I know the days clients ride and i wouldnt double schedule or anything like that. I think it would be different if the barn owner was working the horses hard - and if a client didnt want that i wouldnt use the horse. It depends on the person. I have a coupke that want them used and i have a couple that dont and i respect their wishes.
Actually, my barn owner (small private barn) does add and remove blankets, including her using her own if the horse’s own are wet. There is absolutely no communal horse use without making specific arrangements, though. I’m glad you are happy with it but that is a very unusual situation not applicable to most barns.
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If the BO is treating the horse right, not over working him or having him do things he shouldn’t then the work is good for him. It is never good to let an older horse sit and then just get them out at random , if it can be helped.
Why not just ask for a discount on boarding for using this good old guy?
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Yeah and that’s exactly what my friend/HO would like, some modest amount off the board fee, but “the current cost of hay” has been brought up as a reason BO will never reduce board. I probably should have included more details. The BO lessons are multi-hour group workshops/clinics in the liberty realm, so folks pay much more than a typical hour long mounted session. Horse absolutely isn’t being overused in these sessions. In our region it’s very common for a school horse use fee. So if I ride a horse that isn’t my own, I pay more for the lesson and that extra amount goes straight to the actual owner of the horse (coaches just deduct it from HO board) as they pay the living expenses/training/etc for horse, so that’s why it seems unusual for coach/BO using a horse that isn’t their own for a lesson not to kick back to the actual HO. It’s never a huge amount, but anywhere from $10-25 is average where I live.
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well, it is not just the hay prices that are going up.
So has fuel, lumber, and anything else that we use. Feed (grains) as well.
Does this horse get daily turnout? If so, how much? It kind of sounds to me like this is the type of barn (CA/AZ or somewhere like that?) where the horses don’t live out. If the only way he gets out of his stall/small paddock is when he’s being used in a lesson/ride or the owner is paying for him to be turned out, then the barn owner may actually be doing the horse owner a favor. I can’t really tell from the information given, though, whether this is actually the case.
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Does the horse seem to be benefiting from the current arrangement? Does he seem higher energy, more fit, etc? Does the current arrangement have a negative effect on the horse owner at all? Or just frustration that someone else is making money off her horse? My main concern would be who pays the vet bill if the horse gets injured while being used by the barn owner? Income from lease arrangements typically covers that.
But there’s also the cost-benefit angle. I run a very small boarding facility and I charge next to nothing so I can get away with doing things my way. Those who don’t like it are free to leave.
What if the horse gets injured while BOs friend us riding him?
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The difference between this thread and the one on leases is crazy.
No wonder people think they deserve to use other people’s horses for free.
Barn owner would not be able to run their program as it is without this horse and that deserves compensation. The barn owner doing the owner a “favor” by exercising and brushing the horse is clearly not acceptable for the owner.
There needs to be a lease contract and compensation. The price of hay has nothing to do with anything. Set board as it needs to be then either discount board per a contract or write owner a check. Easy.
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It is what the parties involved agree upon.
What anybody else thinks is irrelevant.
In the same vein as your post, it’s crazy that everybody feels entitled to receive a hefty compensation for everything. Riders who can barely w/t, owners for a horse that is barely halter broke…
But golly, a barn that basically subsidizes horse ownership is using a horse with permission of the owner…
CRAZY!!!
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So because someone boards their horse that gives the barn owner the right to use it in lessons with no compensation?
And beginner riders should somehow be required to free lease their horse? None of that makes sense.
The barn owner should charge more board, not require use of private horses to subsidize their lesson program.
In this case the owner has realized that she is being taken advantage of and she deserves fair compensation.
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So friend is happy with the arrangement but you think she’s being exploited? If no actual harm is happening to the horse it’s really MYOB. I wouldn’t put too much energy into convincing her she needs to change the situation if she is basically content.
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it’s all n the agreement.
You don’t like it, don’t do it.
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Then the BO really should compensate her monetarily for every lesson he is used in. She is just taking advantage of your friend because she knows she can.
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It does sound like the owner is somewhat up happy with the arrangement.
