Been through a lot with my horse, but wondering if it’s time to part ways. WWYD?

[2DogsFarm]

@dogsbody1

I’ve heard retirement and broodmare.

YES to the first option, HARD NO to the second.
Why pass on genes that may carry the same problem?
Foals are not a clean slate & research suggests the mare’s traits can be dominant.

OP, you’ve done a good job with limited knowledge & resources.
If you can afford to put this mare in retirement, that would be my choice.
If not, letting her go - via euth - is your only option to be certain her end was decent.
The “rescue” woman you describe is a red flag to me.
Nope to her suggestion

Wishing you luck in finding a solution that works for you & your mare.

[Simkie]

@2DogsFarm

If you can afford to put this mare in retirement, that would be my choice.

Given that the OP has not felt safe to even enter the field with this horse, retiring her to a pasture board situation where others are in the field with her seems a risk

[2DogsFarm]

Oops, obviously I missed that in skimming the post.
So retirement is out unless a facility where horse can be pastured solo & vet/farrier can work when needed can be found.

[Bluey]

@2DogsFarm

Oops, obviously I missed that in skimming the post.
So retirement is out unless a facility where horse can be pastured solo & vet/farrier can work when needed can be found.

It was also mention3d that she was not safe for vet and at times not safe for farrier.
Is sadly not only the OP that is at risk, but all others that may have to handle her at times.

[dmveventer]

@Simkie

That she has moments where she can be is great, and a testament to your patience, but you’ve seen, repeatedly, that it takes very little to set her off, and for her to be unsafe.

IMO the fact that the mare has good moments that make the OP think it’s not so bad after all just makes her MORE dangerous. A horse that has consistent triggers is one thing. A horse whose threshold changes constantly with no clear causes for the behavior is not one that is going to get better. This kind of horse tricks people into letting their guard down which is a recipe for disaster.

OP I know you want to make this work, but I think your emotional ties to this horse and your lack of experience are getting in the way of seeing the issues clearly. You’ve said yourself you don’t have the experience needed to retrain a horse with these types of issues, and she is putting your life in danger on a regular basis. She’s not safe on the ground, putting you and everyone else that has to work with her at risk, and you don’t know what’s driving the behavior so there’s no clear path to fixing it. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but believing that your relationship is enough to overcome her issues is not doing either of you any favors. More likely operating on the defensive for so long has led you to develop some bad habits out of necessity. Continuing like this is not going to make you a better rider or trainer, it’s just going to get you hurt and allow your mare to get more entrenched in her behavior.

[Paint_Party]

@dogsbody1

I got my first horse three years ago. I didn’t know anything about green horses or problem horses. But the buyers’ market was terrible, so I ended up buying a project horse through a connection of my trainer’s. It was with the understanding she would have to stay in a full training program.

(bolding mine)

To begin, I just want to say that I’m sorry this is your first experience with owning a horse. It shouldn’t be like this.

Beyond that, I have read your opening paragraph several times, and unless I’m misinterpreting what you wrote, it sounds like your trainer and her “connection” set you up with a horse that was not suitable for a first-time horse owner like yourself: a project horse with the caveat that it required being in a full-time training program.

And then, once the horse exhibited a dangerous vice, that same trainer advised sending the horse off to a rehabber… who then also sent the horse off, suggesting retirement… and so on. From the trainers to the vet and farrier, the horse has exhibited behavior that equine professionals prefer not to deal with. As hard as it is, you need to trust their judgement.

It’s admirable that you feel responsible for the horse. But while just about any horse can rear or buck under the right circumstances, that is not the same as a horse who rears as a form of protest, or as a response to stress or pressure. That seems to be what you have, and that is a dangerous, unpredictable animal. That’s a sobering concept I hope you can fully grasp. That’s why several professionals have walked away from this horse, and probably why she was labelled a “project horse” in the first place.

Sadly, this is another example of Life with Horses being unfair. Sometimes, cruelly unfair.

I’d find another trainer who will truly look out for your best interests. And then, unless you can find an affordable pasture board retirement situation with safely monitored human interaction, I’d euthanize the horse. She is being tormented somehow, somewhere, mentally, physically or neurologically. Some broken things can’t be fixed. Let her be free.

That’s my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Minxitbabe]

Why wouldn’t you euthanize? The horse is a generally a danger to the people around her. Doesn’t matter that there are good times animals that are that unpredictable are not meant to continue their time on this planet. Your odds of getting a better match picking something randomly from a sale barn sound better than what you have been dealing with so far. It isn’t right for you to continue to put any professional such as your vet and farrier much less any riding trainer in danger with this horse. Send her off on a day the vet can get close to her and take what has to be a huge boulder off your chest and shoulders. I cannot imagine living life with such turmoil being a possible daily battle.

[KBC]

@Paint_Party

I’d euthanize the horse. She is being tormented somehow, somewhere, mentally, physically or neurologically. Some broken things can’t be fixed. Let her be free.

That’s my opinion. I could be wrong.

This, so much this.

