I still read it that way. 
But the OP has clarified so, going with that.
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well, she is going to great lengths to justify why she is right and the BO is a money-grabbing meany.
I sure wonder how the HO would like it if the board rate went up to reflect the actual cost plus profit of that small barn.
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That is how I would describe the BO. I imagine she would leave and then the BO would be out of luck.
The BO won’t raise her prices because that is proven in the boarding thread. No BO can charge what they should be.
No way around the fact that this BO should be compensating the owner for the use of this horse. Not only is she getting the full cost of board, she is making money when using this horse.
Wrong any way you look at it.
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In terms of the cost of board, what’s relevant is the market. The OP has said that the cost of board at this barn is similar to the cost at other barns in the area.
I can totally understand your friend’s dilemma if she doesn’t want to make waves. It would seem like the barn owner would be much better off giving some type of a discount than taking on the full ownership of a horse. These are just very tricky relationships to negotiate, though. If I were your friend I’d be at least tempted to sit down with the barn owner and say that I may not be able to keep him, but a discount for his participation in clinics would make a difference. It could be done with a lot of, “We love it so much here,” and “I’d love for him to be able to stay here.”
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The OP has an issue with the BO ‘making profit’ off the horse, assuming there are riches to be made in operating a boarding barn.
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Well I mean, she is making money using the horse? I’m not sure how that is confusing to see. My friend pays board increase fees as they go up, just like everyone else. But yes, my friend is absolutely free to move to one of the big commercial barns in the area, pay around the same amount or possibly $50-100 more per month, but have access to an indoor/outdoor/wash rack, grain, etc, and where they compensate for lesson horse use a nominal amount (which again is very common in our region). And the barn owner is totally free to purchase her own horse to do the things she needs done in her clinic, however, the barn owner will have to pay for that horses purchase price and all the stuff that goes along with it.
Here’s the thing, my friend isn’t looking to get free board here, but $100 off per month for board? Yup, that’ll work well for her.
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For some more context, the large commercial barns in the area with all the fixins like indoor, outdoor, wash racks, tack lockers, various grains to chose from charge around $1,300 to $1,500 for full care. Great! It’s what the market can withstand. My friend is at a small backyard facility with none of the above. She buys her own grain, mucks her own stall a couple days a week “to help out”, pays for lessons, training as needed, etc. There is a simple round pen for riding/lessons. It’s a typical backyard which a few horses live in, and she pays $1,200 per month. There are no hired staff, the landlord of the property handles capital improvements. There are literally less than half a dozen horses there.
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If it bothers your friend that they are paying too much for not enough then your friend should find another barn.
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She doesn’t think she’s “paying too much”. She’s not trying to get anything for free as evident through my comments here. It seems as though the BO might be however. If you had, say, a classic car that you pay to maintain, and pay to store it at a classic car storage facility, would you be ok with the owner of the classic car storage facility using it as a taxi cab 6 hours a week? Sure, the storage owner isn’t making a killing off people storing their classic cars. He can make money however buying his own classic car and kicking out one of the customers so he has space to store his own car which he will then need to purchase, maintain, restore, pay for fuel. But then he can make all the money he wants using it as a special classic car taxi that he can charge $125 per hour. But instead, he’ll use your classic car and that’s it. You’d still be expected to pay for any maintenance, cleaning, fuel, oil changes, damage. Like, really? You’d be cool with all that?
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OP, I agree with you completely. The BO and the horse owner need to sit down and have a clear discussion about terms. I’m really shocked that the board is siding with the BO. A horse owner shouldn’t feel bullied to offer her horse in any kind of lesson without compensation.
I can hear the people siding with the BO saying, “but she can just leave.” C’mon, this can be very logistically difficult for a horse owner.
Even from a liability perspective it’s sketchy, if there isn’t a contract and a formal agreement.
The fact that owning a barn is difficult and doesn’t bring in much income is not an excuse to randomly profit off of the horses of the boarders without clear consent of the horse owners. In fact, even if the horse owners didn’t know any better and thought this was standard, it should still be made clear to them if and when they could withdraw consent. What if I didn’t want my horse used in a groundwork clinic on a 90F day? Without an agreement, how can I say to the BO, hey, it’s in my contract I can tell you no, because it’s my horse, and I’ll ultimately have to bear the consequences of care if he gets overheated? What if the people at the clinic unintentionally instill bad manners in him? I’ll have to deal with the consequences of untraining him.
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you are working under the assumption that the BO is making money hand over fist. We hear time and time again how boarding barns barely break even.
That means the farm owners are subsidizing your horse habit with their property and their labor.
The alternative to the BO making money is them closing the farm down.
However since you have filled in the plot holes in the story, your friend needs to have a convo with the BO, and decide whether the care of the barn is worth risking over a few bucks a month.
The possibility of her having to move the horse is always on the table.
However, there is the option to have a non-controversial conversation with the BO.
Just because g-you has financial trouble the BO does not have to cut your cost.
Hay, diesel, feed, etc, everything is going up. You don’t expect the BO to eat the cost, do you?
Anyway, this is for the horse owner and the barn owner to hash out.
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Not siding with the BO per say.
the idea that the BO is making money hand over fist is just absurd.
And with barns closing left and right…one has to find a more adult way to voice one’s displeasure.
I am not siding with the barn owner.
I am simply saying that this is between the friend and the barn owner. Period.
