Barn with no electricity help!

[StormyDay]

So first off this isn’t my barn, but a friend of mine who is going through this struggle. She bought a house about 5 months ago on just under ten acres. She has been working to get everything ready to bring her own horses home but found out that, basically, she can’t have installed electricity in the barn because of some BS local codes. She’s trying to fight it but she needs to get her horses home within the next month or so.

Which leads me to my question. Has anyone had a barn with no electricity? The barn is close enough to the house that she can run an extension cord, but she isn’t sure that’s safe or even what the maximum load she could have on that is. Really, at a minimum she needs to run about 8 overhead lights and to be able to heat up a hot water heater.
Anyone have experience with solar panels? I feel that those might be more $$ than she wants to spend though.

is this even possible? Is there some option we aren’t thinking of?

[mellsmom]

Yes, actually, I did have no electricity for quite a while in our VA place. What I ended up doing was going to Bed Bath abd Beyond where they have these battery operated light bulbs that have a pull chain. They put out some weak light, but it was enough to feed by after work. I have the small solar outdoor lights but most of them do not work all that well. The motion detector ones don’t last all that long because they can’t hold but so much of a charge. I also tried the marine battery operated power packs to run some basic cfl’s because I did not want to have gas in the wooden barn. That sort of worked, but tthey required frequent recharging and died fairly quickly. But they will work as a stop gap until she figures something out.
Has she tried wooing the power company by asking them to install a dusk to dawn light out by the barn? If they can do that, perhaps they can be pursuaded to run a line to the barn since they are already out there

[mellsmom]

https://www.thepowerstore.com/xantrex-xpower-powerpack-1500-backup-power-system?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-eyq86iv1wIVFrXACh3utQPKEAQYASABEgIFyvD_BwE
I had an earlier version of this. Just don’t run them totally out of juice because that apparently kills them. In theory you can re-charge them using solar panels. That would be above my ability level, but I imagine one of our COTH members can tell you how. I think I remember that mine had a place to hook the panels up to.

[2DogsFarm]

Curious as to why local power company won’t run a line to her barn.
Here I had to get a separate meter for the barn, could not just add to my existing house acct.
They had to put in a pole (N/C to me) - something about distance from existing poles - & I have a separate account for the barn.

Caveat:
If you are able to get service to the barn request a Remote Read meter.
I had issues with meter readers coming onto my property & leaving gates open.

[trubandloki]

There are lots of battery powered LED lights available now that would work great in this situation.

If the barn is so close to the house I am confused why she needs to have a water heater in the barn.

[Kmacht]

Find out exactly what the issue is with running power to the barn. Most likely she can’t get another power drop from the current meter or have a new meter installed. If the barn is close enough to the house to run an extension cord then there shouldn’t be any reason she can’t have a sub panel in the barn fed off of the house panel. It will require running the proper wire from the house panel buried 18" deep in conduit to a panel in the barn and then running light and outlet circuits off of that panel. If she is going to hire it out it will probably be a few grand to do. If she can dig the trench herself it will save a good chunk of that.

[hosspuller]

Can’t have power run or must be installed according to local building codes are very different cases.

Which is it ?

[StormyDay]

Thanks everyone. She has thought about just running a proper line from her house to the barn and not telling anyone. The county she is in is a total PITA. They are threatening her with large fines and having to tear down the whole barn if she runs electricity to it. I have zero background in construction so I have no idea as to what violation they think she is breaking but she has a lawyer looking into it. They seem to believe that the barn qualifies as a second residence on the property which is illegal so she has to keep it as a ‘farm shed’ which can’t have electricity or some BS like that. This is the second person I know to run into similar issues there so I’m not surprised.

Anyways, for the moment she needs to figure out how to get electricity to her barn. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated!

[trubandloki]

@StormyDay

They seem to believe that the barn qualifies as a second residence on the property which is illegal so she has to keep it as a ‘farm shed’ which can’t have electricity or some BS like that.

Does it have to do with building permits? Did they get the wrong type of building permit when they built the barn (which probably cost less) and now them wanting to upgrade the barn means a change of use which requires a bunch of new inspections and other code such things? I am betting upgrading the shed to a barn with electricity will greatly change the value of the building and up their property taxes too.

