Baucher method

[Kyzteke]

@spirithorse;5047406

Kyzteke states:

I don’t see any “fairy dust,” or pretense that he has made up this method himself. He clearly states he studied under Racinet.

Just because he states he studied under Racinet it does make him a learned student. .

OK, I’ll give you that.

And having a keyboard and an opinion does not make any other poster on this board knowledgable either.

So how come we have to assume that you and the other nay-sayers know what you are talking about and the OP is a “snake-oil salemans”, etc.

Can’t you ALL be full of sh!t?

So let us all sort it out…I’m thinking I don’t need to be saved by yet another “expert” from COTH-land.

In other words, I ain’t seeing any videos of you guys either, so why should I take your opinion on the knowledge of the OP?

I think Anky makes one of the ugliest pictures alive riding a horse – obviously many people disagree. But some don’t.

So I strong suspect alot of this comes down to what our eyes like…I like the idea AND the vision of lightness & expression and I see very little of it in the ring today. So I am interested in investigating other roads that might offer that aspect of horsemanship.

If you think it’s nonsense, then don’t embrace it, but I’m not seeing that the OP is preaching any methods that are any worse than much of what is practiced today already…

[mbm]

[QUOTE=ideayoda;5051497]
Lifting a la PK are to mobilize the jaw and open it and get it to seek the hand NOT merely to lower the neck. [/QUOTE]

of course. i was trying to make is super simple so folks could see what i was writing. and i did say “seek the bit” …

anyway, I am reading the Jean Froissard book and on the very first page he says that “equitation without Impulsion is unthinkable, but Impulsion without calm turns into shear disorder”

this book also has great explanations and pictures of standing flexions for those that are interested

[eagles]

Anyone who thinks I was not a learned student of Jean Claude need only ask his wife and others that continue to send people my way when asked who in this area they should go to . Also feel free to Ask Mestre Luis Valenca In Portugal If I was a good and long time student and friend . He has a website and a phone number . If you ever saw the footage of him recieving his awards in Portugal as a Master from the Portuguese school in front of thousands he was riding my horse Nepal . I think he knows me .

[spirithorse]

Sanders/Baucher/Racinet versus little old ignorant me

Mr. Sanders;
The discussion is predicated upon whether Baucher’s methods have ‘maintainable validity’ regarding classical schooling of dressage.

I set down the gauntlet and you have choosen to ignore it. That speaks volumes because I am not trained by all the masters you have been and yet I am most willing to ride the ride.

Once again Mr. William Sanders;

Now Sir, if you really wish to justify your disparging statements regarding bitless riding and the knowledge I have acquired:
I would be most willing to openly ride with you in a public demonstration of your Baucher methods against my methods, which by the way, I have learned from the horse’s ala Podhajsky.

Are you up to the challenge and willing to ride the ride? Or are you simply full of diatribes and retoric?

We should make this a hugh publicity event and any funds raised should go to a local horse protection charity.

We should really make it challenge by having some interested individuals provide us with horses that have never been schooled in either’s methods.

And: we should exchange horses after we school in our partucular methods to see if any differences arise from equipment and methodology changes.

Pure and simple, Mr. Sanders, I am most willing to show publically that although I am not a great rider, nor so well educated as you; I can produce correct schooling in a dressage horse. There are many roads to Rome but few are smooth and so it is with the numerous dressage schooling methodologies. Your road and my road are not perfect, so the road chosen must be taken solely for the benefit of the health and welfare of the horse.

[ThreeFigs]

Take the bet, Master Sanders! You won’t regret it and the two of you might raise some good money for a worthy cause. I’d fly out to watch this exhibition, so put your money where your mouth is.

By the way, who bestowed the title “Master” on you? If it was from your studies of accupuncture or martial arts, does that still apply to riding?

Like Alicen, I have a genuine curiosity – don’t let the jokin’ & pokin’ fool you. I probably have more texts by French/Baucherist authors on my bookshelf than mbm has on hers.

[mbm]

oh never mind…

i will say that i dont think i have seen such a statement of ego in a long time…

[ginger708]

Eagles how do you work with a horse that comes out of the stall completely relaxed? Do you still go through all of the flexions or are you able to get on and ride? You said that you may flex after you mount if there is still pain and tenshion is this done at a stand still?

[mbm]

i believe he said he uses the flexions to check and see where the horse is that day? so even if the horse came out relaxed it still would make sense to test various responses to see how the horse is responding, no?

[ginger708]

I will put up money for this ride The musetash vs. the bitless it will be the clash of the dressage titans. Even better that the money goes to a good cuuse.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=spirithorse;5051634]
Mr. Sanders;
The discussion is predicated upon whether Baucher’s methods have ‘maintainable validity’ regarding classical schooling of dressage.

I set down the gauntlet and you have choosen to ignore it. That speaks volumes because I am not trained by all the masters you have been and yet I am most willing to ride the ride.