Part of this is difficult because it seems like the activity the horse is being used for isn’t something that might transfer to another barn well. If the horse could be used for up/down lessons or something very commonly done like that, the easiest thing to do might be to move the horse and have an agreement from the outset that the horse can be used X times a week for a discount of $X in board with each use. Since it is something very different, that might be impossible. In that case, I think the, “I spoke with my insurance agent, and he or she recommended that I get this arrangement in writing. I should have done that at the outset. Would it be possible to get a discount with each use?”
Another option would be to just tell the barn owner not to use him.
It’s been very hard in my area to find lesson horses for years. I’ve heard from several people that you just can’t generate enough revenue to cover the expense of keeping the horse.
I’ve seen a lot of these arrangements as a result, but it’s a challenge. There can be benefits to the owner in keeping the horse exercised and fit, but there are downsides too. Unfortunately a lot of relationships end when working this out with a customer.
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I had a horse in this situation, retired from eventing, was unhappy in true retirement and needed a job, so she became a schoolie 2-3x a week. It was at the barn I grew up at, and I had since moved out of state where even retirement board was $300 more a month than back home. I was fine not being compensated for lessons since I knew they were taking food care of her, feeding her special senior grain, getting groomed all the time, having kiddos graze her constantly, being used to paint on for kids camp, just getting lots of little kid love. As an owner who couldn’t stop by more than a few times a month, it felt like a good deal, having peace of mind that my horse was taken care of. If your friend feels the same as I did, then myob. If your friend is unhappy about her arrangement with the BO, then they need to figure something out.
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Stopping back in with this thought:
Does BO’s insurance cover friend’s horse?
If not, and in one if those Groundwork for Newbs clinics horse say… steps on someone’s foot, knocks someone down… It happens & there’s bound to be someone - waiver or not - who will want compensation for any injury < minor as it may seem.
HO will be responsible even if BO has coverage (subrogation 
), but if BO has no liability coverage that will extends to this horse, Ruh-Roh 
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This is 100% true, but it’s also why I’d be concerned about a horse being used in this situation, especially without compensation to the owner. It’s very tempting for someone who doesn’t own the horse who has a $50 hay bill increase to use the horse in an extra one or two walk-trot lessons, or in one or (or three) more lessons than really benefits the horse for that day.
I also know many barn owners who are struggling will insist that multiple leadline or beginner lessons are good for a horse that likes a job, even if the horse is obviously struggling/overheated/sour. I honestly don’t think they’re trying to be mean or deceitful, but from the owner’s perspective, it is more wear and tear upon the horse, and should be compensated (at minimum). Grooming and riding from a dead beginner learning the ropes isn’t the same thing as having an experienced lesson teenager take the horse for twenty minutes w/t/c and clean, bathe, clip.
I think there needs to be a contract, even for handling, in any extended lesson situation even if and especially inexperienced people will be using the horse. Without a contract, it’s hard to set limits on how and when the horse is used and by whom.
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I agree. I had a similar situation in that at one point I leased my horse to a client of the barn owner. I initially wanted the lease to work out because I thought that my old horse would benefit from being able to stay at a full care boarding barn vs. moving into a retirement setting (and yes, that was so that I could continue riding and boarding another horse, so I’m selfish). Because I wanted it to work out so badly, I didn’t hash out the details with the lessee, and sure enough a few months down the line I was unhappy. There were things that I felt were putting me at risk of liability, and I was a bit concerned about some of things the horse was being used for being too much.
By not getting things in writing and discussing expectations on both sides, there was a lot more damage to my relationship with the barn owner than if I’d never done the lease at all.
I was one that felt like the horse needed a job and needed to be in a full care barn as he’d always been. I have to say, I think he is extremely suited to retirement. He loves it. It was also so much easier for me to simply retire him then deal with lessees, but I had that option. He doesn’t get groomed everyday (he does get fed and checked). He seems fine.
I would definitely view any of these situations with caution going forward. I am sure a lot of people benefit and it works out great, but in my experience these arrangements can really damage a relationship and I wouldn’t be at all eager to do it again.
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This resonates with so many of my friends’ experiences and what I’ve seen as a lesson student! In an ideal world, I do think that many horses taking a step down might benefit from being lightly ridden, but unless it’s very clear in a contract what that means, there’s always a temptation for the barn owner that doesn’t own the horse to use the horse more than he should be, especially if he’s a laid-back, easy-going type. And if someone’s trying very hard to stay in business, they often genuinely seem to want to close their eyes that what they’re doing isn’t in the best interest of the horse.
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