Barisone- New Thread

[anon6923113]

Truly deep depression involving a psychotic break, as can happen during postpartum depression, is terrifying. Depression runs in my family. One of my female relatives actually tried to commit suicide, at home, during a postpartum period, a few months after giving birth to her 3rd child, when she also had two older toddlers in the house, along with the baby.

None of the children were harmed. The suicide attempt was interrupted, and she was briefly institutionalized. But… the whole thing? Really terrifying.

[caffeinated]

@FitzE

Having a gun or even bringing a gun somewhere in no way proves that you shot it should it at some point be shot.

Fair, and the jury has to sort that out. To my mind, the simplest and most direct explanation is MB pulling the trigger because the only evidence available points in that direction. (And no, that’s not me hoping he’s “put away” or being an LK fan, LOL)

[RND]

@EADoug

I took the time to do some transcription tonight (see my above post). According to Judge Taylor, you are incorrect.

If Bilinkas didn’t present evidence to the jury that someone other than MB shot LK, then he was admitting that MB shot LK even if he didn’t actually say those words. Come on, is this not obvious? If you are a defense attorney and you want the jury to think someone else did the shooting, aren’t you going to spend at least a minute or two presenting that scenario with some evidence? Or are you going to expect the jury to make up that story all by themselves based on no evidence at all (which they are not allowed to do, by the way)?

[EADoug]

I also lean towards the lessor charges. Not sure how it will go.

[skydy]

I listened again to the Judge’s instructions to see if I remembered correctly. He was rather unclear (again) so, I could be mistaken. Bless his heart, he didn’t even give the jury instructions about choosing a foreman. By the time he noticed that he had forgotten to do that, a court officer informed the judge that the jury had chosen a foreman themselves.

I believe that if you are found by a jury to be insane on the most serious charge, that you must logically be considered insane on the lesser charges. You were either insane at the time or you weren’t. However, the law is a mysterious thing, isn’t it?

[Fat_Dinah]

Under the charge that EA posted, the jury would consider aggravated assault BEFORE consider insanity. It is the diminished capacity that lowers the charge from attempted murder.
The reasoning would be Barisone did shoot LK with lethal force but his diminished capacity removed the intent required for murder.
So, the jury has likely found murder or assault proved but now must weigh his state of mind and ability to recognize his actions.

[jaj]

you’re – if you are going to be snarky, you should always proofread before posting.

[StB.YM]

I watched the charge hearing the other day, but was also busy with work, so I missed many parts of the judge’s instructions to the jury. Could the jury decide NG for the attempted murder charges and separately, NGI for the weapon charges? Or would they have to go NGI for all 4 charges if taking that path?

[anon6923113]

@Fat_Dinah

Under the charge that EA posted, the jury would consider aggravated assault BEFORE consider insanity. It is the diminished capacity that lowers the charge from attempted murder.
The reasoning would be Barisone did shoot LK with lethal force but his diminished capacity removed the intent required for murder.
So, the jury has likely found murder or assault proved but now must weigh his state of mind and ability to recognize his actions

So if they found diminished capacity, it would mean attempted murder dropped to aggravated assault, but if they weigh his full state of mind and Simring’s testimony, they may still find NGI?

It seems like they could then possibly find:

1. Ag assault plus the gun charge

Or

2. NGI

[RND]

@Fat_Dinah

Under the charge that EA posted, the jury would consider aggravated assault BEFORE consider insanity. It is the diminished capacity that lowers the charge from attempted murder.
The reasoning would be Barisone did shoot LK with lethal force but his finished capacity removed the intent required for murder.
So, the jury has likely found murder or assault proved but now must weigh his state of mind and ability to recognize his actions.

Yes, I understand all this, which is why I asked why EADoug assumed the jury was considering insanity and not aggravated assault.

[Fat_Dinah]

Yes, either assault or murder, both could be NGI.
I think if they find assault or murder proven, they have to find the weapons charge proven. Would it also be NGI?
I really have no clear opinion.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

I’m thinking straight not guilty on attempted murder & agg assault and not guilty by reason of insanity on the gun charges.

[EADoug]

That’s not how it works though. If they end up at either attempted murder OR aggravated assault, they THEN move to consider insanity.

[Djones]

@hut-ho78

Yes, it is common for contractors to pull permits but it is usually part of the agreement. The owner has to sign something.

Is that NJ law? I ask because my DH is an electrical contractor in Alabama and there is nothing in the permit process here that involves the homeowner in terms of signing anything or being involved in the process…except for paying it when invoiced for it.

[Knights_Mom]

The jury. It may hang.

[Fat_Dinah]

They may have found aggravated assault proven. It would have to be after finding murder not proven and before deciding insanity.
If they find murder proven, they go to insanity.
If they find murder not proven and assault proven, then they go to insanity.
If they find murder not proven and assault not proven, they don’t take up insanity at all.

[Fat_Dinah]

How do they find him not guilty of committing a crime and then guilty of using a weapon in a crime?

[RND]

@EADoug

That’s not how it works though. If they end up at either attempted murder OR aggravated assault, they THEN move to consider insanity.

Then where does diminished capacity come in? I thought that was the alternative to insanity because the judge kept saying he didn’t think the defense had proven insanity, but diminished capacity was more likely. So I thought the lesser charge was aggravated assault due to diminished capacity, and if he is found guilty of that then attempted murder and insanity are off the table. I also thought that the insanity plea only applied to the attempted murder charge and not the gun charges but I could totally be wrong because I am not a lawyer and I also don’t know anyone who ever shot anyone so I don’t really know how to interpret a lot of what is going on in court.

[Rhythm_Pace_Impulsion]

The gun possession charge is a crime in and of itself.

[MHM]

@hut-ho78

Rowdy has been a model of decorum.

Insulting every lawyer who posted on the thread and calling people cockroaches counts as a model of decorum?

Interesting point of view.