Pain can come from many things, and this sounds, from an outsiders point of view, like an ongoing form of torture for this mare. When she is happy in her head and body she’s great, but when something is wrong she explodes, her only form of communication. This over reaction isn’t going to change, she had no pressure release valve, and someone is going to get hurt.

Let her go when she is at peace and happy with her life, a good death can be better than a tormented life.

[Angela_Freda]

What happens to this horse if something happens to you and you no longer are making the decisions?
I couldn’t live with that potential disaster.

[RedHorses]

Setting your horse aside for a moment, what do you want to do with horses? What are you hoping to get out of your horse time? What was your imagined future when you decided to start looking for a horse to buy?

Now, how much of that are you getting with your horse? How much stress is the situation with your horse causing you? Do you find yourself just wishing you could go groom, tack up and just ride without worrying about how your horse will behave today?

I’ve been in a similar position, except I had experience with green/baby horses. It’s not fun owning a horse like this. It’s stressful, and there were days I simply couldn’t deal with it.

I couldn’t ride without doing some ground work first - even after longeing (for brain engagement testing, not settling down). It could take five minutes or half an hour, which made it incredibly difficult to ride with other people. If we did manage it, there were days I had to dismount and leave the group to return to the barn because he wasn’t safe. I think I tacked up, took him out to the mounting block, and mounted up once in the twelve years I could ride him.

I had this horse from two weeks old, and while I had brief periods of good times there was at least as much time frustrated, stressed, worried about him injuring him, recovering from getting hurt, etc. The difference is that my horse had great manners on the ground, was a pleasure for anyone to handle, and even the vet trying to tube him without sedation commented on how reasonable my horses were.

At the age of fourteen my horse was confirmed neurological. Long term, always been, untreatable neurological. I euthanized a year later. I learned a lot owning him, but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. My horse was stressed, anxious, uncomfortable for much of his life too. I wouldn’t put a horse through that again.

During that horse’s lifetime I had another horse. An easy, uncomplicated horse that I could enjoy without all the stress and uncertainty. That’s what I want out of my horse time. I want to be able to go places and do things with my horses. I enjoy working with baby and green horses, teaching them to be good citizens and bringing them along as riding horses.

I loved my neurological horse. He was cute, fun to ride (when things were. good), willing to try, wanted to please, liked being with people - all the things. It was heartbreaking from suspicion of neurological issues to diagnosis to deciding to euthanize to euthanasia. I can’t change the past, but I would not do it again.

Think about what you want. Don’t get sucked into the black hole of “If I can just…” Unless you want to.

[Simkie]

@dmveventer

IMO the fact that the mare has good moments that make the OP think it’s not so bad after all just makes her MORE dangerous. A horse that has consistent triggers is one thing. A horse whose threshold changes constantly with no clear causes for the behavior is not one that is going to get better. This kind of horse tricks people into letting their guard down which is a recipe for disaster.

Yes, very good point. And I don’t at all mean to insinuate that all this horse needs is more patient handling from “the right” pro (I realize upon rereading that it could be taken that way.)

I keep coming back to this:

@dogsbody1

I suspect that’s what the woman who offered to take her thinks. She seems pretty confident that she can turn her around. And part of me thinks… what if she’s right?

Okay, if this person is right, everyone lives happily ever after.

But, @dogsbody1, what if she’s wrong? What are the consequences? Multiple professionals have called this horse dangerous and a bad actor. The risk if this lady is wrong are enormous. People could die. The horse could have a terrible life, or terrible end to her life. You can control that risk now, but once she’s out of your ownership, you lose that control.

[Bluey]

A quirky horse that has dangerous quirks can be seen as similar to living with an abusive person.
Nice times, but when something sets them off, they become from unpleasant to dangerous.

No one owes such humans or horses or any other to be subservient to and live thru such dangerous situations .
Can they be changed, perhaps, but at what costs until/if they do become decent individuals that are not threatening?

OP gave it a good try, three years and many others trying to help worth.
That is why she is asking for more advice.
Plenty advice has been given, much for all to learn from and consider.
Hope this all may help the OP and anyone else reading.

[OnAMission]

This situation reminds me of two things I have had to boil myself down to on some hard decisions in the past: Better safe than sorry and Better too soon than too late. It’s a very crappy situation to be in and causes a lot of turmoil because emotions are heavily involved, wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

[atr]

OP, I’m sure you weren’t expecting this overwhelming response to your question, and it must be quite shocking to you.

You are probably thinking “but they don’t really know her!” But the thing is, those of us who have been around horses and owned many horses over many years, have either observed or been involved with this situation probably more than once and may well have been seriously hurt in the process. I know I reflect on one particular horse that I owned for years and realize now know more that I was damned lucky he didn’t kill me.

And you don’t often get this level of consensus from this group of very experienced people. So do take the advice on board and think hard about it.

Owning a horse shouldn’t be like being in an abusive relationship where you are constantly making excuses for the other partner’s behavior.

[findeight]

@dogsbody1

ended up buying a project horse through a connection of my trainer’s. It was with the understanding she would have to stay in a full training program

First point, too late now but you need a trainer with at least some concern for YOUR best interest verses treating you as a regular income source. You also need neutral advice from pros with no financial interest in your decisions,

Did you pay the mares owner directly or did you pay trainer who took care of paying her friend, the seller?

