I have zero desire to see the video, but thanks for that info re: reaction to the “rear”
Aside, re: the “bolt”
My 17h+ WB former GP Jumper had the same evasion of getting light in front & then rush ahead.
Always when asked for a canter depart.
Think:
GP round, whistle/bell sounds & you want horse to be OFF! for time.
He was 14 when I got him with a show record going back 8yrs.
I was asking for a quiet depart, no fences ahead.
What corrected him was letting go of reins when I asked. No leaning back, just solid seat & no tension in the reins.
Got so it felt like I just “thought” canter & we had a lovely, soft, depart.
From the videos I watched it was not a combination of the rear and the bolt. The horse in some instances would choose to rear when asked to go forward. And then other instances, when being worked, would suddenly get very broncy. Not so much in the same session. Just two different kinds of evasions. That is why I suggested watching the two videos. Things become very clearer.
It is good to try and find the positives in any situation. Most horse owners prefer Not to experience a horse like that and for good reason.
Passing her off to a rescue is something I couldn’t do with a good conscience. With her past history of doing ok for a while and then going off the deep end I wonder if she has some mental issue that will just get worse as time goes on? I would say keep her and handle her yourself or euthanize.
Rescuses really should be for horses who have a chance to be ridden or useful. I don’t know why this person would want her with the past she has?
@dogsbody1 If you are still offering the video clips I would like to see what she does.
That is the way it works around here. Breakfast is fairly standard… within an hour either way. Turnout follows the breakfast timing. Bringing them in and dinner can vary wildly, depending on weather, schedule, miscellaneous things going on…
And no one fusses. No one is banging on the gates. No one is freaking out. They know it will happen - and they are fine with whenever it happens. Unlike next door at the overstuffed boarding barn… where the horses are constantly banging on their gates in their little turnout runs, tossing feeders around and getting into frenzied pacing if the schedule is even slightly delayed. My little herd looks up the hill at all the commotion… shrugs and goes back to fun outside things.
I have dealt with a couple of horses over the years that had a Switch. No physical issues. No past accidents. Just NQR and unpredictably, explosively reactive with no warning. The pinto Icelandic gelding would spin and run full out into a wall or fenceline (if the Switch went off when he was in the pasture). I could handle him and get all the basics done… the farrier could work on him if I had his buddy next to him and they were munching hay out of the wheelbarrow. He was rideable - and smooth as silk on the trail but the Switch was always there… ready to flip on. I quit riding him. He was thoroughly vetted. The problem was the demons inside his head - for want of a better word. And finally his demons made the bad times outnumber the good times. I opted to euth him. I could no longer keep him safe - not even from himself. The vet came and we stood his BFF next to him in the arena in the sun… and the vet reached around the BFF to sedate him and then he slowly sagged to the ground at his buddy’s feet before the final shot. His buddy knew. He understood. He stood there guarding his friend in the arena that night, not wanting to leave and go back to the pasture. By morning it seemed he knew that his troubled friend was well on his way to the Forever Fields - and he could leave.
15 years later, there is a 4 yr old pony here who also has a Switch. She is stunning. She has a trot to die for. She has had no injuries. I foaled her out and know her very well. She had X-rays and a PPE as a 2 year old as she was on her way to California - and then the Switch went off. I cannot even get a halter on her at the moment… but until the BO makes the decision I will do everything in my power to keep her safe and see to her needs. But my heart breaks watching her on the barn camera at night - she will be happily eating her lights out snack - and then suddenly bolt in her stall, bouncing off the wall… with her neighbors calling to reassure her. This pony could seriously hurt someone despite her size - her terror overwhelms her. I have visions of the Icelandic gelding running flat out into the fence. She is not that sturdy or big. The filly I nurtured and scratched and groomed and clipped and loved on… is no longer behind those worried eyes. But I will keep her secure and safe… and the herd here understands that she is Different.
In the meantime - if anyone “finds” the pre-Switch bright bay pony filly with all the chrome and that incredible floating trot… who loved to be scratched Just There behind her left ear and greeted me talking at the gate with bright, happy eyes to stick her nose in her halter… please tell her to come home…
OP - you shared that your mare had shoulder issues… maybe something physical as well as that damn Switch are at play here.
@dogsbody1 I haven’t seen the video (if you could PM it to me that would be great) but want to mention that if you aren’t already, PLEASE wear a helmet EVERY time you are around this horse even while handling from the ground. Thank you
Well, it’s worth it to have the vet out and ask. Need to get a teeth float done anyway. And I’ve been dancing around doing imaging for years. I’ll ask if she can x-ray her neck and back too. Been an expensive year for vet bills between the Lyme treatment, ulcer treatment, and the other lab tests we did. But since I’m at an impasse right now, it’s now or never. And look, for what it’s worth, no one who has seen the videos has stood by the euthanasia verdict, if that tells you anything. She’s not a miserable, out of control horse who hates her life 75 or 50 or even 25% of the time. She enjoys her friends, loves dogs, cats, performing the tricks she knows for small children, and getting fussed over and groomed. She’s not at her best right now and it’s true there’s a simmering tension in her that never fully goes away, but she’s still light years easier to handle than she was at the rehabbers. Polite for the vet, the farrier, the body worker. Fine to have her blood drawn and her temp checked. And that’s despite being in her current depressing barn situation with no winter turnout and an unpredictable schedule for feed and hay.
