So I am in the process of re-training a mare who we have narrowed down her anxiety about jumping to the fear of being hit in the mouth… Specifically the bars of her mouth. I have tried several bits from rubber dee rings to Pelhams and even gone in a bit less bridle and hackmore.
She is happiest in French link baucher. I realize it’s not conventional for the hunter ring, but she loves it. Is relaxed and for the first time I can actually start to ask for more contact without her fussying or fighting.
In other bits she immediately starts to get tense and seems ready to fight and flings her head. But in the baucher she is soft and relaxed.
I don’t plan on doing any A or even B shows anytime soon. So I’m just wondering how terrible it would be to go into a schooling show with one on. Would I simply be excused from the class while on course. Or would I just be given no score?
I would really like to start her in the hunters so it’s easier and more straight forward for her.
Have you tried a fullcheeck French link? With keepers it should act in the mouth exactly the same as the baucher.
Mine goes in a baucher for dressage, and hacks at home in a fullcheek FL, and seems equally happy in both; she’s very fussy about too much movement in the mouthpiece.
Why would you be excused or given no score? There is nothing illegal, or even unconventional about a Baucher. You may be snickered at by know-nothing teenage twinkies, but go ahead, use it, and find eight good ones.
You won’t be excused from a class, but you will be marked down for having an “unconventional” bit. Schooling shows have a bit more leeway, so go ahead and ride in it.
[QUOTE=Madeline;8297960]
Why would you be excused or given no score? There is nothing illegal, or even unconventional about a Baucher. You may be snickered at by know-nothing teenage twinkies, but go ahead, use it, and find eight good ones.[/QUOTE]
A Baucher is an unconventional bit in the hunter/equitation ring.
I have tried full cheeks, not in a French link but a lozenge type mouthpiece. For some reason when I use them with keepers they tend to sit very strangely in her mouth. Her dentist did say she has a weird folds on the inside of the mouth. I used a full check on my gelding and have never seen a full cheek sit so weird. It looked uncomfortable so stopped using it.
Where in the rules do you find this? They may not be seen on a regular basis, but where’s the rule?
I simply do not understand how anyone can compete in any sport and are incapable of managing the navigation of a simple rulebook.
GEEEEE where do I find a rule book?
https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/RuleBook/2015.aspx
WAIT but that’s ALL the rules, where are the rules for HUNTERS???
https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2015/17-HU.pdf
BUT THERE ARE SO MANY PAGES, and my ctrl F isn’t working?!?!
SUBCHAPTER HU-4 ATTIRE, TACK AND EQUIPMENT
HU125 Tack
- Snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are required.
a. Judges may penalize, but may not eliminate, a horse or pony that competes in an unconventional snaffle, pelham, or full bridle. Unconventional snaffles, pelhams, or full bridles include, but are not limited to, hunter gags, kimberwickes, etc.
b. Judges must eliminate a horse or pony that competes in bits other than snaffles, pelhams or full bridles, and nosebands other than cavesson nosebands. Illegal bits include, but are not limited to, three rings, gags (other than the hunter gag), et cetera… Illegal nosebands include, but are not limited to, drop, flash and figure eight nosebands.
Nickelodain, I am well aware of how to access a rule book online and can read. But unlike the Dreesage rules book on bits and what is approved, I find the rule book rather unclear and to me bizarrely vague.
I’m sorry, but to say “unconventional Snaffles, Pelhams, or full bridles includes, but are not limited to , Hunter gags, kimberwickes, etc.” Isn’t exactly laying down the law or crystal clear.
I’m not blind and I am well aware that the baucher is hardly the go to bit for the Hunter ring… I was simply posing the question of just how unconventional it would be… Seeing as it doesn’t specifically say that bauchers are considered unconventional or illegal.
While I find the dressage rules on bits somewhat overwhelming and and a little confusing when you get down to the nitty gritty, at least it’s very clear as to which bits are considered illegal.
So excuse me if I was hoping for a little more clarity from some current riders in the Hunter ring for rules that seem to think et cetera is crystal clear.
To everyone else who has responded to my post, thank you for your input.
You will be absolutely fine at a schooling show with a knowledgeable judge. I daresay the same for rated shows. A Baucher is not “conventional,” but it’s also not a harsh bit. Now, if you showed up in the rated hunter ring with a Kimberwicke…
Have you tried a Waterford dee ring or a double jointed happy mouth dee?
However, some people do think the baucher has leverage so a judge might also assume that.
I used a Boucher on a hunter at rated shows and did just fine. I don’t think judges really care that much unless you had something that was against the rules or very odd! Lay down the good trips and don’t worry about it if your horse is happy!
