Barisone- New Thread

[MHM]

Well, bless your heart again.

[hut-ho78]

@hut-ho78

(d) Application for a permit shall be made by the owner, or his or her agent, a licensed engineer, architect, plumbing, electrical, heating, ventilation, air conditioning, and refrigeration, or other contractor employed in connection with the proposed work. If the application is by a person other than the owner, it shall be accompanied by an affidavit of the owner or the authorized person making the application, that the proposed work is authorized by the owner, and that the applicant is authorized to make such application. All issued permits shall remain the property of the owner, even if the application was made by a contractor or authorized agent. https://casetext.com/regulation/new-jersey-administrative-code/title-5-community-affairs/chapter-23-uniform-construction-code/subchapter-2-administration-and-enforcement-process/section-523-215-construction-permits-application

@Djones this is also post 1765 this thread.

[MHM]

@skydy

As far as the civil suit is concerned, I think LK is making a big mistake in pursuing it. The discovery will be so damaging.

It’s astonishing to think anything could come out that would make matters even worse. But…

[FitzE]

Thank you for answering! I admit that I felt the same as you: it’s likely he did, it seems the most obvious explanation, etc. But when I saw the evidence - or lack thereof - I had so much doubt.

@RND and @hut-ho78 - what would your answers be? Would you find your own loved one guilty on the evidence presented?

Again, no right or wrong answer. The driver’s family in our case obviously had so much love but also admitted that the evidence was clear: driver was guilty. It was really sad.

[skydy]

The jury in this criminal case did not hear the worst of it.

In the civil case almost all of the dirt will be admissible.

[FitzE]

@RND

I get a whole lot of replies here that have nothing to do with my posts and yes, that bothers me.

You replied to me about someone telling you you were drinking. It had ‘nothing to do with my post’. But you still won’t answer what it meant or answer the question I asked you politely and genuinely.

[RND]

@MHM

Well, bless your heart again.

Oh, did that post about stupid people that wasn’t even remotely directed towards you ring a bell for you? Seriously what is wrong with you??

[Knights_Mom]

@FitzE

@RND

I get a whole lot of replies here that have nothing to do with my posts and yes, that bothers me.

You replied to me about someone telling you you were drinking. It had ‘nothing to do with my post’. But you still won’t answer what it meant or answer the question I asked you politely and genuinely.

RND can’t come to the post right now. Please leave a name and number and when they think of something they will call you back.

[RHdobes563]

@FitzE

I’ll ask you the same question. Just looking for a simple answer, not a huge explanation.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone related to a defendant in this position. Choose whomsoever is meaningful to you. Then take the following into account:

• no forensics were done on the weapon
• no testing was done on anyone’s hands at the scene
• the only ‘evidence’ presented was the mismatched stories of two people who were demonstrated to have lied while under oath, have verifiable criminal/drug histories, and an admitted scheme to destroy the defendant

In that situation, would you feel that it was correct if your loved one was found guilty?

As for me, I could not accept if this happened to my family member.

[skydy]

@FitzE

Thank you for answering! I admit that I felt the same as you: it’s likely he did, it seems the most obvious explanation, etc. But when I saw the evidence - or lack thereof - I had so much doubt.

I have always felt that “beyond a reasonable doubt” means exactly that. You’d better be damned sure of your facts before you send someone to prison. In this case , I couldn’t come up with anything better than, “he might have, or it seems as though he did” but that’s not good enough. Beyond a reasonable doubt (the standard) was just not there for me.

[FitzE]

I genuinely don’t get why RND will respond to me as below (what does that even mean?) but won’t respond to my question? Again, there are no wrong answers. I’ve not been snarky or thrown around any personal insults. Just an honest question, politely asked, 100% germane to the topic of the thread.

@RND

@FitzE

RND: would this evidence as presented satisfy you beyond a reasonable doubt that your loved one in the position of defendant way guilty?

I just have to quote this since I was accused by someone of drinking earlier.

[FitzE]

@skydy

I have always felt that “beyond a reasonable doubt” means exactly that. You’d better be damned sure of your facts before you send someone to prison. In this case , I couldn’t come up with anything better than, “he might have, or it seems as though he did” but that’s not good enough. Beyond a reasonable doubt (the standard) was just not there for me.

This is 100% my experience as well. You have to be ‘damned sure’ before you send someone to prison. This evidence doesn’t make me ‘damned sure’. I just couldn’t do it in good conscience.

