[QUOTE=STF;3355007]
Does a banjo come with it too???[/QUOTE]
No joke, he was a serious classical musician, and very well thought of, too.
From Wikipedia:
âAdler was one of the first harmonica players to perform major works written for the insturment, often written expressly for him: Vaughan Williamsâ Romance for Harmonica and Orchestra, Milhaudâs Suite Anglais, and Malcolm Arnoldâs Concerto for Harmonica and Orchestra were all composed for him. Prior to these pieces, Adler performed transcriptions of pieces written for other instruments, such as violin concertos by Bach and Vivaldi.â
Thats great, but draft breeds were still made to pull not sit. Thats the point.
He was probably a very accomplished harmonica player. However - he was âjustâ a harmonica player, with all the limitations of that instrument.
You get my drift?
No I donât actually! :lol:
Well - thatâs no real surprise!
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3355036]
He was probably a very accomplished harmonica player. However - he was âjustâ a harmonica player, with all the limitations of that instrument.
You get my drift?[/QUOTE]
Yes. I have to admit I was indulging in some Friday evening leg pulling. But sometimes limited instruments can produce art, too, that is very pleasant to listen to even though it may not equal orchestra, soloists and chorus.
[QUOTE=canticle;3355042]
No I donât actually! :lol:[/QUOTE]
It means he is a mean harmonica player, but donât sit him infront of a piano.
Canticle- you keep taking what people are saying about drafts and dressage to mean they should stay out of the ring entirely.
People are just saying if you want to do upper levels, picking a draft may not be the wisest thing - yes there are some good ones out there, but it is much harder to find one.
Take a Belgian, a Warmblood and a Thoroughbred.
Whoâs going to win in a race? The thoroughbred - is that because of breed bias? No, thatâs because this is what the thoroughbred was built for.
Whoâs going to be the best at pulling loads? A Belgian. Is that breed bias? Should you teach a thoroughbred to pull a cart? No - yes, some thoroughbreds will do fine driving, but the majority (like the gelding I am trying to find a home for right now) will break down.
Whoâs going to be the best dressage horse? Warmblood.
it isnât breed bias and it isnât saying keep the Belgian out of the ring - just saying they arenât as competitive. The original poster was asking about Belgians and going past 2nd level. They arenât built for it, are not going to do as well in it, are more likely to have problems attempting to do something they were not built to do, this is talking about the upper levels only - not generally speaking.
No one is saying dressage wonât help them and working on collection, extension and lateral work will not help them, it just means they (as a breed) will not be as competitive.
Using your logic, this child never would have been encouraged to do gymastics because sheâs ânot built for it.â In this very real case (no, I didnât make it up because it fits, I really know these people :)) that would have been a tragedy, because this girl is GOOD.
As much as everyone is saying they are only talking probabilities, other issues keep creeping into the posts. âItâs unfair to make them do something they arenât bred for.â âItâs so much easier on a horse bred for it.â âThey are built for pulling, not carrying.â And so on.
If you look back at the posts of me, Lewin, Phyxius, Prodomus, and the other vehement supporters of drafts and crosses in dressage, the âpercentagesâ argument has never, ever been something weâve disagreed with. In fact, we all try to put that argument to rest over and over.
Itâs those other things creeping into the posts that we argue with. The idea that since percentage wise itâs less likely to find one suitable, one is a fool for trying. Or that one is truly unlikely to find one suitable (or that there really isnât a suitable one anywhere). Or that even those competing arenât really doing it right. All of those little things that happen when one takes a generalization and tries to apply it to individuals.
And then the definition of suitability creeps up through the conversation as well. From âable to go past 2ndâ to âable to get to GP.â If the latter is the definition of suitability, finding a suitable horse for dressage is truly a next to impossible thing, huh?
The only argument any of us have is that:
- There ARE drafts and crosses that are good dressage horses if you look for them.