Where’s Janet, the Queen of all Rules Questions, when we need her?
[QUOTE=Köttbulle;8298631]
Nickelodain, I am well aware of how to access a rule book online and can read. But unlike the Dreesage rules book on bits and what is approved, I find the rule book rather unclear and to me bizarrely vague.
I’m sorry, but to say “unconventional Snaffles, Pelhams, or full bridles includes, but are not limited to , Hunter gags, kimberwickes, etc.” Isn’t exactly laying down the law or crystal clear.
I’m not blind and I am well aware that the baucher is hardly the go to bit for the Hunter ring… I was simply posing the question of just how unconventional it would be… Seeing as it doesn’t specifically say that bauchers are considered unconventional or illegal.
While I find the dressage rules on bits somewhat overwhelming and and a little confusing when you get down to the nitty gritty, at least it’s very clear as to which bits are considered illegal.
So excuse me if I was hoping for a little more clarity from some current riders in the Hunter ring for rules that seem to think et cetera is crystal clear.
To everyone else who has responded to my post, thank you for your input.[/QUOTE]
I was not being snarky to your post, which is valid as the rule is not clearly defined. However, there was a post later which asked “Where in the rules do you find this? They may not be seen on a regular basis, but where’s the rule?” The rule is where ALL of the rules are, in the rulebook.
The rule sucks, its unclear, and is left up for interpretation. See: ammy rule for another example. That doesn’t mean the rule doesn’t exist.
A baucher can be seen as unconventional due to the fact that it has a fixed rein placement, is not a D ring, Full Cheek, Egg Butt, or Loose ring, and is not currently in fashion. Pick any of the above for why a judge might knock you for it. Or a judge might not care. It’s hunters, it’s subjective.
If you have a perfectly suitable horse in a baucher at a schooling show, likely you’ll be fine. Or you might run across a judge that doesn’t like the baucher, or doesn’t like the fact that your horse is bay, or coat is blue, or helmet is black. You pick it. Judges don’t have to justify their reasoning, you’re paying them for an opinion. You can then take or leave that opinion as you see fit.
Sorry Nickalodian if I miss read your tone… I guess I was a bit defensive since you always hear people say “just read the rule book” and to me it’s so vague. Glad to know I’m not the only one that feels that way!
I think I have been spoiled by years in the jumper where it’s anything goes… And yet my gelding went happily in the 3’6"-3’9" division in a Waterford full cheek.
[QUOTE=equisusan;8298662]
Have you tried a Waterford dee ring or a double jointed happy mouth dee?[/QUOTE]
I have tried her in a Waterford dee and full cheek. Haven’t been able to convince myself to purchase a happy mouth. I Showed her in a Mylar comfort no pinch bit at her last schooling show. Which she tolerates but then gets the tension and while she doesn’t fight violently you can clearly see the tension and she doesn’t look like she is relaxed and accepting of the contact.
I had a bit of a light bulb moment when a friend/ trainer said to be sure not to pull down on the bars of her mouth. The one but she has constantly liked is a Pelham with a lozenge mouthpiece. but even in the mild Pelham she tends to get anxious. But she loves the baucher.
So it sounds like we will keep using it. And if it becomes an issue with a hunter judge we will have to cross that I hate when we get to it!
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8298747]
However, some people do think the baucher has leverage so a judge might also assume that.[/QUOTE]
I had always thought that too. And was quite surprised when I saw it as a legal bit for dressage. Apparently in dressage they don’t feel it is. Which is good for me because my boyfriends big mare loves her stubben lozenge baucher… Sadly the mares take different sizes… 5 1/2" to 5" is just a little too big of a difference to share a bit. Darn it! Of course my endless search for a bit that my mare likes has only fed into my mild bit collecting addiction… Okay it’s more than mild… ??
I can see why the rulebook can be considered vague, but the rule is "SUBCHAPTER HU-4 ATTIRE, TACK AND EQUIPMENT
HU125 Tack
- Snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are required."
Then it goes on to specifically eliminate gags, 3 rings, kimberwickes, etc. That’s pretty clear to me.
And , FYI, running martingales are not even “unconventional” any more. That’s a long way from being the only permitted martingale (as it was long ago) but it at least removes a really stupid prohibition. I wonder what a judge would do if they saw an Irish martingale?
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8298747]
However, some people do think the baucher has leverage so a judge might also assume that.[/QUOTE]
Some people need an elementary physics class, as do many winter drivers…
Leverage: the action of a lever, a rigid bar that pivots about one point and that is used to move an object at a second point by a force applied at a third.
(A Baucher only has 2 of 3 required points for leverage)
Apologies for snark, this particular misconception drives me batty
