Belmont thread

[Barnfairy]

@Drvmb1ggl3;3242691

Is it me or does Tagg have more than his share of problems with exercise riders not returning the works he wants?

I’ve often wondered about the trainer / rider disconnect myself. You can plan all you want from the ground regarding what you want to accomplish with a horse, but when you’re up there in the irons sometimes those plans just go out the window for any myriad of reasons.

That’s something that I admire in trainers like Larry Jones. In getting up there on the horse himself, even if just for jogs or gallops and not breezing, it allows him to truly know the animal that much more.

As for Tagg? I haven’t decided if his expectations are too high, or if the griping is just a convenient excuse.

[Jane]

Dutrow definitely isn’t the most PC person out there; I don’t think he thinks before opening his mouth. Good thing is, you know exactly what he’s thinking…although I don’t think I’d let him get away with calling me a broad like he did Michelle Nevins, Big Brown’s exercise rider.

[City_Ponies]

Well I’m on the “Hope BB Loses” train too. Here are my reasons:

1. Trainer is a $h**head, arrogant prick and I’d love for the connections of Casino Drive or Denis to give him the great big middle finger when they are in the winner’s circle at Belmont - sorry but ignorance, disrespect, and ego do not fly in my book.
2. As much as I give credit to BB as a racehorse and what he has accomplished he has a few strikes (in my eyes) against him; steriods though not the fault of the horse and “legal” doesn’t really hold up to be a ‘true athlete’ IMO if supplements are used to this extent, he hasn’t faced a very competitive full field yet, while there were some good horses in the KY Derby it’s not a good judgement – IMO the Derby is a horrible race, with a field of over 20 every year it discounts how many horses would run under normal conditions (field of 6-14) and it becomes so off pace with what all of these horses have faced previously and are going to face. Too wide, too crowded, and many horses that could be contenders end up rattled within the crowd of trying to find a spot, overcoming a wide long field at the start… etc. So for that reason, I think if Eight Belles and BB were to have run a match race at the KY Derby, the filly would have had him. As I suspect she would’ve beaten him in the Belmont - RIP.
3. As much as a TC winner would be the feel good story of the day with gas at $4 a gallon and we’re still in Iraq, I love a good upset!! I LOVE LOVE LOVE Curlin, but dontcha know I bet on Rags to Riches to win last year and didn’t put money on Curlin! I’d love to see Casino Drive win.

AND FWIW - I am NOT promoting a horse with such obvious soon to be soundness issues becoming a breeding stallion after winning the TC. Now if he were gelded sometime b/w now and the Belmont… yea I’d probably be happy about a TC winner. But ugh… I shutter thinking about what type of horses BB will produce… like we don’t have enough bad blood in the industry. Gimme a Curlin, Silver Charm, Seattle Slew, Skip Away runner anyday over ANY Storm Cat or Mr. Prospector, even if their first generation crop wasn’t wicked fast, the sport might hold up with longer and harder runners and more overall competitive racehorses.

My two cents…

[Florida_Fan]

in the sun

Do yourself a favor, buy a copy of the April Mid Atlantic Thoroughbred. There is an article in there on theraputic steroid use in racehorses, info by the AAEP and others, to educate the public who are not involved in racing (that would be you)…and among other things, to say that the powers that be (racehorse industry, not public) are trying to implement a blood threshold level uniform to all the US racetracks, as rules vary state to state, since a large number of horses do get steroids. In that article you wil note that scientific data concludes that steroids do not make a horse run faster, or improve performance. Please do not take BB connections personal. No disrespect directed to you at all.

[City_Ponies]

[QUOTE=Florida Fan;3243966]
Do yourself a favor, buy a copy of the April Mid Atlantic Thoroughbred. There is an article in there on theraputic steroid use in racehorses, info by the AAEP and others, to educate the public who are not involved in racing (that would be you)…and among other things, to say that the powers that be (racehorse industry, not public) are trying to implement a blood threshold level uniform to all the US racetracks, as rules vary state to state, since a large number of horses do get steroids. In that article you wil note that scientific data concludes that steroids do not make a horse run faster, or improve performance. Please do not take BB connections personal. No disrespect directed to you at all.[/QUOTE]

Ahh… the power of assumption. OK, first you assume that I am “public” no sorry, used to work on the track and know I’d say a large portions of the workings behind the scenes. I know about the threshold levels trying to be implemented, and I actually DO agree with them trying to standardizing among all racetracks. I think it’s GOOD! So PLEASE do not confuse me with an irrate “public”. While I am primarily a H/J rider I do follow and keep up with all aspects, especially if I have previously been in that part of the industry. I know steriods have no effect on performance, but they have a “boost” for lack of better word at the moment, for health and stamina.

