[QUOTE=alicen;5053697]
Yes, it is the first method, before the chandelier fell on him.
Fun juxtaposed with Baucher? Baucher doesn’t impress me as being a fun kind of guy. But yes, I admit a morbid interest in comparing the 1st and 2nd method.[/QUOTE]
I agree, they write such sweet books, some of them, but when you see their picture :eek:
OK, I live in a state that just might elect (if it does, I might have to move) a guy who has declared himself board certified by his own board of opthalmology. (he did not like the current american board of opthalmology when they allowed older geezers to be grandfathered in and not have to recertify, so he declared his own “board of opthalmology” He is the president, his wife (not a doc) is vice pres, and his father in law (not a doc) is the sec/tres) So this thread confirms, anyone can certify themselves, MD, rider, whatever.
Thus: I AM NOW A MASTER OF RIDING. (I took the op’ correspondence course don’t ya’ know, to quote the Scarlet Pimpernel?
[QUOTE=Beasmom;5053721]
PFB, surely the Master has read Baucher – both methods.
By the way…where IS he? After all, he did start a very lively discussion of Baucher, his methods, and the French School. He should be proud.
I’ll probably curl up with Phillipe Karl’s big book tonight. It’s delightfully illustrated and looks like a good presentation. It’s been in my reading queue right behind “A Confederacy of Dunces”.
Really.[/QUOTE]
In his absence, someone needs to take his place…Alicen?
Baucher method 1 and Baucher method 2. Beginning to sound like before and after Emperor Constantine’s vision
“Appels is shocked by these intimidating and slanderous remarks by the official team trainer of The Netherlands and considers taking necessary legal steps against this.”
Considers, it says considers.
Steph, thank you for posting this summary. This represents my understanding of the 2nd manner, as well.
mickydoodle wrote: So this thread confirms, anyone can certify themselves, MD, rider, whatever.
Oh yeah, I’m sure we’re all certifiable in some way or another.
Poet-Steph, thanks for the lightbulb moment-Yes! I would think that paroling the horse (removal of hands and leg) leads to the ability to do movements without the bridle altogether. How else?
I just finished Racinet’s book - I just looked for it, now realizing that I accidentally tossed it in the trash at work (I thought it was another book I had).
The thing I couldn’t understand was that the guy sounds uber obsessed with having perfect soft hands, but when you look at pics of him, his horses look overbent/behind the bit as well. I wish pics would really give a true example of what an author is writing.
[QUOTE=netg;5053022]
Those horses had some seriously bulging muscles on the undersides of their necks.[/QUOTE]
Can I ask what that is indicative of? Thanks
He went back over to TOB. It’s safer over there with all the rules and moderation.
[QUOTE=smartchance;5053757]
Can I ask what that is indicative of? Thanks[/QUOTE]
Correctly ridden horses are supposed to be softly arched onto the bit, which builds the muscles on top of the neck. Under the neck is indicative of poor riding and a hollow horse or a horse who’s heavy on the bit, and building muscles in the wrong place.
You are built different than the horse:D
Humble apologies to the Members
:eek:Seems my persistence regarding the Challenge has sent the Master scurring into the shavings of someone else’s forum.
He called my challenge circus…
oh well, a horse charity missed out on a great opportunity to reap the labors of our efforts.
Gosh, It appears I am to stupid to be in the same arena as him.
I am honored to be acquainted with the members of this board who have roasted me, it has made me a better man. Guess this kitchen gets to hot for a Master of soooo many things.:lol:
Ok, Spirithorse. Clench your teeth. Now feel your neck muscles, those big ones below the ear. You can’t clench your teeth and keep your neck muscles soft & relaxed.
Now tighten your neck muscles. Is your “poll” supple? I thought not.
Now soften your neck muscles. You can move your skull easily around from the axis/atlas joints now, can’t you?
And it’s easier to talk or chew, isn’t it?
Yes, we’re obviously differently built from horses, but there are enough similarities to draw parallels, too.
what is TOB?
[QUOTE=poetaperegrinus;5053585]
I have only a little understanding, but it seems to me that this discussion is hopping around because of limited understanding of Baucher or the “French method” (and there are of course several), and the (understandable) inclination to try to grasp the differences by reference to “normal” dressage. The trouble is, that we treat the FEI rules as THE RULES, handed down by on high. But there is nothing sacred in these rules, and they have been revised several times, each time becoming, I think, rather more German (and perhaps more suited to German horses.) When we think dressage, we think German dressage, even when we don’t realize it. It is what we compare all dressage against, even how we determine what is “classical”. But if we have curious minds, we might try to see dressage from a different angle. But if we try to immediately judge its procedures and outcomes by THE RULES, we will learn nothing. When faced with two very different systems, one must understand how they work internally, and how they work in their own context, before trying to make a definite comparison.
I thought maybe I could help a little, since I have been pouring over Philippe Karl’s Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage (really really interesting by the way, even if you’re wary of this whole “French thing”, it will make you think!) for the last few months, trying to understand it. I am hoping to get a hold of Racinet’s books soon, and then maybe I will want to retract all this!
But: the three main principles of Baucher’s 2nd method, filtered thru Philippe Karl, as I understand them:
Steph[/QUOTE]
Excellent ! I’ve been reading PK’s book too and your explanations helped clarify some things for me. Thanks ! Maybe we need a thread for those who are reading PK’s book.
Jaw neck connections
Ghazzu;
At one time I had the pleasure of having a vet that was a retired U.S. Cavalry vet.
This gentleman introduced me to the ‘actual’ connections of the muscles in the jaw/head of the horse and the neck.
The natural position of a relaxed jaw for a horse is in a closed position [not clenched]. A horse will not stand around with his mouth open to let in all the flying pests as a dietary supplement.
We humans can clench our jaws shut and still have supple neck muscles, allowing us full flexion of our ‘poll’.
Now what has provided the ‘working’ evidence for me is that when schooling in SB there is no resistance in the jaw, throat latch or neck…yet when we place a simple snaffle bit into the horse’s mouth the resistance shows up in various forms; including opening the jaw to avoid the bit and a tightening of the poll region muscles.
Dr. Clayton clearly demonstrated that a bit must depress the tongue in order to set inside the mouth, and/or press upward against the palate. There is not one horse in the world that is going to NOT have some form of resistance in the muscle structure of the head and neck in order to displace the discomfort of the bit.
Care to work bitted as we work our horses?
I am not against the bit, I am against the misuse of the bit through ignorance, as well as, someone just plain following the leader.
Spirithorse, since I am not blessed with a gap between my incisors and molars or the requisite elongated muzzle: no, I would not like to wear a bit.
Neither would I care to one of your bitless contraptions on my head.
Your vet’s ideas about the connections of muscles are mistaken. Sure, I can still move my head around while clenching my teeth, but it is movement with resistance. When I relax my jaw muscles, I can rotate my head around with ease.
When a horse tightens its jaw and neck muscles, it can use that tension to resist and fight. It doesn’t matter if he’s wearing a halter or a bridle.
You are trying to build your arguments on shifting sand. As usual.
Spirithorse, whatever issue you have with eagles is not shared by others and is annoying to keep seeing your personal axe grinding appear here. I have enjoyed reading your posts where you are contributing to the actual discussion on the different French methods, but your other posts are forcing me to put you in my ignore list as just a generally annoying poster.
LOVE the ignore function 
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