Barn dilemma

[quarab]

I just need someone to talk this out with.

I originally purchased a dressage bred pony with the intention and desire to bring her up the levels in dressage. Through a series of unfortunate events I have her at an eventing barn. Which is going ok and she LOVES to jump as it turns out. Primarily it’s great because they do actual turnout (she lives with a herd in a dry lot and is turned onto a grass lot during the day with a larger herd).

Historically she got along pretty well with the herd but now is having issues. She drives some mares off their feed (who are OTTBs who need a lot) and now she’s getting banged up in another herd. (BM says it’s because she’s instigating and other horses are mad at her.) Historically she’s actually done well in a mixed herd but there are no mixed herds at this barn. BM says she might have to live in a stall. This is rather unfortunate because she becomes quite nuts in a stall and develops issues under saddle that we otherwise don’t have.

So now I’m contemplating moving. Of the two nearby dressage barns neither has 24/7 out living to my knowledge. I could move her to a nearby hunter barn where she could live in a large pasture with some of their retirees or I could try to stick it out here. Or try to find another barn (though these are pretty much the barns with reputable trainers I would consider). I feel like now I have to pick between a dressage barn and a hunter barn (I’m not crazy about a hunter ride and she’s wayyyy too hot and expressive as a low level hunter) I’m feeling very defeated. BM said some things that felt a bit passive aggressive about the whole thing and it’s basically left a sour taste in my mouth.

I dunno? Thoughts, commiserations?

[clanter]

@quarab

. She drives some mares off their feed (who are OTTBs who need a lot)

why can she not be removed when they feed the others then put back when they are done?

[FjordBCRF]

How long has she been in this set up for? Is it a newer arrangement or something that has been playing out over some time. Is she driving the other horses off hay as well?

How long has she been with the group that she’s getting banged up in? It’s possible that she will learn if the herd isn’t going to tolerate her being a bully which might solve itself, but if she keeps getting herself beat up, I can understand that not being a great option either.

Sorry you’re dealing with this

[Displaced_Yankee]

By “live in a stall” does she mean 24/7? Or in for the night (day, depending on season/location) and private turnout otherwise?

If it’s the former, this would not be the barn for me. A barn manager should be trying to find solutions for a healthy happy horse or say “Hey, this horse isn’t working out here”. I have done both for clients. Just sticking the horse in a stall says I don’t care about the horse, I just want the board check, extra labor be damned.

While 24/7, herd turnout is always preferred I would not rule out stalled day/night and small group or individual turnout at a well managed barn. FWIW: I haven’t done a mixed heard of mares & geldings in 15 or so years. I have found that the peace is easier to find in mares only/geldings only fields. YMMV.

If I were in your shoes I would inquire to the two dressage barns and see exactly what the turnout situation is like and if they even have openings. No harm in asking around and that would bring some clarity ie: this place is perfect! but they don’t have any openings! or oh hell no.

[Marla_000]

Time to move your horse.
Your BO has checked out and is no help.
Start looking now. Even a private
Temporary place would be better than where you are now.
When I boarded I always had a backup barn or two just in case
Something happened.
Start searching now.
Good Luck.

[OverandOnward]

If your mare was getting along in the herds before, and this has changed, it may not be her instigating. It may be a new herd member. And/or some general changes in herd dynamics.

Horse herds can be like jr high school. Best friends suddenly avoid each other, and new best friends pop up. Chronic bickering suddenly flairs. Among the group or just a couple of members. And sometimes two enemies suddenly become new besties.

But there tend to be reasons for these changes, as a reaction to changes in routine or herd members (even if the reaction doesn’t make sense to humans). Horses actually prefer a routine and friends that never change, once all are getting along well.

But – as mentioned by other posters, if your instincts are right that the BO is blaming your mare and putting all the pressure on you to solve the problems – sounds like the BO would rather you and your mare leave. But doesn’t have a real reason to evict you.

There could be many reasons for a BO wanting a particular horse gone, and it’s possible that it has nothing to do with the horse or even the owner. Sometimes they have a limit on boarders and want a particular new boarder in. So some boarder who has done nothing wrong has to be turfed out, somehow, to make the space. Someone who is the lowest revenue producer in lessons, leases, etc. tends to be singled out for annoyance until they get the point and leave. Or pushed into a higher-cost board situation, as may be happening here. Not much the boarder can do about it. Best to move the horse to another barn where the owner can be more confident that it will be treated well and fairly.

[cayuse]

Time to go if the owner is getting passive aggressive about it. Might as well start searching now while you have plenty of time before you get forced into it on short notice. Whatever barn you move to, it doesn’t have to be permanent, you can always keep searching for the perfect fit.

[Annie10]

Why can’t you still ride dressage at the Hunter barn?
But yes I agree with the others, I would be looking around and keeping my eyes open

[furlong47]

Is there a simple way to isolate her at feeding time, such as a gate to close her into a run-in shed or a pen made of panels, or could she wear a feed bag or something so she can only access her own food? I’ve seen herds with this issue at many barns (either one piggy herd member or one timid horse picked on at feeding time) and that was usually the solution. If the problem is only at feeding time, no need to stall a horse 24/7 for that?

[Bogie]

My horses have lived out in a herd setting but since I’ve had two who were very food aggressive, they were fed separately. They were fine with hay but not with grain. It sounds like your BO is not thinking creatively here, so I’d be inclined to move.