I don’t take BB’s connections personal. An example of why I’m pissed off about his connections is a wonderful one. I HATE George Steinbrenner for his arrogance, ignorance, and ego. BUT I AM a huge Yankees fan. Now when he says something stupid on TV about his Uber $$$ team who must win everything I throw a plastic drink bottle at the TV, but I don’t necessarily want the Yankees to lose. It’s like a boxer proclaiming he WILL win the fight before it starts, it’s kinda just asking for an a**whopping just because statements like those shouldn’t be made, especially when you are talking about an animal who really has no control but to run, hurt or not.

I would LOVE to see BB vs. Curlin on BC day. And Curlin’s mah boy, not necessarily bc I want to put BB connections in their place, or necessarily WANT BB to lose, I just want someone else to win, in this case b/c I like Curlin more.

[CAH]

I love Big Brown. I have been a fan since the Florida Derby. I also watched Casino Drive in the Peter Pan and posted a “watch out”. Contrary to what his trainer thinks this is a two horse race to the wire…with Dennis of Cork third.

[Florida_Fan]

in the sun

Happy you have some sort of info–but I consider making a total living by training, buying selling, and totally responsible for the decisions of the performance of a horse ,for a period of years as having a totally educated opinion. I however do love your enthusiasm! Be careful with those plastic drink bottles.

[Florida_Fan]

in the sun

Think you’re right about CD. It would be ironic if he won-----I’m sure you know that he is a half sibling to the last 2 Belmont winners, Rags to Riches, and Jazil. However, I am a big BB fan!!—ever since I saw him in the Fl… Derby. It will be a horserace, for sure, the mile and a half.

[ravenclaw]

[QUOTE=City Ponies;3244029]
I would LOVE to see BB vs. Curlin on BC day.[/QUOTE]
Don’t hold your breath on that one.

#1 - It remains to be seen if BB will run again after the Belmont

#2 - It has been posted on other threads that Curlin may be headed to other races in the fall like the Arc de Triomphe and the Japan Cup. Because of questions about the dirt track where the Breeders’ Cup will be this year, Curlin might not even run in the BC.

[Glimmerglass]

Some reflections: NYRA Videos: All Belmonts 1970 - 2007; plus '30, '35, '37, '41, '42, '46, '48

Sadly their website for the 2008 Belmont Stakes just bites! The Chuchill Downs folks put out a damn fine quality website for the Oaks and Derby. All video replays of the entries, details on the horse, owner, trainer, jockey, etc. That should be the gold standard and TC Productions should on one site all of that for the Derby, Preakness, and Belmont.

[Glimmerglass]

Interesting (and a bit disappointing) that UPS, should Big Brown win the Belmont, will not do a TV spot. AdAge May 26, 2008 - “Win or Lose, UPS Sees Big Payoff at Belmont”

Print advertising is a possibility but there will be no TV spots. “Because of the time frame and budget constraints we have to deal with, it’s just not feasible,” she said.

By comparison VISA had a ‘congratulations’ ad ready to go in 1997 but it never saw the light of day:

Should ‘Silver Charm’ win Belmont Stakes this Saturday, VISA said yesterday it is prepared to run a special commercial to celebrate the first ‘Triple Crown’ victory in 19 years. This is the first time VISA will have produced a broadcast spot to instantly congratulate a winner of a sporting event.

[ravenclaw]

[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;3245563]
Interesting (and a bit disappointing) that UPS, should Big Brown win the Belmont, will not do a TV spot.[/QUOTE]
At my job, there is a part-time evening employee who works full-time at UPS (in an office) during the day. She said after Big Brown won the Kentucky Derby, they got to “celebrate” by wearing jeans to work for 1 day. Whoopeee! :lol: Maybe they’ll get to wear jeans for 2 or 3 days if he wins the Triple Crown.

[Glimmerglass]

I think UPS employees and clients have exclusive access to (special?) Big Brown photos, video, et al through the portal website in the AdAge article

So what is this the equine equivalent of a mulligan?

Wed May 28 - “Casino Drive Works – Or Does He?”

… in the end it was decided the times for the exercise regimen will not be published as an official workout.

However, in the end the times recorded by the clockers were so slow they will not be published as an official workout. The fractional times were :17, :31 1/5, :45 4/5 and 1:12 2/5 for five-eighths, with a six-furlong gallop out time of 1:25. Despite the slowness of the effort by American standards, Tada was not disappointed.

Also, the now overlooked but-once-was-interesting Peru entry did workout; still recovering from throat surgery, he previously galloped a mile and three quarters Sunday and is still being considered for the Belmont:

Tomcito worked Wednesday, going seven furlongs in 1:29 4/5

[Glimmerglass]

As expected …

Edgar Prado was officially named to ride Casino Drive in the June 7 Belmont Stakes, the colt’s connections announced Wednesday afternoon.

