Baucher method

[princessfluffybritch]

[QUOTE=spirithorse;5047344]
Anyone remember a 1963 film called,
'Miracle of the White Stallions"?

In the film, except for the closeups showing Robert Taylor riding, Col. Podhajsky was the lead rider in the film and the head of the SRS.

From the film please watch and enjoy the art of classical dressage…and not from Baucher’s schooling methods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-xYSsLC30w

at about 3:07 of this clip watch a “beautiful canter pirouette” that is not seen in the competitive dressage arena

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlUdh7gOlM[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link! That is certainly enjoyable watching those horses-that looks to be what dressage is to me. Notice they all work mostly with their nose vertical or slightly ahead of vertical, and I notice that their ears are so relaxed, I just love watching them. The canter pirouette is very nice and well worth seeing again what it should be.

[princessfluffybritch]

[QUOTE=egontoast;5047408]
Um Ok. How does your horse feel about that?

Not sure but i think it involves tequila and trampolines.[/QUOTE]

Maybe it’s schwung???

[princessfluffybritch]

[QUOTE=alicen;5047470]
Perhaps your thinking of schwung? http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Schwung.html

I think I prefer egon’s definition.

Nice word, nice feeling. And, yeah, a word that doesn’t spring to mind (sorry, pun not intended) when I think of Baucher/Racinet.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Thankyou, that’s it. And what’s happened to it? Doesn’t it need to be preserved?

[princessfluffybritch]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;5047784]
There are two topics going on in this thread. One is Baucher training and the other is the OP’s website and the fairy dust thing. Can we please drop the latter and just discuss riding.

Someone earlier asked if there are any videos of French riders doing other than mincing around in a small arena. I think this one of Catherine Henriquet shows a lot of schwung:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPUNsC5RNmA&feature=player_embedded

Antonym of Schwung: Mincing :lol:

Regarding the negative physical effect of the snaffle when pulling backwards, wouldn’t the double have even a more severe effect if the riding hauls back on the curb? I guess I’m missing how a double bridle or curb only could ever be more comfy for the horse.[/QUOTE]

I wish this team could be a representative of what French/classical/Baucher dressage is supposed to be, I can certainly live without the mincing.

[spirithorse]

Pure Dressage

PFB:
The schooling method at SRS under Podhajsky had nothing to do with Baucher and that is why it is so beautiful.
Horses that are free, fluid, supple, yet they are in collection with backs up and hindquarters engaged.

@princessfluffybritches;5047916

Thanks for the link! That is certainly enjoyable watching those horses-that looks to be what dressage is to me. Notice they all work mostly with their nose vertical or slightly ahead of vertical, and I notice that their ears are so relaxed, I just love watching them. The canter pirouette is very nice and well worth seeing again what it should be.

[lstevenson]

@mbm;5047604

do you not look for and teach the horse to seek the bit? not pulling, but an active looking for the bit?

if not, how do you get the horse to activate its topline muscles (aka bridge)?

or do you not think in those terms?

The Baucherists don’t want the horse to seek the bit. They want them to stay behind it at all times. They think that is “lightness”. Which of course it’s not.

And the topline muscles are rarely activated correctly because of that.

[ThreeFigs]

Excellent point, lstevenson.

[NOMIOMI1]

:yes: And so the throughness is missing.

The horse above in the video is in a halter. Just a question, wasnt one of the main differences of the OP’s style that he uses the shank early?

How would that video relate?

Just curious…

[mbm]

[QUOTE=JMurray;5047821]
The fairy dust people are now in my ignore list. The ignore list is your friend. I now have an uncluttered educational thread to read.

This is a great thread and it has sent me out to find more information on something I knew nothing about until this thread. I don’t need to agree with any method to become more educated about it…and then I can make my own opinion![/QUOTE]

<nods head in agreement > exactly!!!

[mbm]

[QUOTE=lstevenson;5047994]
The Baucherists don’t want the horse to seek the bit. They want them to stay behind it at all times. They think that is “lightness”. Which of course it’s not.

And the topline muscles are rarely activated correctly because of that.[/QUOTE]

i understand how you feel about the subject because it is clear that you pretty much hate the french system… or at least that is how it has come across all these years when you come on any thread re: french and tell us all how it sucks.

fwiw, i asked Eagles (or any other French/Baucher person) to answer my question.

thanks.

