Ben, Jan and Amy Ebeling Named in Sexual Assault Civil Suit

[DownYonder]

@SillyHorse

This moment, right now as I write this, close to 60 years later, is the first time I have ever told anyone about it. I felt so ashamed that I never told my parents, any of my friends, or anyone at the barn. So it’s easy for me to understand that bad things can happen to us, things that we never tell our parents.

I am so glad you were able to flee the scene before things got worse! No doubt most of us here can commiserate with you, and many have probably experienced something similar - i.e., unwanted “advances” from an older male, and extreme reticence to share the information out of fear and shame.

It is really quite sad to think this stuff has been happening since the dawn of the human race - and mostly ALLOWED to happen in most societies. It is only now that women are finding the courage - and the strength in numbers - to start speaking up and “outing” their predators. Maybe the “lessons learned” by these SOBs will filter down through the rest of “maledom,” and instead of boys growing up thinking it is “okay” to force themselves sexually on someone else, they will learn to respect the SANCTITY of other people’s bodies.

And that makes me wonder - do sex ed classes in schools discuss the moral/ethical aspects of sexuality? Or do they only focus on the clinical aspects of puberty and reproduction? What age group are sex ed classes aimed at? Wouldn’t it be great if it was MANDATORY that kids took a class or even just a seminar ever year from say, age 13-14 on, that tells kids about some of these real-life heinous stories and how the incident(s) impacted the lives of the victims, and also talks about perpetrators being outed sometimes years later and the consequences they then face? Would that help reinforce the idea that unwanted sexual attention is not a joke?

[trubandloki]

@DownYonder

Wouldn’t it be great if it was MANDATORY that kids took a class or even just a seminar ever year

Again, I am older than dirt (OK, not quite that old), and when I was in school (public school) we were required to take what was called Health class several times in our schooling. By required I mean you had to pass Health all those required times to graduate. Health class included all kinds of sex education, including good/bad touching and all that.
First exposure to health class was 4th grade, then mandatory half year class in 7th grade and again in our junior year. (So not every year.)

I am sure there are places where this does not happen. I am simply stating that there are places where it at least did happen eons ago when I went to school and I assume it still does happen.

[2tempe]

You have sparked a distant memory of a Health Care class in my past. I think ours might have been around 7th grade. That was back in the days when girls took sewing class and home economics, which may have been mostly a cooking class.The boys did “Shop” which involved tools, lol. Not sure if it was run again in high school as I moved out of state end of 9th grade. Not having kids I have no earthly idea what goes on in schools, but IMO some education like the Safe Sport models should be done periodically. There are lots of sports programs and other opportunities for this stuff to happen that are not under the Safe Sport umbrella.

[enjoytheride]

I had one sex Ed class on one day, no mention of good touch bad touch, girls and boys were separated, and I am not that old.

[lazaret]

Health class doesn’t teach you what it feels like to be groomed by someone, the entire point of which is to make you (victim) feel that what they (perpetrator) are doing is normal or something you are expected to participate in willingly.

So good touch/bad touch is fine. I think most understand the concept.

But what happens when you love riding horses and your trainer tells you that you’ll get rides on better horses or Susie let’s me touch her and that’s why she gets to ride Dobbin, and if you tell your parents you’ll have to ride with the assistant trainer or nobody will believe you anyway so you might as well take your reward? Or you tell your friend and they’re so grossed out you “let” an older man touch you that you don’t tell anyone because what if word gets out and everyone thinks you’re a slut?

I’m sorry, I know everyone wants this to be simple but it’s not. The way people interact with and respond to a victim in their everyday life about topics not related matters even if someone knows “good touch bad touch.”

Also, I know that I told several people about what someone was doing to me. I didn’t tell my parents because I wasn’t talking to my parents about sex (or anything personal at all) because they were not emotionally available. I told my trainer and she said if I didn’t shut up the barn owner would kick her out and then where would my horse live? I told another barn friend and she was grossed out so that wasn’t a safe place either. I knew if I told a teacher they would have to tell someone and I’d lose horses, all my friends, and my parents would be mad at me for “causing trouble.” I would beg and plead and feign illness to get out of going to the barn. I would do extra chores at home or literally offer to lock myself in my room and study for the SATs. I wanted to be with my horse but I didn’t want to be on the farm with him.

