to kill RG as opposed to going off in a struggle?

[Maude]

Guessing there is no way to find out if the jury is back until after the fact?

[Jealoushe]

@Maude

Guessing there is no way to find out if the jury is back until after the fact?

If you have Twitter you can follow for notifications

https://twitter.com/lawcrimeverdict

[BigMama1]

@ohnoO

I did not follow the SS thread for long, but IIRC, SS really didn’t chime in on censuring others for riding with SS banned trainers until GM came along. Were they cracking down on that before GM’s ban?

GM is still giving clinics. Have yet to hear of any rider being sanctioned by USEF for participating in them.

[Maude]

Yes, but it conceivably been one of the projectiles that passed through LK.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@LexInVA

If acquitted, his ban would continue unless SafeSport deems him not to be a threat to others. The code specifies that regardless of a criminal conviction or outcome of a criminal or misdemeanor charge, SafeSport has the irrevocable discretion and authority to deem someone unsuitable for continued participation in a sport, based on their own opinion of what information they have in front of them. What that means is that unless it becomes clear, through evidence or someone else’s confession, that he did not shoot LK or attempt to shoot RG, he’s stuck with a permanent ban.

Interesting. So he couldn’t appeal his ban post trial, if he is found NG?

Did he ever have an opportunity to go through an appeal process related to his ban?

[Maude]

It is conceivable that it was one of the projectiles that passed through LK

[Jealoushe]

@Maude

Yes, but it conceivably been one of the projectiles that passed through LK.

That wasn’t the question though, it was simply a challenge that a bullet went through the window, which there is evidence it did, and testimony to support it.

[BigMama1]

@Jealoushe

Did they not show evidence, the window, the saddle pads with the markings?

The evidence seems to show a bullet went through that window. At some point. With no shell casing there’s no evidence it came from that specific gun on that specific day. There is no evidence to show definitively who fired that shot if it was on that day, and if it was deliberately aimed at someone or a gun that went off in a struggle.

How do the photos of the window and the saddle pads answer any of those questions?

[trubandloki]

@hut-ho78

Have you ever tried to collect shell casings after firing?

Yes. I make sure to pick up all the casings after firing.

@hut-ho78

They bounce and roll and get stepped on and disappear.

Isn’t that what metal detectors are for? Don’t the police have one of those? Didn’t they say they used one?

[enjoytheride]

Yes, just picked up shell casings after range day and I’m not trying to document a crime, if I was I’d certainly make sure I found all the shell casings! While a bullet may have gone through a window, there isn’t evidence to support that it went through that window during the struggle between MB and LK. It may have. It may not have, that is why we can’t count it as hard proof.