i agree you shouldn’t ride overbent… but no one i know who uses flexions rides over bent. and everyone i know who uses flexions rides back to front with impulsion and a light giving contact. <shrug>
[QUOTE=mbm;5052578]
right. and you can get the muscles to release through movement but also via relaxing the jaw/poll/neck etc.
it is not that you pull the head /neck into a frame , but unmounted you ask the horse to release… why his this so hard to understand?
what do you think a masseuse does?[/QUOTE]
Because at the end of the day we want to ride our horses. And really if you have half of a seat you can tell if there is something up with the horse before you get into any real work.
<shrug> different strokes i guess? if it works for someone, who are we to say it is right or wrong? isnt the proof literally that the horse goes well?
There is no pure dressage method this is an idea that you and the master seem to be hung up on. Most of us are obliging you by giving you a name for what we do besides Dressage so it is easier for you to under stand.
[QUOTE=mbm;5052626]
i am just curious - are you hands never moving at all? ie do your fingers not talk to the horse?[/QUOTE]
Think of the hands a Salt. To much and the dish is soured to little and you do no get the full range of flavor.
[QUOTE=mbm;5052873]
<shrug> different strokes i guess? if it works for someone, who are we to say it is right or wrong? isnt the proof literally that the horse goes well?[/QUOTE]
Except for the video of Nuno that Pestoriejunkie (sp) put up I did not really see anything spectacular. To me the horse was over bent and Nuno was totally using his body not just his hands.
[QUOTE=ginger708;5052816]
I have been trying to get that for two days now. Good Luck.[/QUOTE]
Ta dah! Got’em.
I just finished reading Baucher’s first flexion on foot in which the horse is “playfully” and “recreationally” inflicted with bit pain. Baucher says “The repetition of this exercise will give the most surprising results, even in the first lesson.”
I’m waiting for my techie adviser to tell me how to link the site.
[QUOTE=alicen;5052919]
Ta dah! Got’em.
I just finished reading Baucher’s first flexion on foot in which the horse is “playfully” and “recreationally” inflicted with bit pain. Baucher says “The repetition of this exercise will give the most surprising results, even in the first lesson.”
I’m waiting for my techie adviser to tell me how to link the site.[/QUOTE]
Well now we know why people are not fans.
WRONG
[I]
[/I]
Will you folks get a book on equine anatomy and study it before you blindly follow this false and illogical statement.
The jaw is not intimately connected through the muscle structure to the neck of the horse!
The “ Sanders/Baucher/Racinet versus little old ignorant me
Mr. Sanders;
The discussion is predicated upon whether Baucher’s methods have ‘maintainable validity’ regarding classical schooling of dressage.
I set down the gauntlet and you have choosen to ignore it. That speaks volumes because I am not trained by all the masters you have been and yet I am most willing to ride the ride.
Once again Mr. William Sanders;
Now Sir, if you really wish to justify your disparging statements regarding bitless riding and the knowledge I have acquired:
I would be most willing to openly ride with you in a public demonstration of your Baucher methods against my methods, which by the way, I have learned from the horse’s ala Podhajsky.
Are you up to the challenge and willing to ride the ride? Or are you simply full of diatribes and retoric?
We should make this a hugh publicity event and any funds raised should go to a local horse protection charity.
We should really make it challenge by having some interested individuals provide us with horses that have never been schooled in either’s methods.
And: we should exchange horses after we school in our partucular methods to see if any differences arise from equipment and methodology changes.
Pure and simple, Mr. Sanders, I am most willing to show publically that although I am not a great rider, nor so well educated as you; I can produce correct schooling in a dressage horse. There are many roads to Rome but few are smooth and so it is with the numerous dressage schooling methodologies. Your road and my road are not perfect, so the road chosen must be taken solely for the benefit of the health and welfare of the horse.
[QUOTE=ginger708;5052874]
There is no pure dressage method this is an idea that you and the master seem to be hung up on. Most of us are obliging you by giving you a name for what we do besides Dressage so it is easier for you to under stand.[/QUOTE]
lol!!!
Pure and simple, Mr. Sanders, I am most willing to show publically that although I am not a great rider, nor so well educated as you; I can produce correct schooling in a dressage horse. There are many roads to Rome but few are smooth and so it is with the numerous dressage schooling methodologies. Your road and my road are not perfect, so the road chosen must be taken solely for the benefit of the health and welfare of the horse.
What no playfully and recreationally inflicting pain to the horse?
btw: for those interested i found this:
http://equi-leger.fr/default.aspx
wish caroline was around to help translate 
eta it is interesting to note that the images of Baucher all look eerily familiar…
btw: for those interested i found this:
http://equi-leger.fr/default.aspx
“hollow backed” displays of lack of true collection and engagement
Here’s the Baucher Link http://books.google.com/books?id=iFUCAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=francois+baucher&hl=en&ei=tB90TOX4B6GanAeKrJy7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ
Start reading at pg. 75
[QUOTE=mbm;5052965]
btw: for those interested i found this:
http://equi-leger.fr/default.aspx
wish caroline was around to help translate
eta it is interesting to note that the images of Baucher all look eerily familiar…[/QUOTE]
I want to know where is the dressage arena where horses are horse doing the Hail Hitler? I want to go to them and bring popcorn. And what other pictures on this site look like dressage to you?
[QUOTE=mbm;5052965]
btw: for those interested i found this:
http://equi-leger.fr/default.aspx
wish caroline was around to help translate
eta it is interesting to note that the images of Baucher all look eerily familiar…[/QUOTE]
Those horses had some seriously bulging muscles on the undersides of their necks.
thanks for the link to the Baucher book. Google is very cool
I think that if we are going to compare Baucher’s “harshness” we should probably compare it to others of his time frame.
clearly we are much much more humane in our handling of horses than what went on 100’s of years ago.
also, it seems to me that what was taught by Baucher and the other Masters of dressage, has been filtered, combined, diluted, refined etc.
I have read other books from that time frame that were difficult for me to read because of the harshness. However that does not take away from the information that has been passed down and that has shown to be correct and workable.
I see modern people (trainers, etc) doing horrid things with their hands/seat that i can only call abuse… so it isnt only guys form the past that had a corner on that market.
Each horse has its own “book” and it behooves the trainer to have as much knowledge as possible even if it means studying different/opposing schools -
[QUOTE=alicen;5052996]
Here’s the Baucher Link http://books.google.com/books?id=iFUCAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=francois+baucher&hl=en&ei=tB90TOX4B6GanAeKrJy7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ
Start reading at pg. 75[/QUOTE]
The parts from pp 75-77 read like the transcript of a Parelli lecture, down to talking about “playing” with the horse.
I do agree with everyone who has said it’s all about taking what works from different people, being humane, and working out what works for specific horses.
enjoy. I hope these links work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5e1qNdAoR0&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjtVLKZGFBg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZ31XXvzcw
What school? What parts of what schools? Does the end justify the means?