[ThreeFigs]

Yeah. That video of C. Henriquet riding with a halter is sort of a non-sequitur when you’re discussing Baucher.

[mbm]

as a corollary - horses are quite capable of using their backs correctly when they are free… i also know from personal experience that a horse does NOT need weighted contact to use its back properly under a rider. however i have my own ideas about why that is… which i wont go into…

but i am interested in what other schools think… i might just learn something! shocking as that might be !

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=mbm;5048021]
i understand how you feel about the subject because it is clear that you pretty much hate the french system… or at least that is how it has come across all these years when you come on any thread re: french and tell us all how it sucks.

fwiw, i asked Eagles (or any other French/Baucher person) to answer my question.

thanks.[/QUOTE]

Im not gonna search it right now, but the OP did say himself that the horse is to be slightly behind the bridle.

Are you actually reading his info or just arguing to argue?

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=mbm;5048024]
as a corollary - horses are quite capable of using their backs correctly when they are free… i also know from personal experience that a horse does NOT need weighted contact to use its back properly under a rider. however i have my own ideas about why that is… which i wont go into…

but i am interested in what other schools think… i might just learn something! shocking as that might be ![/QUOTE]

Yes lol but it definately helps

[lstevenson]

@mbm;5048021

i understand how you feel about the subject because it is clear that you pretty much hate the french system… or at least that is how it has come across all these years when you come on any thread re: french and tell us all how it sucks.

fwiw, i asked Eagles (or any other French/Baucher person) to answer my question.

thanks.

:lol: Since you think Eagles is the only one qualified to answer your question, here’s a quote of his:

[quote=eagles;5042430]In fact we want the horse ahead of the leg and behind the hand a bit .
[/quote]

[mbm]

yes, i read that part… still, i would like to hear what a BAucher person thinks about the idea of contact / activating the back etc.

i know that i have always thought in the german way, but now i am not so sure…

i have read other conversation with Baucer riders and they are talking about contact etc and while the method is different than i know the result sounds similar.

eta, again, just because a horse isnt pushing into the bit does not mean they cant use their back correctly.

i ride my mare all the time on weight of the reins and her back is swinging happily along.

also horse in nature use their back correctly! no bit needed

[lstevenson]

@mbm;5048024

as a corollary - horses are quite capable of using their backs correctly when they are free… i also know from personal experience that a horse does NOT need weighted contact to use its back properly under a rider.

The difference is that Baucherists ask the horse to shorten their neck and stay behind the bit with their constant “flexion” aids and curb bit (And of course they like the curb bit better. It works better for their purposes - to back the horse off of the hand.) This prevents the horse from using their toplines correctly. And the horse at liberty does not work under that handicap.

It’s the opposite of the “telescoping gesture” (seeking the bit) of the neck that we want.

[mbm]

again, i know what you think. and i know what i think.

I am curious about what a real live person who rides in the french and/or Baucher method thinks.

[alicen]

[QUOTE=mbm;5048051]
yes, i read that part… still, i would like to hear what a BAucher person thinks about the idea of contact / activating the back etc.[/QUOTE]

mbm, if you want to know what Baucherism is about, go to Baucher. Read the book and come back to report.

[ideayoda]

The difference is that Baucherists ask the horse to shorten their neck and stay behind the bit with their constant “flexion” aids and curb bit (And of course they like the curb bit better. It works better for their purposes - to back the horse off of the hand.) This prevents the horse from using their toplines correctly. And the horse at liberty does not work under that handicap.

It’s the opposite of the “telescoping gesture” (seeking the bit) of the neck that we want.

This is where many self proclaimed baucherists are misbegotten/incorrect. And they have no corner on the market of (problematic) curb use; look how many medium level riders put the horse into a full bridle in order to show without particular purpose. If you talk to the masters of baucherism, like PK or Henriquet, they want the horses to remain mobile in the jaw and immediately able to telescope fdo easily. The proper use of the topline (from back to front) is at the heart of using demi arrets correctly. The (standing) flexions laterally are to mobilize the jaw/change the entire balance of the horse, and that is to sustain the horse willing to go forward/easily made longer/shorter/freer/etc.

Any bit allows a horse to brace on the rider if the rider hangs on the bit or doesn’t understand how to introduce the horse to the individual bits. A snaffle should not act on the bars because the horse should not be closed/low, and it would also silence the mouth.

Since CH is a baucherist, the video is not a non sequitur at all.