Barisone- New Thread

[Jealoushe]

@AltersAreUs

If that IS what happened, it’s not. But if you have a beef with someone, arm yourself for protection (allowed even in new jersey), drive about your own property, they come out, their dog attacks you, and they start beating you about the head, and you shoot them, how is that not self defense?

You’re arguing with me about something the judge has determined the facts don’t support so, I don’t really have anything to say lol I follow the facts and evidence of the trial. Not understanding the law and not agreeing with it are not the same thing.

[Sdel]

@Jealoushe

If I have a beef with someone, grab my gun, drive to their house and call them outside, then shoot them, how is that self defense?

The state never argued as to his charges for simply having the gun on his person. They argued his charges as to their theory of his intended use.

You are allowed in the US to have a guns, and in NJ specifically to carry a gun on your property generally. He was legally entitled to carry a gun anywhere on that property, for any reason, at any time with no explanation needed.

[endlessclimb]

IMO - I will say that even without a self defense option, there isn’t any evidence that indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that Barisone shot them. If the police actually did their job, that might be different. So, in the face of basically “guilty” and “not guilty” at this point, I’m going for the latter.

[Jealoushe]

@Sdel

The state never argued as to his charges for simply having the gun on his person. They argued his charges as to their theory of his intended use.

You are allowed in the US to have a guns, and in NJ specifically to carry a gun on your property generally. He was legally entitled to carry a gun anywhere on that property, for any reason, at any time with no explanation needed.

Again, never said anything at all about owning or carrying guns. Not sure where you got that. I was referring to grabbing a weapon with intent.

[AltersAreUs]

@Jealoushe

I never said anything about carrying a concealed weapon??? not sure why you are arguing with me about what the law is.

You said that getting the gun showed pre-mediation, which negates a self defense defense. I’m not arguing that is true in this case, at least according to the judge’s view.

But every person who deliberately carries is showing a level of pre-mediation. By having a conceal & carry and actively carrying, aren’t you (general gun owner) saying “I am knowingly arming myself and am willing to use deadly force”. My question is, are gun owners in NJ who regularly conceal & carry giving up all chance of using self defense as a reason if they shoot someone?

[rothmpp]

@Jealoushe

Even if someone attacks you with say a rope, you can’t always get away with shooting them, because the force of a gun is much more than a rope. It’s very complex. There can’t be any show of preparation for self defense.

Here, I highlighted for you.

I’m not talking about this case in particular, and neither were you in this statement. I’m not going to let you just drop that kind of statement without pointing out the inaccuracies in your assertions.

[Jealoushe]

@AltersAreUs

You said that getting the gun showed pre-mediation, which negates a self defense defense. I’m not arguing that is true in this case.

But every person who deliberately carries is showing a level of pre-mediation

You don’t understand the law or the difference in using a gun or deliberating getting one and going to someone to confront the, so I can’t really help, sorry. Read that link I shared it has a good layout of how it works in NJ.

[BrownDerby]

@AltersAreUs

The fact that MB felt he needed a gun with him could be because he planned to gun the lot of them down in the driveway OR it could be because he was afraid for his life, something both of the prosecution’s expert witnesses both attested was true.

Or, he could have wisely, been afraid of the agressive Rosie. Discussion of the dog was always sidebarred or objected to.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Angela_Freda

@Jealoushe

There is no evidence to support it, so he can’t put it forward. The fact he took the gun and drove down there, takes away any self defense argument. You can’t lodge a defense when there is no evidence to support it. You can pick what defense you are putting up / self defense/passion/battered wife/gay panic etc but there has to be evidence accepted by the courts to support it. There was none, as per the judge.

If MB believed they also had a gun…

Oh. Remember all those social media posts LK made about actually having guns? Hollow point ammunition? Etc etc etc?

Gosh. Those posts, that testimony by MHG and the experts established MB saw on the days leading up to the shooting? They support the notion that MB may have believed they also had a gun…

[Jealoushe]

Show of preparation, FOR A SELF DEFENSE ARGUMENT. As in, to be able to use as a self defense argument
Better?

Preparation, as in grabbing a gun to go to a confrontation. Not as in, carrying something to protect yourself legally.

Sorry, you arent putting things in my mouth I didnt say

[GetOverit2]

LK physically attacked MB the day before , she jumped in his way and grabbed his Truck door and slammed it shut . Their dog bit RC that week , Rob and LK both posting on S M bragging about their guns and declaring War on him , RG gestures a gun to his head in front of Blacksmith that morning.Considering all of their actions they declared on Social media that LK was checking off in her chess game , she DID go through and check many off .
Remember NOBODY was supposed to be in the home due to Fire Marshall orders because of RG and Lauren , he did not know that they got it reversed in the middle of the night .
I believe he went there to try one last attempt to resolve this one when he got out of his vehicle Lauren and dog attacked him and then RG jumped in .
The fact she did not answer her phone from her civil attorney tells me she had already smashed it over his ears .The Lawyer only heard TWO shots !
Most important , they allowed RG and LK to erase the camera and did not search Their vehicles or home or the mysterious "google " phone !

Camera being erased says it all to me.

[Jealoushe]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

They support the notion that MB may have believed they also had a gun…

So was he looking for a gun fight then?

[MHM]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Apparently she was infamous for having put a kitten in a microwave. It’s been discussed in the wake of all these events.

If that is true, and it was something she did as a minor, and the parents did not immediately take every conceivable course of action to do something drastic about her mental health, they are as guilty as she is for every single thing she has done wrong since then. Full stop.

[jaj]

Evidence allowed in

[Jealoushe]

OMG people stop arguing with me over what you think happened. I know everyone has different theories, Im going off WHAT THE JUDGE and evidence points to. Argue there LOL

[Sticky_Situation]

That syntax is … very familiar.

[DownYonder]

@Libby2563

N.J.R.E. 403. Exclusion of Relevant Evidence on Grounds of Prejudice, Confusion, or Waste of Time: Except as otherwise provided by these rules or other law, the court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the risk of:
(a) Undue prejudice, confusing the issues, or misleading the jury; or
(b) Undue delay, wasting time, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence.

And God forbid the jury know anything about the absolutely heinous behavior of the instigators that led up to this tragedy.

[Jealoushe]

@jaj

Evidence allowed in

Evidence testified to, sorry.

[Jenerationx]

Not posts, PAGES. 19,000 PAGES. That’s… a lot.

[Sdel]

@Jealoushe

@Sdel

The state never argued as to his charges for simply having the gun on his person. They argued his charges as to their theory of his intended use.

You are allowed in the US to have a guns, and in NJ specifically to carry a gun on your property generally. He was legally entitled to carry a gun anywhere on that property, for any reason, at any time with no explanation needed.

Again, never said anything at all about owning or carrying guns. Not sure where you got that. I was referring to grabbing a weapon with intent.

But you don’t know what his intent actually was. It was never testified to except indirectly via the psych experts…in which he was described as having an irrational level of fear, either real or made up, that he’d be killed by LK/RG.

All you know is what someone else said about his intent. Someone who was particularly biased and had a vendetta and lied.