Barisone Safe Sport Update

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BrendaJane

FINISH THE BASTARD
an intentional plot to ruin a person is not as severe as the inconclusive events on the Barisone farm for you? A good thing that RG had Barisone in a possibly deadly choke hold, not LK then?

You can take her in then, see how you like it, I guess.

I don’t investigate violations of the SS code. SS does. To date, they have not suspended her pending an investigation.

[MHM]

@Knights_Mom

IMHO the contents of GMs book, in his own words, by his own admission, contain statements in which a ban MIGHT be done including but not limited to rapping horses legs to jump and the intentional injury leading to bone breaks of TWO student riders.

So I don’t know what SS was thinking regarding the old allegations of a sexual nature upon a minor, but I’m saying there was other stuff too.

I have not read GM’s book, so I’m not familiar with the contents. But I don’t think safe sport is at all concerned about horse welfare. That’s not their focus, as far as I know.

I would even imagine that riders getting injured during training might be a stretch for safe sport, just because it might be hard for them to draw a straight line from horse training to an injured rider. I’m guessing they have plenty on their plate without things like that.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the Barisone situation, just due to the uncharted nature of the whole thing.

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@Knights_Mom

IMHO the contents of GMs book, in his own words, by his own admission, contain statements in which a ban MIGHT be done including but not limited to rapping horses legs to jump and the intentional injury leading to bone breaks of TWO student riders.

So I don’t know what SS was thinking regarding the old allegations of a sexual nature upon a minor, but I’m saying there was other stuff too.

I have not read GM’s book, so I’m not familiar with the contents. But I don’t think safe sport is at all concerned about horse welfare. That’s not their focus, as far as I know.

I would even imagine that riders getting injured during training might be a stretch for safe sport, just because it might be hard for them to draw a straight line from horse training to an injured rider. I’m guessing they have plenty on their plate without things like that.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the Barisone situation, just due to the uncharted nature of the whole thing.

In his book GM speaks of teaching these riders a lesson so he asks them to jump in a manner he knows is impossible resulting in their injury.

[BrendaJane]

well a little sexism plays in ther too, don’t you think? The little bitty woman can’t possibly hurt the 6’3" bear of a man…
And that is not even sarcasm

[MHM]

@Knights_Mom

In his book GM speaks of teaching these riders a lesson so he asks them to jump in a manner he knows is impossible resulting in their injury.

Ugh.

I think safe sport needs somebody to complain before they do anything, right? So first they would need somebody who was injured to file a complaint against GM, wouldn’t they?

[GiveEmEl]

It could be because where MB was a pretty prominent trainer and was very involved in USEF/USDF whereas LK is an AA who doesn’t do a lot of showing although obviously I have no clue.

[Knights_Mom]

@GiveEmEl

I’ve heard of “guilty but insane” so I admit I can’t quite distinguish the difference.

Guilty but insane was not the verdict in this case. This means a crime was committed, the defendant has been found to have committed the crime but due to their mental status they can’t go to a regular jail.

MBs verdict was NOT GUILTY/INSANITY because due to his mental state the necessary 2 elements of quantifying their action as a crime are missing.

One is the action having occurred (actus reus) and one is the intent to have done it - the guilty mind (mens rea). The intent part was missing because due to his mental state it wasn’t a purposeful act.

As such the event becomes basically a non-crime and if an event is a non crime you can’t be guilty of committing a crime.

[Knights_Mom]

@MHM

@Knights_Mom

In his book GM speaks of teaching these riders a lesson so he asks them to jump in a manner he knows is impossible resulting in their injury.

Ugh.

I think safe sport needs somebody to complain before they do anything, right? So first they would need somebody who was injured to file a complaint against GM, wouldn’t they?

This I don’t know.

I know regular courts can make motions on their own volition. No idea about SS or USEF.

[GiveEmEl]

Thank you! I knew they weren’t different I just couldn’t quite figure out the difference. That was a great explanation, Google was unhelpful.

Edit: were different. Not weren’t.

[Danvers]

Ignore, ignore, ignore…, Go hit your head on a brick walll. You will get more satisfaction.

[MHM]

@Knights_Mom

This I don’t know.

