Barn manager/professional pay?

[hairystockings]

Ok so I saw this on Facebook tonight, in summary and leaving the farm name out of it, an ISO post for a show barn in the Midwest to hire a professional instructor/barn manager. It’s both jobs in one. They’re to teach beginner to intermediate lessons up to 3’, boarder lessons for those who don’t attend a show, ride client and sales horses. The barn manager part includes giving and managing medications and treatments for horses, organizing the vet and farrier and managing half a dozen employees. This was advertised as a salaried position with pay in the mid 20’s, one week pto, and health benefits.

Is this typical? That doesn’t seem…livable. Like a recipe for burn out. It said nothing about living accommodations or anything. I feel like I remember many (10?) years ago a very good pro in the same region looking for a groom and that job paid about the same and had health benefits, and a fraction of the responsibilities.

I’m just a fat happy ammy who writes a check every month, so tell me, is this really what many of our lovely hard working pros are living off of?

[lenapesadie]

Gosh I hope not. If the position only requires 40 hrs a week that would be 12 an hour. I made more as a groom and had living accommodations. Maybe the lessons are extra income added to the salary? Maybe the housing is understood to be included? Maybe horses are a terrible profession?

[hairystockings]

@lenapesadie you made me lol. This was specifically advertised as a salaried position. So likely not with commission based extra on lessons, there was no mention of it. I would think if it were an add on it would be mentioned because as it is the job is most certainly not worth that pay.

[lenapesadie]

@hairystockings Glad you got a chuckle! I really hate to think that salary is the going rate. I’m fairly sure the general barn help where I board is paid about that much, no living accommodations but far fewer responsibilities. And paid hourly. I’d expect a barn manager to put in over 40 every week. And if they are teaching while rest of barn is at shows, they are working weekends too. Maybe there is a mid print in the ad?

[OnDeck]

Getting PTO and benefits are pretty big in the horse world, that could certainly be used to leverage a salary a little lower. But $25k not including housing is ridiculous. Maybe they expect to find a young person who lives with their parents?

[TheJenners]

:eek:

I sincerely hope not. Unless lesson/training fees and living arrangements were accidentally left out…

[hairystockings]

@OnDeck That’s what I was thinking but a young person probably isn’t going to have the requisite experience to do the barn manager components. The whole thing to me just seems way off.

[WildLittleWren]

Just recently someone was advertising for a live in barn manager, stable hand, groom, everything. This person was expected to work 4 hrs in the AM and 4 hrs in the PM. 7 days a week. Feeding, stalls, turnout, mending fences, ordering feed, etc etc. The list is too long to repeat here. Anyways, want to know what they offered? Live-in pop up camper for free, with no salary, no pay, no benefits. Oh, and you couldn’t have ANY pets, a partner, or kids. When people started questioning why they were looking for a slave in the year 2019, they got defensive and said that the person was free to work another job in their “off hours” to pay for their food, insurance, etc. Uh…ok.

[flexion]

In my HOCL area, that salary would be doubled.

[Xctrygirl]

It’s a bit dated as I worked there in 20017-2010 But I had a barn manager job where there was a lovely guy who helped manage the farm and mucked sometimes but not other (Summer-mowing) and the job was 6 days a week, 1 day off. I had health insurance and all my hunt membership, shows, clinics etc were paid for.

We had 20 horses on the farm, 12 in semi regular work. The owners hunted on average 3 days a week. Their client hunted with them around 1-2 days a week (when he came down from NYC)

It was my job to keep everything running and alive, sound etc. I had a second rider sometimes but they didn’t all last as long as you might like. The owner rode with me a lot too and then in the summers they went away to Maine. In deep winter they went away to Europe and on vacations.

It wasn’t super hard all the time, it wasn’t super easy all the time. I was paid $30k a year, taxes were taken out and with Health insurance (no vision or dental) benefits on top. For sure it was a very well paid barn job for the area and I greatly appreciate all the experiences that came from being there almost 3 years.

The OP listed job is absolutely slavery.

Em

[hairystockings]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I’m glad to hear this job posting is way off base. It’s a shame because the farm is one I see regularly at shows and they seem nice, with good clients and training and happy looking horses. It makes me feel very differently about them having seen that ad.

[RainWeasley]

That would be why I got a degree in engineering. :eek:

[TheJenners]

@RainWeasley

That would be why I got a degree in engineering. :eek:

And I got one in English (but I work in a different field and get paid more than I would have if I had stayed within it :lol:)

I’m still gobsmacked. I re-read and saw where I missed the part about salaried, so no extras like fees from lessons and training rides, so I got gobsmacked again. Even in midwest lower cost of living, that is a LOT of work for one person and not a lot of compensation for the level of expectation they have for the person to have the knowledge they are requiring.

[Seagram]

Horse people are special! So many poorly paid positions, with very little extras! People expect barn managers/grooms/riders/etc… to accept it for the privilege of working with their wonderful unicorns.
Not everyone, but many.

[ElementFarm]

I really, really hope they just didn’t include the perks in the ad!