As for my experience level, I wanted a horse my whole life, but never had the money or the time to start riding until the pandemic. So, I was a dead beginner still learning to post the trot until I Ieased an older horse for a year, and that was the horse I learned to canter on and the only horse I cantered on until I got my mare. So, no I don’t have decades of experience, and no, I’m not a skilled rider, and obviously I’ve had a very tough break in my experience with horses. But I did invest a tremendous amount of time and effort into my mare, and with no professional riding her or supporting me, went from having a horse I could only interact with by feeding her treats through the fence, to one I could walk, trot, and canter, and take on solo trail rides around the property. And even if it was short-lived, reckless, and small potatoes compared to the things other people are able to achieve with their horses, I’ll always be grateful for that experience that I got to have with her—because it did feel like a hallmark movie, it honestly did—even if I never get to have it again, and even if that’s all I ever get to say I accomplished as a rider.
So, OP, posters have given you their feedback on what they would do–what options are you realistically considering?
I personally am a little confused what’s in it for the rescue. Do you think the woman from the rescue genuinely wants to take on the horse out of the goodness of her heart and thinks she can turn her around? Would she want to keep her?
If you don’t give it to the rescue, what retirement options are you looking at and can the horse be safely handled in those situations?
Do you have the time and money to handle more diagnostics and training?
I’m a retired pro who, in my early career before I could afford to say “no, I won’t work with your horse” dealt with several horses with a rearing problem. It wasn’t fun, it was dangerous and none of those horses ever went on to be reliably useful, although the rearing stopped.
The worst one was Sam. He was a big leopard Appy gelding, about 16.1. He belonged to a little twelve year old girl who desperately wanted a horse so she could be part of the group of 4H kids I worked with. One session she showed up with Sam instead of sitting on the sidelines watching. She asked Sam to trot, Sam stopped and reared. He went up very, very carefully and it was clear he’d done this many times before and knew exactly what he was doing. I got on. Asked for trot after walking a bit, and he reared. I sent him forward sharply (or so I thought) and he flipped himself over backwards. I was ready and swung off the side of his neck so I didn’t get squashed.
Told the little girl that I could not let her get back on this horse. She started crying, told me her parents said is she wanted a horse, this was her one chance. Turned out they bought him for $300 at an auction.
After class I walked her and Sam home to talk with her parents. They went into immediate denial (not horse people) and said they understood that people fall off horses. I stopped them right there and said “We aren’t talking about a skinned knee or broken arm. We are talking about choosing a coffin and planning your daughter’s funeral.” Their response was “Then we’ll take him back to the auction” and my response was “Why? So he can kill somebody else’s child?”.
He was euthanized and it was the right choice.
Sometimes the best thing we can do is the right thing for the horse and stop thinking of our feelings. In the OP’s case, either retire the horse to a pasture where he will never be ridden, or humanely put him down.
I am looking at options for retirement board. And eventually one day, if I can make it happen, bringing her home as a pasture pet. There is one other trainer I’ve talked to with a nice farm and program, but I’m not sure it’s worth it to try. Maybe I will go there and try taking lessons instead, and just try out life as a “civilian” for a change instead of an owner.
The rescue situation is a bit weird. Basically, imagine an older, wealthy AO jumper with a soft spot for problem horses, who seems to accumulate a lot of projects but not necessarily have the time or focus to do much with them, so they are effectively retired, but treated to quite a nice retirement. Even when I was working with her as a trainer, I found her hard to pin down. She ghosted me or no-showed on more than one occasion. So, I think there was some wishful thinking involved that she could really turn things around for my horse, but maybe more realistically, I was open to the idea that my horse had found herself a fairy godmother who’d at the very least fund a nice retirement for her.
Well, I’m sorry you feel that way. I spent ~15 years rehabbing and riding horses exactly like this one so I know what I’m doing. I just got home from working with a horse that doesn’t yet stand on his hind legs, but has a reluctance to move forward that, when pushed, would probably turn into what this horse is doing. These horses need figuring out by a patient and experienced trainer, which I am, not the pink juice. I did in fact ask the poster where she was located, and if she wasn’t 2000 miles from me, I absolutely would have asked her to send the horse to me.
I mean, I can certainly understand that would sound ideal for you-if that is truly the situation with this woman. I am assuming you are on a limited budget, since that was why you bought this horse, and retirement for a healthy, young unrideable horse can be costly over time ( but it sounds like keeping her at home is an option-but you have to objectively as possible evaluate if that is safe).
Have you been using the same vet through all of this?
Haul her to a referral clinic and get multiple fresh eyeballs on her.
The imaging done in house is often much better quality than with a farm call, anyway. If you’re going to spend the dollars working her up, spend them in the place that’s most likely to get you some answers.
Neuro exam and interpretation of spinal films is a special skill set, anyway. You want someone who does a lot of it.
I don’t know how else to say it but if you just DM her she will share the videos and so many questions will be answered. There are two compilation videos linked to YouTube. That really show the OP is a kind compassionate rider with a very difficult horse. Everything else aside …. You will see she is simply trying to do what’s best. So to be honest I’m not sure why posters are not availing themselves of seeing the videos. It takes 5 minutes. It really gives a decent view. And would enable a better conversation.
