Barisone Pleads Not Guilty

[RHdobes563]

Social Media

[YankeeDuchess]

@cutter99

Every assumption you make I am criticizing you for, just like you do to anyone else who dares to theorize, hypothesize, wild a$$ guess, or whatever you want to call it, other than you! You are VERY quick to shoot down anyone who dare to suggest anything other than what you agree with, and yet have no issue throwing out very presumptive guesses that you even try to pass off as factual.

If the shoe fits…

My criticisms of others is for making assumptions or trading rumors and presenting them as fact, not making assumptions per se.

Please provide one specific example of an assumption I have made and presented it as a fact.

[cutter99]

@YankeeDuchess

My criticisms of others is making assumptions or trading rumors and presenting them as fact, not making assumptions per se.

Please provide one specific example of an assumption I have made and presented it as a fact.

I have quoted your assumptions repeatedly. Why do you think I quoted you? For my own edification??? Yeah, not so much!

[YankeeDuchess]

@cutter99

SM= Social Media

Or should I get out the Urban Dictionary for you???

Sorry, I do know what SM is, but was expecting a reference to a person, like RC. 

 We do have information beyond SM. We have the 911 calls, and the information about the indictment of MB.

[IdahoRider]

@YankeeDuchess

Based on the above, I find it PLAUSIBLE that the owner of the gun was charged with gun violations.

I understand that you may not find it plausible.

I totally believe that is plausible, predicated on your speculation also being plausible.

However, what is not plausible is that anyone other than MB has been arrested and/or charged and/or cited on anything related to this case without it being reported. It would be a public record, with public access. Even if the press coverage has dropped off nationally? It would have merited a local mention.

Shoot, look at how fast this thread got started after MB plead, a move that was expected and pretty typical so early in a criminal case when the charges are so serious. It would take about a red hot minute for someone to start a thread about RC being charged or arrested or cited or whatever other word you want to use.

I don’t know these people. For all I know RC handed MB the gun and physically pointed him in the direction of LK. But I do know how press coverage happens when a case has caught attention like this one has, and I have watched how each little development in this case has been parsed and examined here. There is no other reasonable explanation as to why there is no record or mention.
Sheilah

[IdahoRider]

@YankeeDuchess

So you know for a fact that there is a record in a publicly searchable database of everyone charged with a crime in NJ?

What I know for a fact is that it would be publicly available information and that it would be reported by someone, somewhere, other than LK because of the fact that it is public information.
Sheilah

[YankeeDuchess]

@cutter99

I have quoted your assumptions repeatedly. Why do you think I quoted you? For my own edification??? Yeah, not so much!

Asking for an assumption that I presented as fact.

For example, I criticized
@MorganSercu
for stating as a fact that LK reported MB to SafeSport alleging child abuse, and stating as a fact that LK herself stated as much.
ladyj79 criticized GiveEmEl (or was it GWE) for stating as a fact that LK was asked to leave FR but refused to leave.

[YankeeDuchess]

@IdahoRider

What I know for a fact is that it would be publicly available information and that it would be reported by someone, somewhere, other than LK because of the fact that it is public information.
Sheilah

So “publicly available” =/= available on a publicly searchable database.

[IdahoRider]

@YankeeDuchess

So “publicly available” =/= available on a publicly searchable database.

Answer this question: do you think it is plausible that anyone other than MB has been charged or arrested or cited in relation to this case and it has gone unnoticed by anyone other than LK?

I think this is a fair question. I await your answer.
Sheilah

[YankeeDuchess]

@IdahoRider

Answer this question: do you think it is plausible that anyone other than MB has been charged or arrested or cited in relation to this case and it has gone unnoticed by anyone other than LK?

I think this is a fair question. I await your answer.
Sheilah

    It is plausible to me that if someone else, for example RC, were charged, that it might not be reported by news media, and that only those very close to the center of the case, for example LK, RG, her father, their lawyers and the principals on the MB side might be aware of it.