- Drafts and crosses bring their own strengths into the partnership that makes some people willing to work through their weaknesses.
- Doing dressage is not going to hurt your draft if you do it right (which includes paying attention when things get tough for them).
- If you find a draft that is built well for dressage, they can get to the upper levels (defined by most of us as 4th/PSG).
- If you want to do dressage on a draft, you're in good company.
If you have no argument with the above bullet points, you have no argument with me. Iâve said a million times⊠I love warmbloods. Some of my best friends own warmbloods. I am only saying that if you make judgements on drafts based on limited exposure, youâre missing out.
Oh my God this discussion is still going on?..
What I want to know is which breed plays the harmonica best.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3355161]
Oh my God this discussion is still going on?..
What I want to know is which breed plays the harmonica best.[/QUOTE]
Tennessee Walking Horse
Mostly the BluesâŠ
:lol:
[QUOTE=Ajierene;3355065]
Whoâs going to be the best dressage horse? Warmblood.
I agree, a warmblood: defined by AWS :winkgrin:
What is a Warmblood Anyway?
Americans are used to thinking in terms âbreedsâ and âpure-bredsâ. We have been conditioned to think that anything else is sub-standard. We equate âqualityâ with having âregistration papersâ. This has occurred because for the past few hundred years, Americans have been breeding horses without any records being required. American breeders have been on their own, without direction or supervision of any kind. Over the years, a few enterprising souls have gotten together to create a place to track bloodlines, and so created a few American registries (i.e., Quarter Horses, Morgans, Saddlebreds, Appaloosas, etc.). They set up the basic guidelines for what bloodlines they would each accept, but beyond that people were on their own to decide what to breed.
In Europe things are very different. For the past few hundred years, European breeding has been strictly controlled. There is no such thing as a âgradeâ horse. No horse was allowed to be bred without being approved by the State-appointed local breeding director. (Note: there has been a recent loosening of some restrictions along these lines.) All horses are registered with the local breeding director, and the bloodlines are carefully recorded. The local breeding director maintains a great deal of control over the kind of horse that is produced in his area by selecting and approving a certain type of breeding stock. The director also makes strong recommendations to the mare owner as to what stallion should be chosen for a certain mare. Traditionally, the State has owned and supplied the stallions to each area, selected under the recommendations of the area director. The director, therefore, wielded a great deal of power over what was done within his boundaries.
However, these various districts are actually all in one big gene pool. State owned stallions were moved from one region to another as needed, and when a mare owner moved from one area to another, his mare band would move with him. Because mares could only travel a few days to a stallion by foot), these breeding regions were thus quite small about the size of one of our counties. Thus to call something a Hanoverian or a Westfalen horse was the equivalent of calling one of ours a Lake [County] or a Grundy [County] horse. If a Grundy horse moved to Lake County, itâs offspring would become Lake horses. Each would be approved for breeding as long as it fit within the breeding goals of its new Lake County breeding director.
Because the directors had so much control over the local population and they stayed in their positions for many, many years, they could control numerous generations within the areaâs breeding stock. These various areas would take on a very definite âflavorâ as defined by one manâs vision. A âtypeâ became identified with the breeding area. However, new blood was continually infused from other regions to improve the quality of the local stock, direct its evolution along the director-chosen path, and continue to keep the small gene pool from becoming in-bred. Breeding stock has always been and continues to be traded throughout Europe. But even though you cannot say that the blood is âpureâ, all bloodlines have been carefully documented and studied.
What is pure, anyway? Technically, the Arabian is really the only purebred; everything else has come from various mixtures. But then again, the Arab originally came from somewhere also, so what does âpureâ really mean? If you looked at the entire European continent as one big gene pool, then you could call the European Warmblood a âpure breedâ, but any smaller area could never be defined as such. Plus, you would also have to include the Arabian and the English Thoroughbred into that vast pool, as constant infusions of those breeds are being added.