As quoted in the DRF

“There are so many good jockeys here that it was very difficult to decide on the right one,” said Nobutaka Tada, the racing manager for Casino Drive’s owner, Hidetoshi Yamamoto. “The reason we decided on Edgar was his experience with the Belmont Stakes.”

[Drvmb1ggl3]

@Glimmerglass;3246201

As expected …

Edgar Prado was officially named to ride Casino Drive in the June 7 Belmont Stakes, the colt’s connections announced Wednesday afternoon.

As quoted in the DRF

Smart choice. Nice to see common sense prevailed.

[Beezer]

It’s gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. If Casino Drive wins, Prado will go from the Barbaro hero to Big Brown villain in the space of heartbeats.

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=Beezer;3246428]
It’s gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. If Casino Drive wins, Prado will go from the Barbaro hero to Big Brown villain in the space of heartbeats.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I’ll bet that he, and the other connections, will come up with a graceful way to carry it off–kind of like Mary Lou Whitney did when Birdstone won.

[DMK]

@Glimmerglass;3245563

Interesting (and a bit disappointing) that UPS, should Big Brown win the Belmont, will not do a TV spot. AdAge May 26, 2008 - “Win or Lose, UPS Sees Big Payoff at Belmont”

It may have just been my interpretation of the article, but it sounded more like they weren’t doing TV media between here and the Belmont, especially with the reference to time constraints/production costs, which would be an issue with a 3 week turnaround. Not to mention Visa had an ad agency with oogles of stock/approved for use type footage around TC races what with their sponsorship and all. Their job was a wee bit easier.

[miss_critic]

If your looking for another reason to dislike BB’s connections, here is one.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aGle6KcO9IJ0&refer=home

[lassoch]

I won’t be upset per se if Big Brown wins the Triple Crown, but I won’t be as excited as I would have been in other years. Here are the thing that sort of bum me out about the situation:

1. It’s just a horrible crop of colts this year. Really, they’re just…the worst in recent memory. I want to see a great Triple Crown winner beat a field of good competitors, not a good Triple Crown winner who beats a field of mediocre snails. Big Brown was damn lucky to have been born with this crop. Horses like Curlin, Street Sense, Smarty Jones, Hard Spun, etc, could have given him a run for his money or even handed him his ass in some cases. The Triple Crown is supposed to be a test of a champion, but so far he has faced almost zero serious competition. The second choice in the betting on Preakness Day was the horse that finished 17TH in the Derby. Woop-dee-doo. Hopefully the Belmont will shake things up a bit, and I’ll like him better AFTER he gets looked in the eye by a horse who can actually run.

2. Big Brown represents everything that’s wrong with the way breeding and racing is done these days. He’s got precocious speed, yet obvious feet problems, will probably race only 5 to 7 times, and then will be sold for a huge chunk of money in order to produce tens of more fast yet fragile babies. Think about this: Whirlaway, the 1941 Triple Crown Winner, made 60 career starts. 60 starts. Big Brown won’t make more than seven, IF he races at all after the Belmont. It’s impossible to get attached to ANY horse when you know that their retirement is looming around the corner. The Triple Crown was supposed to mark the beginning of a great horse’s career, not it’s end. That’s why I like Curlin at the moment; he may or may not be better than some others out there, but he’s proved himself a great competitor, plus he’s actually racing past the age of three. Shocking. The game is all about money these days, and “Big Brown” syndrome just goes to show that breeding fast, fragile horses and then rushing them off to the breeder’s shed is a profitable game. Profitable for everyone except the horses and the fans, of course. >:/

3. The connections are trashy. Ya, ya, hate the connections, love the horse, I know. But the owners are basically involved in racing just to be able to create a hedge fund, and Dutrow is a dirty little leech. I wouldn’t even care about him that much, but he’s so smug and loud-mouthed that now I WANT him to get beat. He does things like complain loudly to the press about how other jockeys ride, then turns around and gives his own jockeys instructions to ride dirty in the next race. Can’t you just taste the class?

“When it came time to take photos in the winner’s circle following the Derby, Dutrow bucked tradition by throwing the blanket of roses at Nevin and Blum rather than lay it over Big Brown’s neck … Nevin and Blum dutifully held the flowers for a moment, then dropped the blanket on the ground to join the party, leaving the most hallowed floral arrangement in sports laying on the infield for a few hours before it was rescued by a state trooper.”

Big Brown is a magnificent animal, and a great athlete, no doubt. But I don’t want to hand him the crown when it was denied to so many - Spectacular Bid, Smarty Jones, Afleet Alex, Alysheba, Silver Charm, Real Quiet - who faced better competition than him, whose connections deserved it more, and some of whom may be much more talented than he is. But, hey, in this day and age, the big steroid-trainer and the giant hedgefund corporation are the ones with the luck and who will take home the trophy, so I might as well suck it up and watch history be made.