   A quasi Olympic trainer of dressage horses shooting his own client in the chest is shocking, bizarre, and salacious. That the owner of the gun violated NJs strict gun laws is not remotely in the same ballpark of salaciousness to the general public, IMHO. 

   Is it plausible to you that, above and beyond the attempted murder charges, MB would be charged with two counts on a weapons offense, and the owner of the gun, whoever that was, would NOT face criminal charges (leaving aside whether the charges have already been or will be made in the future)?

[FatDinah]

He was charged with two counts of possessing a weapon for unlawful purpose. The only reason for the gun charge is because he used it to shoot people. It doesn’t make it unlawful for the owner of the gun to have had it.
You keep saying strict gun laws in nj but a poster said in her personal experience that’s it simple/easy to get a permit to PURCHASE but not to carry. If RC lived there, she didn’t need a carry permit.

[IdahoRider]

@YankeeDuchess

It is plausible to me that if someone else, for example RC, were charged, that it might not be reported by news media, and that only those very close to the center of the case, for example LK, RG, her father, their lawyers and the principals on the MB side might be aware of it.

A quasi Olympic trainer of dressage horses shooting his own client in the chest is shocking, bizarre, and salacious. That the owner of the gun violated NJs strict gun laws is not remotely in the same ballpark of salaciousness to the general public, IMHO.

Is it plausible to you that, above and beyond the attempted murder charges, MB would be charged with two counts on a weapons offense, and the owner of the gun, whoever that was, would NOT face criminal charges (leaving aside whether the charges have already been or will be made in the future)?

Bolding mine. For the very reason you stated (see bolding) it would be reported somewhere. There is no such thing as a secret arrest/charge/citation. Once it is filed, it is public. And if it hasn’t been filed, then the person named would not be charged/arrested/cited. One follows the other. And the very salacious and bizarre nature guarantees that every little piece is going to get reported on at some level.

First you posit that the charge/arrest/citation is public, but not available on a public search. Then you claim that maybe only “LK, RG, her father, their lawyers and the principals on the MB side might be aware” of it. How does that work, exactly? The police and the courts don’t know about it? Because if the police and courts were aware of it, it would be public knowledge and more than just the people you listed would be aware of it.

It is very plausible to me that even with New Jersey’s very strict gun laws, the owner of the gun might not face any criminal action simply because the owner of the gun might have used all due and legal precautions and MB could have still gained access to the gun. But, since there is no charge/arrest/citation to lay out how anyone else is culpable, we don’t know how or when the gun came into his possession.
Sheilah

[YankeeDuchess]

@Callista17

The COTH threads showing what he was dealing with.

Is that what all the attacks on LK is about? Anonymous posters think they can post stuff, true or not true, about LK, that will be admitted into evidence “showing what [MB] was dealing with”?

If that is what is motivating some, a few, posters, are you sure you want to admit to it out loud?

[YankeeDuchess]

@FatDinah

He was charged with two counts of possessing a weapon for unlawful purpose. The only reason for the gun charge is because he used it to shoot people. It doesn’t make it unlawful for the owner of the gun to have had it.
You keep saying strict gun laws in nj but a poster said in her personal experience that’s it simple/easy to get a permit to PURCHASE but not to carry. If RC lived there, she didn’t need a carry permit.

Read the posts by@DownYonder
which stated that since RC was an employee not the business owner, there would be restrictions on her having the gun on the premises, if she did not also have a license to carry.

 It is not obvious to me that “the only reason for the gun charge is because he used it to shoot people”.  But clearly you know better.

[IdahoRider]

Well, since it has stopped snowing here and I am now free to leave the house, I am going to go out on a limb and speculate that LK decided to conflate RC being charged (which is what happens in a criminal case) with being named and served as a defendant in her civil case.