The other frustrating thing is, if he is guilty, the police completely left me with no ability to convict. Again, I’d be LIVID if I were the victim or victim’s family. How could you let us down so badly on the investigation and evidence gathering/handling!? I’d be so upset.

[FitzE]

@RHdobes563

As for me, I could not accept if this happened to my family member.

Because you feel the evidence is just not sufficient to convict?

And, thank you for answering!

[Knights_Mom]

@FitzE

@skydy

I have always felt that “beyond a reasonable doubt” means exactly that. You’d better be damned sure of your facts before you send someone to prison. In this case , I couldn’t come up with anything better than, “he might have, or it seems as though he did” but that’s not good enough. Beyond a reasonable doubt (the standard) was just not there for me.

This is 100% my experience as well. You have to be ‘damned sure’ before you send someone to prison. This evidence doesn’t make me ‘damned sure’. I just couldn’t do it in good conscience.

The other frustrating thing is, if he is guilty, the police completely left me with no ability to convict. Again, I’d be LIVID if I were the victim or victim’s family. How could you let us down so badly on the investigation and evidence gathering/handling!? I’d be so upset.

I’m betting Elvis has left the building. Didn’t want to soil those blue suede shoes.

[RHdobes563]

@hut-ho78

@Djones

@hut-ho78

Yes, it is common for contractors to pull permits but it is usually part of the agreement. The owner has to sign something.

Is that NJ law? I ask because my DH is an electrical contractor in Alabama and there is nothing in the permit process here that involves the homeowner in terms of signing anything or being involved in the process…except for paying it when invoiced for it.

It is the law in New Jersey. I posted it upthread. Somewhere. I’ll see if I can find it.

It’s the law where I live. A governmental body can’t authorize work on property without the owner’s ok. The contractor usually pulls the permits but they have to have a notarized affidavit from the owner.

When I worked in our Inspections Department (30 years ago), it was 99% the norm for the contractor to pull permits. A home owner might pull a permit, but it was not recommended, as if the work was not done correctly, the contractor could not be held accountable (by the Inspections Department) for faulty work/work done incorrectly. I distinctly remember a home owner who came in and told us that the contractor told her that SHE had to pull the permit, and we stated what I just said.

Most contractors that have/had home owners pull the permit do so because the permits can be freakin’ EXPENSIVE.

I don’t remember anything at all (but I only worked in the Inspections Department for 18 months) about needing to see a signed authorization between home owner and contractor about work being done. I may call them tomorrow to see if I am misremembering.

[skydy]

I agree, it seems that almost no one involved in handling this debacle performed their job in a competent manner.

[RHdobes563]

@FitzE

@RHdobes563

As for me, I could not accept if this happened to my family member.

Because you feel the evidence is just not sufficient to convict?

And, thank you for answering!

Yes, I definitely would NOT believe there had been sufficient evidence to convict.

I am quite an addict of Forensic Files, the New Detectives, and a BUNCH of other police shows (due to my Discovery+ subscription) that deal with forensics and the gathering of evidence. The fact that SO MANY things weren’t done that could have HELPED and/or confirmed the prosecution’s case is just mind-boggling.

[RND]

@FitzE

@RND and @hut-ho78 - what would your answers be? Would you find your own loved one guilty on the evidence presented?

I think I sort of already answered this. I don’t care who it is - no one can shoot another person just because that person is a completely disgusting human being. You just can’t do that. It’s not even a question of whether or not it’s someone you love - it’s never ok to shoot someone just because she is a horrible human being.

I just don’t get how there are human beings here who actually believe it is ok that MB shot LK. They are horrifyingly disgusting people who you couldn’t pay me to spend even a single second with. LK and RG for sure are horrible people, and MB reduced himself below their level when he took that gun to the house and shot LK. They all went wrong. Anyone who thinks MB is innocent is either ignorant, delusional, or stupid.

[FitzE]

Agreed, I’m really taken aback. On the stand the officers offered no reason for the lapses, either. It was so bizarre. And letting people back on the scene less than 24 hours later with no supervision. Just…what?

Thanks for a straight answer, too. My experience at the drunk driving case was very poignant.

[FitzE]

100% agreed with your stance on shooting. Couldn’t have said it better.

Would you find the evidence in this case sufficient for conviction of someone you loved? So, say your husband is the defendant, would you be able to say to him, I love you but the evidence provided proves to me you are guilty.