So, in the 1950âs these horses started to come to America, people have a very different idea of what a âbreedâ is. When told that a horse is a Rheinlander, they donât understand that this horseâs full brother can be called a Dutch Warmblood! The brand that he received at birth is simply a designation of where he was produced. It has very little to do with specific bloodlines.
When sufficient numbers of these horses started to come over here, people began to start wanting to breed them. Not understanding the way regional warmblood breeding programs are run in Europe, Americans thought they were dealing with separate breeds, and attempted to keep the lines separate and âpureâ from each other. Instead of starting their own regional American warmblood-breeding program, they looked to the various parent European breeding organizations for approvals of American stock. Hence, there is now an American branch of almost every European regional breeding group. For the most part, the Europeans have been very confused by our odd insistence on the local regional connection, but have complied primarily for financial reasons. They do not consider the American groups to be a part of their local breeding program, but the American offshoots allow for a great way for them to continue to market their products. For the most part, these European breeding groups do not see the need to actually ârecognizeâ our bloodstock anyway. They send someone over who tours the country and offers advice, and in return they see it as a way to pick up some hefty consulting fees. For another fee, they have permitted an altered version of their local brand to be used here. Some will even issue a registration paper (for another fee) in a separate branch book of some sort. However, most do not consider that these bloodlines are within their breeding program, and if these horses were to be exported to Europe, they would have to be re-examined extensively before they would even be considered as allowed into the local breeding population.
A few Americans have caught on to the process and how it works. Those people got together and started the International Sporthorse Registry and the American Warmblood Society, in addition to a few others. These groups have understood the idea that these horses represent a âtypeâ rather than a âbreedâ, and select breeding stock from a wide variety of bloodlines.
Americans have been confused by this situation, and some even will brag about having a âPurebred Hanoverianâ or some other such oxymoron.
We are far too fragmented, with so many different groups competing against each other (and disseminating âdis-informationâ about each other), when they should be working together as a whole national industry. Canada is doing a very good job at forcing this issue in the creation of its Canadian Sporthorse. Can this be done in the U.S.? It remains to be seen. There are an awful lot of small political kingdoms and old-boy-clubs that would have to be disbanded first. People would have to become serious, objective breeders, and the backyard breeder would have to somehow be controlled. The inter-group fighting would have to stop, and we would all have to pool our genetic resources and start working towards a common goal.
THE AUTHOR: Suzette Bernhold of Karousel Farms, in Maple Park, Illinois, has been a Warmblood breeder for nearly 10 years. She stands two approved Trakehner stallions, Meistersinger and Kreshendo, and she is also a successful FEI level dressage competitor. For further information on breeding to these stallions, or on young prospects, she can be reached at 630-365-4423.
ohh itâs an ad! :lol:
Ad speak for himself.
As a 2 late y/o:
As a 3 y/o:
As a 4 y/o:
[IMG]http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/41024/2764575750061147915S200x200Q85.jpg)
Is he a well-suited to competitive dressage as a warmblood? In all likelihood, probably not. But just 40 days into his training heâs light, supple, and forward off my leg and his gaits are as lovely to ride as those pictures show. And weâre going to go as far as we can.
For the most part, the Europeans have been very confused by our odd insistence on the local regional connection, but have complied primarily for financial reasons. They do not consider the American groups to be a part of their local breeding program, but the American offshoots allow for a great way for them to continue to market their products. For the most part, these European breeding groups do not see the need to actually ârecognizeâ our bloodstock anyway. They send someone over who tours the country and offers advice, and in return they see it as a way to pick up some hefty consulting fees. For another fee, they have permitted an altered version of their local brand to be used here. Some will even issue a registration paper (for another fee) in a separate branch book of some sort. However, most do not consider that these bloodlines are within their breeding program, and if these horses were to be exported to Europe, they would have to be re-examined extensively before they would even be considered as allowed into the local breeding population
This is actual misleading. Several books now are joined with our European counterparts into one. BWP, GOV to name two. I assume this is a very old article.