I will also speculate that RC will never be charged/arrested/cited with a criminal offense relating to ownership of the gun. I feel that my speculation is plausible because if there was a clear connection (or even a semi-muddy one) between RC and how she handled/owned or otherwise maintained the gun that was used to shoot LK, she would have been charged/arrested/cited by now. It has been five months since the shooting? It would have happened by now. Especially if LK and her family were pushing for RC to be looked at by police. LK has been pretty clear that she thinks RC helped MB commit the crime her has been charged with. The police would have been pretty focused on RC because of that suspicion from the actual victim of the crime. If it were going to happen, it would have already happened. Having said that, anything is possible. Just not probable. Or plausible, since that seems to be the word of the day.

Now I am headed out to the barn!
Sheilah

[YankeeDuchess]

@IdahoRider

Bolding mine. For the very reason you stated (see bolding) it would be reported somewhere. There is no such thing as a secret arrest/charge/citation. Once it is filed, it is public. And if it hasn’t been filed, then the person named would not be charged/arrested/cited. One follows the other. And the very salacious and bizarre nature guarantees that every little piece is going to get reported on at some level.

First you posit that the charge/arrest/citation is public, but not available on a public search. Then you claim that maybe only “LK, RG, her father, their lawyers and the principals on the MB side might be aware” of it. How does that work, exactly? The police and the courts don’t know about it? Because if the police and courts were aware of it, it would be public knowledge and more than just the people you listed would be aware of it.

It is very plausible to me that even with New Jersey’s very strict gun laws, the owner of the gun might not face any criminal action simply because the owner of the gun might have used all due and legal precautions and MB could have still gained access to the gun. But, since there is no charge/arrest/citation to lay out how anyone else is culpable, we don’t know how or when the gun came into his possession.
Sheilah

Thanks for quoting my post. I did not say “only” LK, RG, etc. You supplied the “only”. I said that I found it plausible that people other than LK would know about it, yet it might not be reported in news media.

   IMHO, not everything that the police and courts are “aware of” can be obtained in an internet search. 

   So I don’t take the fact that no one has uncovered official documentation of charges via an internet search as indisputable evidence that charges were NOT filed. I don’t take LKs statement that charges were filed as indisputable proof that charges WERE filed. 

   You asked me what I found plausible and I answered. I apologize for answering your question.

[x-halt-salute]

Ladies and gentlemen, your regularly scheduled discussion has been pre-empted by a special presentation of the Yankee Duchess Show. Your ability to discuss ideas and opinions other than Her Majesty’s will resume once Barisone has been tarred, feathered, and found guilty of murder most foul and the dastardly act of asking a client to sign some papers.

[IdahoRider]

@YankeeDuchess

Read the posts by@DownYonder
which stated that since RC was an employee not the business owner, there would be restrictions on her having the gun on the premises, if she did not also have a license to carry.

Not necessarily. Perhaps if the business were being run on private property, the restrictions would not apply? Some barns are open to the public and some barns aren’t. That might come into play. Private residences might also provide some leeway?
Sheilah

[IdahoRider]

@YankeeDuchess

Thanks for quoting my post. I did not say “only” LK, RG, etc. You supplied the “only”.

Actually, you did use the word only. You said, and I quote:

It is plausible to me that if someone else, for example RC, were charged, that it might not be reported by news media, and that only those very close to the center of the case, for example LK, RG, her father, their lawyers and the principals on the MB side might be aware of it.

So, yeah. You did use the word “only”.
Sheilah

[YankeeDuchess]

@x-halt-salute

Ladies and gentlemen, your regularly scheduled discussion has been pre-empted by a special presentation of the Yankee Duchess Show. Your ability to discuss ideas and opinions other than Her Majesty’s will resume once Barisone has been tarred, feathered, and found guilty of murder most foul and the dastardly act of asking a client to sign some papers.

I am only RESPONDING to posts addressed to me.

I explicitly stated on the previous thread that MB has every right to request that his clients “sign some papers”. Also that the clients have every right to decline to sign them. Also that I, in my own little mind, find it bizarre and an inappropriate use of police resources to call 911 and state that the reason for the call is that your clients refuse to sign papers.