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It sounds like the horse owner has very few options for board in the area, the BO is aware of the fact. She just wants some additional compensation for the extra risk/liability she is shouldering for the use of her horse. I think it’s pretty gaslight-y to say that the owner isn’t being an “adult” just because she wants clarification about the exact terms of her boarding agreement regarding how her horse is being used by others than herself.
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The adult thing is to talk to the involved party.
gaslighty? sheesh.
There are several options for the HO to negotiate this.
But it involves the contact between them and the BO.
I am just baffled at the OP’s assertion that the mean old BO is making ‘huge profits’ from her weekend events, for a barn with no amenities.
I think she knows less than she thinks. It is however the horse owner’s to clarify the situation. we can only speculate.
And yeah, when you have limited options you have to weigh the pros and cons.
And from what I gathered it wasn’t the OP who was worried about insurance or liability.
they were more worried about the BO making extra money after - gasp - adjusting the board rate to the rise of cost for every dang thing under the sun.
it ain’t gaslighting when you point out the numerous assumptions under which the OP operates.
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I am not siding with the barn owner here, but I still think the OP is conflating board and training and is not considering that someone has to keep horse sane, kept and fit for friend’s occasional rides and lessons. If friend doesn’t like said arrangement, friend should find another arrangement or retire the horse, IMO.
If horse is not used in said lesson (which you have stated is mostly groundwork), who would be working with said equine? How much would that cost for the HO? Would the person working the horse be compensated? You say you work at a barn, so you should know how much time goes into working horses and into care. I rode just two horses today (mine and one other), and between grooming, tacking, riding and putting up, I was at the barn for almost four hours. Today, unusually, I didn’t have to turn anyone out or take anyone in, but it was a LOT of time regardless. When I ride more? Forget it. That’s a 40 hour week.
If your friend doesn’t want to pay for horse to be worked and doesn’t want horse to be worked without compensation, then why doesn’t your friend retire said equine?
I agree with @trubandloki that it sounds like you are the one pushing the issue.
Again, it sounds like you think that a horse should be able to occasionally work without any work in between. I don’t think that is fair to the horse.
I disagree. Board is for housing and feeding and cleaning up after a horse and caring for its basic needs. Training is for exercising it. OP’s friend does not consistently exercise the horse and expects to ride and lesson on it. Who does OP’s friend expect to keep horse fit, happy and in work?
I agree with this 100%, but I would add that said friend cannot expect horse to be riding/lesson fit if said demands are made.
But board is for housing horse. Are all the other boarders expecting BO to exercise horse too?
BUT: What do those commercial operations charge on top of board for training/exercise? I’m my area, board (at these prices) is a losing proposition. Training and showing make money.
At the end of the day, maybe she can get a few bucks off of said lessons - but maybe she is getting a bargain to have the horse in some semblance of work without having to pay for it. If she is so upset, maybe just retire the horse.
It’s really up to friend and BO to negotiate. And it’s complicated.
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I’m pretty surprised at the responses here. It is absolutely standard practice for the horse owner to be compensated for the use of the horse in lessons. That can be a fee per use or reduction in board based on x number of lessons per week or whatever, but the horse owner is owed something for the value that the horse brings to the equation.
Even if the horse is benefiting from being used, even if the horse owner is benefiting from the horse being in regular work, unless the horse is being given a training ride, any lesson where the trainer collects money from a third party for the use of the horse should result in some compensation for the horse owner.
I’ve been on both sides of this, as an owner and as the person giving lessons. The horse owner deserves something to offset the upkeep of the thing that makes the lesson possible.
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I am an amateur, not a pro, but I guess my question for you is: if horse would otherwise sound but not in work, would you expect it to work for occasional ride or lesson? I wouldn’t. And while I agree that most horses utilized in lessons have some sort of compensation built in, would they otherwise have a job? Probably not, and I don’t think it is reasonable to expect a horse to have a sometimes job. Keep them riding fit or don’t.
Edits made.
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It’s got nothing to do with whether the BO is making a profit. It has to do with her using this horse not owned by BO for commercial purposes to run her business without an agreement that such use is part of the boarding arrangement as is. HO also seems to be paying the same amount as other boarders whose horses are not used. It’s not the same as offering a horseless friend some free saddle time, although one could just as easily only offer a horse for at a minimum a partial care lease. This is using the horse for a business purpose. There are insurance implications. The BO might not be making any profit at the end of the day. But in that case, they’d be losing money having to pay to own their own clinic demonstration horse.
Both parties need to talk. HO can absolutely say no to use of the horse. Who cares if he isn’t used much by the owner? Plenty of retired and semi retired horses out there living their best lives. HO can absolutely demand a fee for use of the horse by BO for business purposes. BO can also say neither of those work for them and ask horse to leave. I think raising board for this horse would be a red flag since it sounds like board is the same for the other horses that are not used—either raise board again for all or up the clinic fees to account for horse’s use fee—pass those on to the clinic customer.
Continuing on as is will likely continue to have the line blurred as to who controls the horse and key decisions for horse and cause stress for the owner. If she doesn’t want to engage in any confrontation, she should just move.
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I’m not sure that line of thought is actually applicable here. It sounds as though the BO is giving horsemanship type workshops using the horse not particularly geared towards exercise.
At any rate, it would be more common IME to match a horse needing more rides with a rider needing more rides via a partial lease (where the HO gets $) rather than just letting folks use the horse for free. Not sure that’s applicable to this situation either though as a small private barn without riding amenities doesn’t sound promising for a lease.
TBH I think this whole situation sounds likely to go south. HO is described as struggling to make this horse’s bills. BO is unlikely to react favorably to being asked to pay for what she was getting for free.
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