And… if this town/county/city/province has laws about such things it seems like it is something a person should look into before they decide to build there. I am guessing this rule that you call BS was there already.

@StormyDay

Anyways, for the moment she needs to figure out how to get electricity to her barn. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated!

Lots of ideas already given.
Another option is to just get a generator and run it while you are in the barn.

I asked above, what is the water heater needed for? That question (power for a water heater) is hard to answer unless we know what type of water heater you are talking about. It seems like a strange thing to have as a must on the list when the barn is so close to the house that an extension cord will work.

[StormyDay]

@trubandloki

Does it have to do with building permits? Did they get the wrong type of building permit when they built the barn (which probably cost less) and now them wanting to upgrade the barn means a change of use which requires a bunch of new inspections and other code such things? I am betting upgrading the shed to a barn with electricity will greatly change the value of the building and up their property taxes too.

And… if this town/county/city/province has laws about such things it seems like it is something a person should look into before they decide to build there. I am guessing this rule that you call BS was there already.

Lots of ideas already given.
Another option is to just get a generator and run it while you are in the barn.

I asked above, what is the water heater needed for? That question (power for a water heater) is hard to answer unless we know what type of water heater you are talking about. It seems like a strange thing to have as a must on the list when the barn is so close to the house that an extension cord will work.

I’m really reading a hostile tone in this post. Maybe that isn’t your intention but my post here wasn’t about why she can’t get electricity the normal way but what she can do in the mean time to make her barn workable.
The barn was already on the property when she moved in. It has water to it but not electricity. It was completely set up for horses otherwise when she moved in.
She lives in a colder climate and needs a hot water heater for washing horses in the winter. She will need a separate one for doing that since her husband probably won’t take kindly to washing the horses inside the house lol. The barn is about 100 feet from the house. short enough to run an outdoor grade extension cord. I think she plans on using one of those instant hot water heaters so she can unplug it.

[trubandloki]

@StormyDay

She lives in a colder climate and needs a hot water heater for washing horses in the winter. She will need a separate one for doing that since her husband probably won’t take kindly to washing the horses inside the house lol. The barn is about 100 feet from the house. short enough to run an outdoor grade extension cord. I think she plans on using one of those instant hot water heaters so she can unplug it.

No hostility here.

In the long run it will probably be best for her to be extra nice to the code officials and find out what they need for her to legally make the barn have electric. Which sucks but …

In my colder climate it is too cold to wash horses in the winter but I get what you are saying. For now probably best to buy one of those propane powered hot wash systems. A tankless electric water heater uses quite a bit of electricity. More than she is going to be able to fake out there.

Another idea is what I do when I need warm water to wash one of my horses. I am very red-neck here. I run a hose out of the house (from the faucet on the laundry room wash tub) and use that for horse uses when warm water is required.

I have those LED battery powered lights in several places outside (no electricity in my chicken coop) and they make an impressive amount of light.

I guess I just fine electricity to be dangerous and scary so the idea of not putting the electric in legally seems like too much of a risk.

[McGurk]

I do not have power in my barn, but I do not keep horses up in stalls except for very brief periods, so that makes it doable. I don’t bathe in the winter. I do run a long, outdoor extension cord out to the water troughs to keep the troughs ice free.

I think the only answers to the scenario you’re describing are kludgy, labor intensive and possibly dangerous.

I think your friend may have to give up on the idea of bathing her horses in the winter or do whatever she needs to do to work with the local authority to legitimately run power to the barn.

[Texarkana]

I didn’t have electricity in my barn for 5 years. However, it sounds like my needs were less than your friend’s needs.

I put up several of these solar powered lights inside the barn:

https://www.amazon.com/MicroSolar-Lu…AKA7W9PEZ0Y5F4

I was really pleased with the lights. They worked flawlessly and I could and would leave them on for hours at a time (with battery powered lights, I felt like I was constantly replacing batteries). They made it bright enough I could pick a stall or knock dirt off a horse; I wore a headlamp if I really needed to inspect something in the dark. They only lost charge on me a couple times over several years of use, and that was during a long stretch of dark, rainy weather in early winter when the days were shortest.