I know regular courts can make motions on their own volition. No idea about SS or USEF.

I have the impression that safe sport needs someone to actually file a complaint before they can really do much of anything. That’s how I understood it anyway, based on the idea that they could not do much based on just a third-party report.

[lazaret]

“Guilty but mentally ill” (GBMI) is distinguished from “Not guilty by reason of insanity/mental defect/illness” (NGRI) by its base disposition. If you are found guilty but insane, you are in fact guilty of the crime charged. The “insane” finding feeds into your sentencing.

Not guilty by reason of insanity/mental defect/illness means you are found innocent of the criminal action charged.

GBMI means that, despite your mental illness, you are able to form the mental reasoning required to commit an act that is a crime. It’s not available everywhere but it stands between “guilty” and “NGRI” on the continuum of responsibility. NGRI is a not guilty verdict. That person is acquitted of the crime charged.

“The guilty but mentally ill (GBMI) verdict is premised on the notion that when a defendant raises a claim of insanity, the jury should be permitted to return a verdict that falls between the total inculpation of a guilty verdict and the complete exoneration of a not guilty by reason of insanity verdict.”

Bold and italics mine.

[Knights_Mom]

Just as a quick aside one version of hurting a student (there is a worse version in the book) and one admission of drugging a horse for competition by GM. I couldn’t find the part where he talks of his mindset for causing the injury.

[Danvers]

Did they? I don’t think we really know what happened…. There could be many variations - however the only person who is not adictited to drugs, has no criminal record, was beaten to an inch of his life and can’t remember because of the beating LK and RH and Rosie gave him. So y’all take it from here …. And the MB team has remained dignified the entire time during this debacle LK et all have been all over social media spewing ….

[OntheFnce]

@Knights_Mom

@BigMama1

@PDDT

In this case, given the seriousness of the charge, I can understand a temporary suspension, but a permanent suspension absent a conviction seems to undermine the presumption of innocence.

A SafeSort suspension does not require any criminal investigation to take place - look at George Morris as an example. SS is not there to rule if criminal behaviour has occurred. Determining innocence or guilt is up to the justice system and has nothing to do with whether or not someone should lose their membership in a sports organization.

SS is there to investigate claims filed and determine if there is enough evidence to support the claim. If so, they impose sanctions, which differ depending on the seriousness of the allegations. The most severe sanction they can impose is a permanent ban. It is reserved for the most serious offences but at the end of the day still amounts to little more than losing a license or being kicked out of a club.

And even in an SS investigation, someone is presumed “innocent” with no sanctions imposed until after the completion of a very thorough and often lengthy investigation. The exception is when the person under investigation is believed to present an ongoing and immediate risk to minors while the investigation occurs. In those cases a temporary ban is enforced immediately, out of caution.

IMHO the contents of GMs book, in his own words, by his own admission, contain statements in which a ban MIGHT be done including but not limited to rapping horses legs to jump and the intentional injury leading to bone breaks of TWO student riders.

So I don’t know what SS was thinking regarding the old allegations of a sexual nature upon a minor, but I’m saying there was other stuff too. When I read his book all I could keep on thinking was “Who would admit this?”

When I read GM’s book I was thinking the same thing. Who would admit to this behavior? On the other hand, he got away with this behavior for so long and was put on a pedestal and worshipped and still is by some.

[BigMama1]

In theory SafeSport is concerned with bullying in sport, as well as with sexual misconduct. But in practice they are so overwhelmed with cases of sexual misconduct, harassment, etc. against minors that is pretty much their exclusive focus.

Horse welfare / general rule breaking is not part of their mandate at all, to my knowledge. Those are issues for the individual sport federations to deal with, not Safe Sport.

[Seeker1]

Why didn’t he get the “appropriate” help from mental health professional this time instead of asking Ruth to get a gun and shooting someone?

[KurPlexed]

I’m so sick of this^^^^

Why did LK set out to ruin someone? That’s what you should be asking

[OntheFnce]

@Seeker1

Why didn’t he get the “appropriate” help from mental health professional this time instead of asking Ruth to get a gun and shooting someone?

Why didn’t LK leave when she was asked to leave?

[Seeker1]

She didn’t have time. He only asked her the day before and was given 3 days.