Did you pay this trainer an additional commission or finders fee when you bought the mare?

Did this trainer get some of the sale price from seller, trainers friend?

When trainer sent horse to a “ rehabber” did she get a “referral fee” for sending them the horse?

The Rescue, will take her for free…yeah, so they can turn around and sell her or ship her back to a low end auction ( which may be where she came from, horses with bad reputations often get shipped to a different area auction),…while telling you their grandkids are riding her.

That other trainer will take her free…so she can turn around and sell her or send her back (see above).

Nobody you were depending on has done you any favors here and they may have taken financial advantage of you. I am sorry you find yourself in this position. Terrible introduction to becoming a horse owner. Cant believe they sold a novice a horse they knew had to stay in full training. Rip off.

Not that I believe they knew she was dangerous, just that they didn’t really know her at all and had no business selling her to a novice…they likely recently either bought her cheap or she went through the auction. But wherever, they did make good money off OP trying to train her up.

The only trainer who has told OP the truth is the one who refused to keep the mare in her program or barn. Truth hurts but there you have it.

Anyway, OP, if you get sick or hurt, who is going to handle the mare who is admittedly scary on the ground? What happens if she gets caught in a barn fire, who would get her out and how with just 2 or 3 minutes between living or dying? What if her pasture floods and its get out or drown? Barn collapse and fences blown down in a windstorm? Trailer accident? Shes got no chance and could hurt somebody trying to get her out.

Again really sorry this got dumped on you by those you trusted.

Nothing wrong with a dignified, peaceful end. That would be a gift to this poor mare who is likely tormented by very normal things…she does not understand and is scared. Release her.

[phantomhorse]

@dmveventer

IMO the fact that the mare has good moments that make the OP think it’s not so bad after all just makes her MORE dangerous. A horse that has consistent triggers is one thing. A horse whose threshold changes constantly with no clear causes for the behavior is not one that is going to get better. This kind of horse tricks people into letting their guard down which is a recipe for disaster.

@Paint_Party

She is being tormented somehow, somewhere, mentally, physically or neurologically. Some broken things can’t be fixed. Let her be free.

I am another that would be euthanizing this horse. There is something very wrong here and sometimes no matter how hard we try or how badly we want to, we cannot fix it.

OP, I am so sorry this was your introduction to horse ownership. You have gone above and beyond in a situation you shouldn’t have been put into to begin with. Please don’t let this be your last horse by continuing on until you are injured or killed (or someone around you is).

[dogsbody1]

@atr

You are probably thinking “but they don’t really know her!” But the thing is, those of us who have been around horses and owned many horses over many years, have either observed or been involved with this situation probably more than once and may well have been seriously hurt in the process. I know I reflect on one particular horse that I owned for years and realize now know more that I was damned lucky he didn’t kill me.

And you don’t often get this level of consensus from this group of very experienced people. So do take the advice on board and think hard about it.

Owning a horse shouldn’t be like being in an abusive relationship where you are constantly making excuses for the other partner’s behavior.

I know, but I do worry people are making worst-case assumptions, for example, suggesting I wait for a day she lets the vet get close and then euthanizing her. Is it true that I once had to call off a lameness appointment, because the vet couldn’t physically get hands on her for an exam? Yes, but that was two years ago. And was it true that her behavior was so wild and out of control that I didn’t even feel safe standing in the pasture with her? Again, yes, but again, two years ago. In her latest round of vet exams for Lyme and ulcers, she was fine. The vet handled her all over, took her temperature, she didn’t flinch. She’s had hour-long appointments with her body worker where she allows all kinds of handling and manipulation and is perfectly calm for it. When she feels safe in a certain environment and understands the expectations on her, she’s not a difficult horse.

[atr]

Good, reliable, honest and consistent training situations can be hard to find and are usually very expensive.

Whilst its absolutely not right that it happens, do ask yourself why your horse is the one that gets skipped in the handling and training department. I know I’m not alone in having had personal horses that I’ve gone “I just don’t have it in me today to deal with this one.” Of course I’m not being paid to do it and my horse is probably just hanging out in a paddock if I don’t get to it, but you can see how this happens.

Sorry, there’s no easy answer to your quandry.

[dogsbody1]

Your story makes me so sad but also because so many points of it sounds so familiar. I just can’t imagine euthanizing this horse. I do think I need to take some space and try to be more objective and less emotional about it, but I have just never of someone euthanizing a horse for behavioral reasons in real life.

[atr]

Not to pile on, but another thing to consider. If and when you have your own horse property, you will be going it alone, literally. Having an unpredictable and difficult horse can make your life really miserable at that point (I know this to be true from bitter personal experience.)

You can’t leave town and leave them in the charge of a farm sitter. If they hurt you, there’s no backup to take care of everything else. There’s no great incentive for a farrier to come deal with your lone potential problem horse. You have to worry about keeping kids, neighbors, dogs, away from them, etc, etc.