Ambrey, I have the uncomfortable feeling that whatever breed of horse you owned, you would be saying exactly the same thing - fighting tooth and nail to prove to these people on this bulletin board that they are exceptionally talented at dressage and can do all the levels.
I feel you need to step back and think a little bit about why it is so very, very important to you to prove that draft and draft crosses are so suitable for dressage, and to so determinedly not listen to anythign anyone says, and just argue back. I think it’s worth thinking about.
"It’s bad to crossbreed, so Trak-Arab-Thb crosses are bad’.
This was part of one of your arguments. I’d like to suggest that while you may feel these are really airtight arguments you’re responding with, they make no sense.
By definition crossbreeding is ‘good’ when the results are more consistent. Cross breeding is ‘good’ when the results are closer to the target. Cross breeding fulfills these requirements when more closely related parents are bred.
The definition of crossbred is generally that the desire is to use the first generation result for the intended purpose, and that the cross is not intended to be developmental or breeding stock for a future goal. The goal of the cross bred is to create an individual from that cross breeding, that consistently meets a specific goal.
Horses that already have blood lines in common tend to cross more successfully.
Aside from a very tiny addition of Arabian blood to Percherons, there is still very little ‘blood’ in draft horses. This was very deliberate and the distinction between the heavy and light horse breeds and characteristics was very strong for many years in horse history. There were, however, very old ‘ride and drive’ breeds - very active, fancy gaited horses with a very balanced conformation, yet a ‘middle’ build - not terribly slim and light, but nothing like a draft horse in mass or conformation - these existed as a separate type from the large tall heavy draft breeds for a very, very long time. They were not draft-thb crosses - they existed as a separate type. THESE are the horses that were used to develop warmbloods - by adding Arab, Thoroughbred, and Trakehner bloodlines.
One of the most successful crossbreds in the history of horse breeding has been Arab-Thb. Thb were founded based on Arab and related blood. They cross very successfully. Another very successful cross - Arab-Thb-Trakehner. Why? Trakehner already contains tons of Arab and Thb blood. Another very successful cross is Thb - Warmblood. Why? Warmblood pedigrees have contained Thb blood for hundreds of years. Yes, it goes way back. It is not a recent addition. Not in any way, shape or form.
When the British tried to create a child’s show mount by crossing Icelandics and THoroughbreds, the results were deemed a disaster. Why? Lack of consistency and lack of results to the target (ideal). Why? Because for 900 years, Icelandic horses were completely isolated, and no outside breeding was allowed. The Icelandic ponies arrived in England completely isolated from any other bloodlines.
The Welsh thoroughbred crosses, on the other hand, involve crossing ponies that have had improvement stallions (esp arabs and other ‘blood’) already brought in. They already had ‘blood in common’. Efforts to create a childs show mount worked very well, and there was more consistency in the results, and closer to target results.
I have been told 'It’s terrible to cross (baroque) breeds with any other breeds, and very often, I have to agree, the results are disappointing. Yes, somemtimes results are good, but it’s a function of genetics that the results are going to be inconsistent. Yet this is being done extensively and many people are wild about the results. WHy is it done? Economics. You buy an andalusian or frieisian stallion, there are very few mares to breed him to. You want to get your investment back.
Pure draft as well as draft crosses aren’t meeting the elite standards for top horses, they really never were intended to even come close to that, they were intended to be family horses, to have fun on, a little local showing, not too much money. Some salesmen have gotten carried away - that’s too bad, but it doesn’t really change the situation.
There is a type of balance, conformation, back and gait required - as well as a basic type, a medium to light type that stands up to years and years of training - generally, they do not have it. The examples Ambrey gives lack the conformation and gaits to make inroads in the elite levels. The one thing I see, aside from balanced mass/conformation, most lacking is gait quality - suspension and suppleness, the kind one starts out with, before any training, or training is miserable for both horse and rider. The balance problems are obvious, as are the lack of consistency - breed the same draft stallion and Thb mare together, none of the offspring will be of quite the same type, mass, balance, etc…there’s a great deal of diversity (due to genetic scatter). Too, not too many breeders are choosing the finest specimens for both parents…that adds to the problems.
There are a few people doing very well at this, but even they don’t normally claim their horses are capable of beating the top dressage horses.
Many are working with second and third generation mares crossed to a THb stallion - the results 7/8 thb, 3/4 thb, and the draft blood comes from refined, upright, non-extreme draft types carefully evaluated (not with stable-blindness) for sport type and gait and balance, as well as light duty breeds like the Cleveland Bay and from the old Remount registry that carried part -Thb horses for years in America.
Some might make nice lower level horses, or win in higher classes at smaller local shows where classes are so small that they aren’t really competitive. The ones who will do very well at the upper levels are - exceptions.
I am very sure that if the draft crosses were fulfilling the FEI requirements, they would be making more inroads at the top levels. They aren’t. Competitors are picking horses for the top levels of sport that fit a fixed criteria. The criteria isn’t going to change because the criteria makes sense and is logical.
However, I think the horse Ambrey has is very appropriate for her. He’s quiet and seems very sensible, a good horse to learn the lower levels on and be safe.