Once again Mr. William Sanders;

Now Sir, if you really wish to justify your disparging statements regarding bitless riding and the knowledge I have acquired:
I would be most willing to openly ride with you in a public demonstration of your Baucher methods against my methods, which by the way, I have learned from the horse’s ala Podhajsky.

Are you up to the challenge and willing to ride the ride? Or are you simply full of diatribes and retoric?

We should make this a hugh publicity event and any funds raised should go to a local horse protection charity.

We should really make it challenge by having some interested individuals provide us with horses that have never been schooled in either’s methods.

And: we should exchange horses after we school in our partucular methods to see if any differences arise from equipment and methodology changes.

Pure and simple, Mr. Sanders, I am most willing to show publically that although I am not a great rider, nor so well educated as you; I can produce correct schooling in a dressage horse. There are many roads to Rome but few are smooth and so it is with the numerous dressage schooling methodologies. Your road and my road are not perfect, so the road chosen must be taken solely for the benefit of the health and welfare of the horse.[/QUOTE]

sorry, i have to say it… dude - dont you get that he really doesn’t want to talk to you? you and others are so incredibly rude and arrogant ! i just hope you treat your horses better!

[ginger708]

[QUOTE=mbm;5051665]
i believe he said he uses the flexions to check and see where the horse is that day? so even if the horse came out relaxed it still would make sense to test various responses to see how the horse is responding, no?[/QUOTE]

Well no unless I am under reading again which I’m not sure how that is possiable I was reading at a college level in 6th grade. He said that tension could come from the horse just hanging out. So I guess I am asking him to clairafy.

You know this may be out of your relm of reference but you seem a little Margret Hulahan to the Master’s Frank Burns. Maybe the master will speak for himself. Since you have eluded to pretty much stumbling on things randomly with your horse And know nothing of the French school.

[mbm]

this is what i was referring to

"SO before I ever mount my horse I do him a courtesy and I check these things with flexions . I have been taught to watch for certian signs the horse gives me in the direction of the ears etc and can tell at once if it is stiff today on the left or right, has a tight back etc BEFORE I put my weight on "

seems pretty straight forward to me…

[ThreeFigs]

Houlihan & Burns!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ginger708]

[QUOTE=mbm;5051687]
this is what i was referring to

"SO before I ever mount my horse I do him a courtesy and I check these things with flexions . I have been taught to watch for certian signs the horse gives me in the direction of the ears etc and can tell at once if it is stiff today on the left or right, has a tight back etc BEFORE I put my weight on "

seems pretty straight forward to me…[/QUOTE]

I do the same thing it’s called grooming. I just want to know why the horse need so much preflight checks before you get on? And what is going on that the horse is so stiff all the time?

[ToN_Farm]

[QUOTE=ginger708;5051666]
I will put up money for this ride The musetash vs. the bitless it will be the clash of the dressage titans. Even better that the money goes to a good cuuse.[/QUOTE]
My money is going on the bitless. That is because I think horses need to be acclimated to the Baucher system slowly. I’d like to see some of those 10 inch shanks on an OTTB. :eek: Probably most horses would go ok in the bitless. Besides, Spirithorse would probably allow the horse to canter or galopp and the Baucher rider would be attempting to restrain the front.

[ThreeFigs]

I dunno. Have you seen any of the film/stills of Spirithorse riding?

Of course, we still don’t know if The Master CAN ride. No photographic or video proof of that. He talks the Baucherist talk, but can he walk the Baucherist walk?

So, yeah, we know Spirithorse has thrown a leg over a horse at least…

[lstevenson]

@mbm;5050847

any good trainer will say exactly what is above - that the mouth/jaw are the keys to the entire horse. and keeping that in mind does not make you a hand rider!

Oh really? Most good trainers say exactly the opposite. The mouth/jaw of the horse (and the whole carriage of the front end) is just a function of the state of the back and hindquarters.

Get the back and hindquarters working correctly and the horse will be soft in it’s jaw. Going at it from the mouth end is hand riding no matter how you sugar coat it.

Only truely engaging and lowering the quarters makes the front end rise. Raising the neck artificially usually results in tightening the back and ends up stifling the horse’s motion. Which is evident in the short choppy strides seen in all of the Baucher videos posted.

[spirithorse]

Might suprise YA

@Beasmom;5051731

I dunno. Have you seen any of the film/stills of Spirithorse riding? So, yeah, we know Spirithorse has thrown a leg over a horse at least…

Beasmom;
Just might suprise a few folks…I did not post those videos to show perfection…I have no problem with my mistakes…:D:D:D:D

[lstevenson]

@ToN Farm;5048525

You see photo after photo of piaffe and the airs, with a little sprinkling of shoulder/haunches-in. Where is the extended trot and where is the extended canter?

I have gone to the websites of P. Karl’s students. These are those that have graduated from his long program. The photos are not impressive at all, and I have to assume they are the best photos the rider has; otherwise why put them on the website. Just more mincing looking trot on small grade horses.

I totally agree.

[ThreeFigs]

Thank you, lstevenson. Well said. And you know whereof you speak!