About 100 years ago, when I thought I wanted to be a pro, I worked at a big H/J program on the west coast (think very early 2000’s). I didn’t have to feed/muck, just riding client horses, teaching school lessons, and the occasional horse show. Some management. I worked 6 days/week (7 if there was a show). I was paid 24K/yr after taxes, but also had on-farm housing and board for one horse. Additionally, got regular lessons with either my horse or a client’s, and a free slot in any clinic hosted on farm. It was a good starter job, but still hard to make ends meet on that salary.
A second job on the east coast paid $1500/month after taxes – just teaching/riding, no farm work, no management. I had an on-farm apartment, but no board. Very nice, high-end pony program and I didn’t miss having my own, as the client/farm horses were way nicer than anything I would have been able to afford anyway. They ended up gifting me a lovely medium when I left the job, as she was too quirky for the kids, and they wanted the stall.

Again, ~20 years ago, I was getting more as entry-level jobs, than that ad suggests. Either the ad text didn’t include the details (horse board, housing, etc) or they’re looking for slave labor, and will burn through employees fast, and likely will attract people who aren’t qualified to do all that.

I’m now a happy amateur, and work in a career field with no relation to horses or my college degree. I do have my own farm, and pay a part time worker $15/hr for about 3 hrs of work/day (M-F only). He does it as a side gig on top of his full time job which does give him full benefits/health. For reference, minimum wage in our state is $7.25.

[Jsalem]

Okay, so rather than pile on this thread with more of the same: “Why won’t BO’s pay a decent wage!”, I’m going to offer another angle. Horse Owners DO NOT want to pay the real cost of keeping their horses. They add up feed, hay, shavings and think that is what board should cost. They believe that a bag of grass seed is all that is needed to keep green pastures. Why, the horses provide free mowing! They have no idea.

Just think about what it costs to board a dog. In a tiny area. In my area it’s $40-$60 per day. Now the horse requires a 12 x 12 stall, 1-2 acres of expensively fenced pasture just to keep that one animal in grass, outdoor arena, indoor arena, wash racks, grooming racks.

My mother was complaining about the cost of boarding her little dog while we were on vacation and I did the math for her. She could board a horse with me for $32.50 a day with all of those fabulous amenities. She was floored. What a deal!

[NoSuchPerson]

@Jsalem

Okay, so rather than pile on this thread with more of the same: “Why won’t BO’s pay a decent wage!”, I’m going to offer another angle. Horse Owners DO NOT want to pay the real cost of keeping their horses. They add up feed, hay, shavings and think that is what board should cost. They believe that a bag of grass seed is all that is needed to keep green pastures. Why, the horses provide free mowing! They have no idea.

Point 1: All that means is that it may not be an economically viable business. If your potential customers aren’t willing/able to pay for your services at a rate that allows you to meet your business expenses, then you need to get out of the business. It’s the same basic equation that applies to any business.

Point 2: I don’t think that’s a fair representation of horse owners. There are always a few whiners and complainers, but in the places I’ve been, the majority of owners do accept and understand the costs of keeping their horses. In fact, on Monday, another boarder and I had a conversation that could be summed up as “This place is worth every penny they charge.” Although I’ll admit that we’ve both kept our own horses at home in the past, so perhaps have a better appreciation of the situation.

Point 3: Don’t confuse “don’t want to pay” with “can’t afford to pay,” although the end result is the same for both - complaining about the cost of board. There are a lot of people who own horses in spite of the fact that they really can’t afford them. How many threads have you seen here where experienced horse owners caution inexperienced prospective owners about how expensive it is to keep a horse and list all the costs that the newbie doesn’t realize exist? Lots of people rush into horse ownership without understanding how much it’s going to end up costing them.

There are lots of barn owners/managers who prey on people who love horses and would love to work with them by using that love and desire to get away with underpaying their staff and treating them poorly. And unfortunately, there is almost always someone who will be lured in.

[Jsalem]

Fortunately for me I have good training clients. My board covers the facility expenses and my training fees, show fees, sales pay me. It’s why I won’t consider keeping boarding only clients, although I’m asked. I wish that board would cover a dedicated Barn Manager with an attractive salary and benefits but it absolutely won’t.

[BeeHoney]

I don’t think that we can determine how bad/good this position is without all of the information. For example, if it is a 40hr. per week job, that’s $12/hr, well above minimum wage in most areas. Many jobs do not include health insurance, I would estimate that having health insurance is a value of at least $5000 per year. Without knowing more details, it is entirely possible that there are other benefits involved: overtime pay (legally required in most instances), possible living arrangements, board for a horse, etc. When I advertise for employees, I rarely list everything I’m willing to offer in the ad. If I hire a young, inexperienced person, their package is going to be less. If I come across a more experienced person, I will offer a higher salary and more benefits.

If you do think that $12/hr. is “slavery,” then what do you think about all the people in other service industries like hotel workers, restaurant workers, gardeners, etc.? Many of them routinely make less $ than horse farm workers. Many of those jobs lack insurance or other benefits.

[Libby2563]

@BeeHoney

I don’t think that we can determine how bad/good this position is without all of the information. For example, if it is a 40hr. per week job, that’s $12/hr, well above minimum wage in most areas.

But with all of the described duties, how likely is it that this job can be done in 40 hrs/week?