We are far too fragmented, with so many different groups competing against each other (and disseminating âdis-informationâ about each other), when they should be working together as a whole national industry. Canada is doing a very good job at forcing this issue in the creation of its Canadian Sporthorse. Can this be done in the U.S.?
No, most are not into groups. Most breeders I know breed bloodlines that they have researched and proven to mix and produce sucessful crosses. Mostly when a stallion can be âapprovedâ through many different registires. Its not about any breed association to most, its about KNOWING your bloodlines and genetics.
So, in the 1950âs these horses started to come to America, people have a very different idea of what a âbreedâ is. When told that a horse is a Rheinlander, they donât understand that this horseâs full brother can be called a Dutch Warmblood! The brand that he received at birth is simply a designation of where he was produced. It has very little to do with specific bloodlines.
That is why serious breeders know bloodlines.
In Europe things are very different. For the past few hundred years, European breeding has been strictly controlled. There is no such thing as a âgradeâ horse. No horse was allowed to be bred without being approved by the State-appointed local breeding director. (Note: there has been a recent loosening of some restrictions along these lines.) All horses are registered with the local breeding director, and the bloodlines are carefully recorded. The local breeding director maintains a great deal of control over the kind of horse that is produced in his area by selecting and approving a certain type of breeding stock. The director also makes strong recommendations to the mare owner as to what stallion should be chosen for a certain mare. Traditionally, the State has owned and supplied the stallions to each area, selected under the recommendations of the area director. The director, therefore, wielded a great deal of power over what was done within his boundaries.
However, these various districts are actually all in one big gene pool. State owned stallions were moved from one region to another as needed, and when a mare owner moved from one area to another, his mare band would move with him. Because mares could only travel a few days to a stallion by foot), these breeding regions were thus quite small about the size of one of our counties. Thus to call something a Hanoverian or a Westfalen horse was the equivalent of calling one of ours a Lake [County] or a Grundy [County] horse. If a Grundy horse moved to Lake County, itâs offspring would become Lake horses. Each would be approved for breeding as long as it fit within the breeding goals of its new Lake County breeding director.
Because the directors had so much control over the local population and they stayed in their positions for many, many years, they could control numerous generations within the areaâs breeding stock. These various areas would take on a very definite âflavorâ as defined by one manâs vision. A âtypeâ became identified with the breeding area. However, new blood was continually infused from other regions to improve the quality of the local stock, direct its evolution along the director-chosen path, and continue to keep the small gene pool from becoming in-bred. Breeding stock has always been and continues to be traded throughout Europe. But even though you cannot say that the blood is âpureâ, all bloodlines have been carefully documented and studied.
This has to be a very old article since frozen semen is so easy to use now. So many of those comments would not apply now.
People would have to become serious, objective breeders, and the backyard breeder would have to somehow be controlled.
And this is written in an article that is supporting the AWS that will put âodd crossesâ into their registry? That is a bit ironic. The AWS is the most relaxed registry of them all and do not even REQUIRE you to take a horse to inspection to get papers!!! You just have to send in paperwork filled out with a DNA test kit. So, how is this any better on quality control of the animals in your registry, I dont really know!? So, how is this âgetting wiseâ? Giving the âfingerâ to any quality control system is not the anwser.
People got told what they did not want to hear so, just go make another registry and make up new rules that fit the needs of others⊠:lol: WHO CARES that the breed standrad, say for instance, the SWB has been in the works for centuries. Who cares, it must be stupid, right.
And⊠being she stood two very nice Trakehners, and mind you Trakeheners are a closed book with the exception to Arabian and TB blood, this is a bit odd to me too why she would write this. Trakehners are VERY strict in breed type and your lucky to get an approved stallion from inspection at all.
This whole article confuses me.
AWS requires inspections for registry except for registry by performance, which is not a breeding registry.