[SusanO]

I can see both sides of this. It sucks to be the owner of a PITA horse since these are not behaviors that you can usually change. I have had one of these horses and I apologize to everybody that had to deal with him. But you have to look at it from the barn managers standpoint - this horse is a lot more trouble than the other horses and is a time suck. So they might not want to spend so much time fixing the problem and hope the horse leaves. And they may not have enough turnout situations to fix the problem.

But yes - I do not think it is a good solution for the horse to live in the stall 24/7. It doesn’t sound like the current barn can offer an acceptable solution to the problem so I would start looking for other living arrangements for the horse. Maybe 24/7 turnout will not be possible but you can get enough turnout to keep the horse happy. Perhaps some place that has smaller turnout groups and more pastures so there is not dumping a whole bunch of horses in one big area and letting them fight it out among themselves. I would look at how each place might work better with the horse’s living arrangements first and discipline second. Signed - a mare owner whose horse does not play well with others.

[OverandOnward]

And just an aside, deepest thanks, gratitude and appreciation to the many barn owners/managers who stretch themselves to the limit accommodating their most persnickety equine charges. How many BO/BM’s are making extra walks, extra carries, extra instructions to staff, extra attention on top of their trillion other concerns, to make the horse(s) who is not behaving like the others feel comfortable and well cared-for.

[mommy_peanut]

@quarab

Historically she got along pretty well with the herd but now is having issues.

Something probably changed to cause the start of issues.
New horse added to the herd?
A horses removed from the herd?
Change in feeding setup?

While it sounds like the BO isn’t willing to work anything out, I’d still be wanting to figure out what changed & started the change in her behavior. Even if it was only for my benefit & to know for future reference.

[quarab]

I should add some context yes

She was in a mixed herd <4yo. BO/M felt some of the babies (younger than my mare) were getting into bad habits so that group was split up and moved my mare in with two new mares (the TBs). The TBs were working out for the most part (it’s been about 2 months) except she got quite attached to one of the mares and a little unruly at feed time.

She was then switched into a herd that’s quite a bit more dominant at dinner time. One of these mares was actually one of the “babies” (she’s 3) my mare was originally turned out with and it’s particularly those two that are causing issues. It honestly seems mutual IMO - but the other filly is owned by the BM.

One of the issues that’s bugging me is that it’s been less than 36 hours. The first year I had the mare at this barn there were ZERO issues for a little over a year however the owner of both the other mares in that herd moved and placement has been a struggle since.

[OverandOnward]

So maybe it wasn’t a herd change, it was a BM change.

I had that happen. My calm and copacetic gelding lived happily in group turnout for 2 years. A large-ish group in a large pasture with abundant forage. The very good BM left. An absolute idiot BM replaced them. The idiot completely scrambled the turnout pasture groups for stupid reasons, and it was chaos. Several injured horses. Without informing the owners, who each arrived at the farm, saw the new pasture groups, and said “what the frigging hell?”

Had one conversation with the new BM and as a result left that formerly happy place asap. There is no fixing extreme levels of stupid.

[RedHorses]

So the BO has been trying to find a group that would work for your mare.

The most recent change has now put the BO’s valuable young horse at risk and they’re questioning this decision.

Seems reasonable to me.

It also seems reasonable to get out there with a lunge whip and explain appropriate behaviour to these young mares at feeding time. They’re both young and need to be taught, by a human if there isn’t a horse doing it. Teach them now to save trouble later.

And it seems reasonable to give the new group at least a couple of weeks to settle. I’d be wanting human intervention at feeding time to go along with giving it time.

[CoffeeLover]

As others suggested you have some backup barns in any case, suggest you give a call over to the hunter barn to gather more info. Many hunter barns have a dressage pro who “ships in” to give lessons to both the boarders who don’t do hunters and some of the hunters too. Your local dressage group may also be a source of info on which non-dressage barns might have drop-in dressage trainers.

[Equibrit]

Is there an opportunity to feed her seperately when she is moved from dry lot to grass ?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@OverandOnward

Someone who is the lowest revenue producer in lessons, leases, etc. tends to be singled out for annoyance until they get the point and leave.

Yup. It’s amazing how irritated I’ve seen some barn owners/trainers become at the horses of low-revenue clients when the horses are doing normal horse things, and turn a blind eye at the actions of horses of clients who show every week and have multiple horses at the barn in training.

Stalling 24/7 is not an acceptable long-term option! If the BO for whatever reason may not have the bandwidth to get creative for a true solution, I agree you need to start looking for other options.

[quarab]

@OverandOnward

So some boarder who has done nothing wrong has to be turfed out, somehow, to make the space. Someone who is the lowest revenue producer in lessons, leases, etc. tends to be singled out for annoyance until they get the point and leave. Or pushed into a higher-cost board situation, as may be happening here.

I think the frustration is also that I’m not. I lesson 1-2x/wk, she’s in training, we show. The BM/trainer loves riding her (she’s fancy AF and BM even says that feels she’s one of the nicest naturally talented moving mares she will ever ride – even having ridden the FEI levels. she was poorly marketed so I got her for easily half of what she could’ve sold for). I’m frustrated that this is the hill she’s going to die on and potentially spoil our relationship over.