I was able to do everything else I needed by running a heavy duty outdoor extension cord from my porch. Ideal? No, but it worked. I ran my fans in the summertime, tank de-icer in the winter. The vet would plug into the extension cord to scan my broodmares or run his power float.

I brought my hot water from the house, but had kicked around the idea of purchasing one of these:
https://www.sstack.com/product/insta…ashing-system/

I investigated solar panels + a battery inverter, but in the end, I couldn’t justify the cost. Plus, I don’t know enough about them in terms what type of DIY kit would have met my needs.

[Brave_Mucker]

generator?

[Jim_in_PA]

@trubandloki

In the long run it will probably be best for her to be extra nice to the code officials and find out what they need for her to legally make the barn have electric. Which sucks but …

I agree with this. It’s very important that your friend ascertains exactly the reason(s) that currently prohibit electricity to be extended to the building…which is likely a zoning issue since with very limited exceptions, local jurisdictions tend to follow the National Electrical Code for specification purposes. The NEC doesn’t say anything, more or less, about what kind of buildings can have electricity or not. It only provides guidance as to what’s required for electrical service to be safe and properly installed for the purpose.

There may be some “history” with this property and the building that pre-dates your friend’s purchase, too. Your friend needs to work with the local zoning officer to get to the bottom of things and come up with a plan. If there is still refusal to approve simple electric service for safety and incidental use, your friend may want to check with the real estate folks and title company that assisted with the property purchase as there may or may not be recourse if the property was represented in certain ways and cannot be used in those ways because of this legal barrier after the purchase was completed.

In the interim, using a generator (which must remain outdoors and a few feet away from the structure, to provide power for “temporary” lighting, etc., should get things by in the mean time.

[mmeqcenter]

Perhaps she can run a generator outside the barn, and run extension cords to it for power. What does she need a hot water heater for? Could she just turn the generator on when she’s at the barn for lights, and let it heat the water up for an hour while she does other stuff, or does she need the hot water available at all times? I would assume a big enough generator can run a small water heater, but I expect she’ll be buying a lot of gas that.

Lights, could do a series of rechargeable battery ones.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/WORX-1500-L…oaAgj0EALw_wcB

That wouldn’t help the water heater situation, though.

[StormyDay]

Her climate is cold and quite muddy in the winter and she also has some thin skinned sensitive horses so a heated water source is a must. Her current plan is to only have the barn ‘plugged in’ when she is there so there is a minimal fire risk.
@Texarkana Thanks for the links. I will send her those!

Do you guys think a generator would be safer than just plugging in the extension cord when she needs it?

[DancingArabian]

For the hot water, she could look into something like an InstaHot system. Portable and they work very quickly - runs off a standard propane tank.

[McGurk]

Someone here (trubandloki?) will remember the exact formula that I have a dim recollection of from school, but you lose a certain percentage of power with every so many feet of extension cord. Which means that if you’re running a lot of cord, the actual output at the end of the cord will be very weak.

It takes a lot of power to heat water.

So if your friend is absolutely determined to have hot water to bathe horses, I think running a hose from the house or a generator are her best bets.

ETA: Tried to Google the formula for voltage drop, but it depends on the size of the cord and what it’s rated for as well as the length of the cord. Bottom line, though, even with a heavy duty outdoor cord, at runs greater than a 100 feet, you’re going to have significant loss of power.

[gumtree]

@McGurk

Someone here (trubandloki?) will remember the exact formula that I have a dim recollection of from school, but you lose a certain percentage of power with every so many feet of extension cord. Which means that if you’re running a lot of cord, the actual output at the end of the cord will be very weak.

It takes a lot of power to heat water.

So if your friend is absolutely determined to have hot water to bathe horses, I think running a hose from the house or a generator are her best bets.

ETA: Tried to Google the formula for voltage drop, but it depends on the size of the cord and what it’s rated for as well as the length of the cord. Bottom line, though, even with a heavy duty outdoor cord, at runs greater than a 100 feet, you’re going to have significant loss of power.

This is true, voltage drop due to resistance. There are plenty of websites that give details, specs for sizing wire/conductors based on the length of the “run”. But 100 feet is should not be much of an issue depending on demand. For an electric hot water heater 10-2 should be sufficient. Would need to check the tables.