And that’s exactly what happened, by the way. I finally told a mandatory reporter (this was late 90s, it had a different meaning then) who immediately called my parents, who were on an international trip at the time. They flew home, told me I was making a giant scene and always causing trouble and if I wanted attention could I have waited more than a day into their big trip? The doctor at the hospital offered to commit me to the psych ward for a few days (I was 16.) I got interviewed at school by a police officer. The rumor mill started.

Telling people to just tell someone doesn’t stop this. It just deflects the blame to the victim for somehow being responsible for what happened.

[ASB_Stars]

I realize that your opinion is just as important as anyone else’s, but you did say that you were out. We take our flouncing very seriously around here!

[lazaret]

I apologize, I only post when I feel I have something to add to the conversation.

I see that others such as yourself don’t exercise similar restraint.

[Synthesis]

These posts pointing to the victim, parents of the victim and their actions after tells everything about how little we’ve learned from the cases with the US Gymnastics and training personnel.

[CBoylen]

I’d like to point out that most kids riding at any kind of high level in any discipline do not go to public school, rarely physically attend any school, and will almost never attend a health class.
I rarely participate in these sort of threads because I don’t find them very productive, but there’s always this complete disconnect on so many points between people’s own experiences and the reality of being a kid in the horse industry.

[trubandloki]

@lazaret

Health class doesn’t teach you what it feels like to be groomed by someone, the entire point of which is to make you (victim) feel that what they (perpetrator) are doing is normal or something you are expected to participate in willingly.

I think this is too blanket of a statement. Some classes explain all this.
Now clearly, explaining it and living it are two different things.

@CBoylen

I’d like to point out that most kids riding at any kind of high level in any discipline do not go to public school, rarely physically attend any school, and will almost never attend a health class.
I rarely participate in these sort of threads because I don’t find them very productive, but there’s always this complete disconnect on so many points between people’s own experiences and the reality of being a kid in the horse industry.

This is a very good point. Having never been a person with the means or ability to do riding at a higher level or attend anything but public schools this is a good point I had not thought of.

[DownYonder]

@erinmeri

What was alleged to have happened is horrifying.

Agree 100%.

@erinmeri

At the end of the day, this is an alleged sexual assault, and if any of you have not been sexually assaulted, maybe take a knee.

FWIW, I speak from experience (the first time was when I was a TODDLER, for God’s sake).

[2tempe]

The problem, as noted above goes way beyond just kids in the horse industry. Perhaps an old fashioned health class is not the perfect example. Safe Sport training is required at age 18, but there are training programs available for those under 18 and certificates are provided. “Youth Resources” Trainers might be wise to require these when taking on minor clients. This would take care of the high level riders or any other sports where schooling is remote.
Obviously it doesnt cover all real life situations, and doesnt guarantee safety, but every step of improving awareness is a step in the right direction.

[DownYonder]

@ohmyheck

First of all, don’t put ‘horrified’ in quotes. It looks like you’re trying to cheapen (question?) their experience.

Can’t believe I am sticking up for CH because we have had widely differing opinions on another issue.

However - the word “horrified” is a direct quote from the lawsuit. Which is probably why CH (and others - including me) write it as a quote.

[DownYonder]

@ohmyheck

Class. I miss it in society.

I miss logic. Everyone seems to operate on emotion these days.

[CBoylen]

Sure. But how many people do you think are even doing their own safe sport training versus having the secretary or barn manager do it? I think the younger, computer savvy mostly comply where they have time. But that’s not a large percentage of the industry.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@CBoylen

Sure. But how many people do you think are even doing their own safe sport training versus having the secretary or barn manager do it? I think the younger, computer savvy mostly comply where they have time. But that’s not a large percentage of the industry.

That’s depressing. But probably an important reality check. But… really disappointing and depressing.

[trubandloki]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

That’s depressing. But probably an important reality check. But… really disappointing and depressing.

I totally agree! And once again something I had never thought of.

People really have their secretary do their safesport training for them? Oh my.

[sascha]

@happilyretired

A 14 year old girl drunk, disheveled, and distraught after being with a 17 year old boy doesn’t take much to figure out that that’s a flashing warning light. If she was 16 or 17 maybe you say “be more careful” and let her go back. But not at 14!!! As a I said in an earlier post , it appears there was poor judgement on the part of the adults all around. If the parents let her go back they should have stayed and not “dropped her off”

That is very easy to say and very easy to believe, but it’s not always that easy.

Parents can sometimes die of old age not knowing, not believing, thinking their (victim) child has lied or exaggerated their entire life.

Crappy parents don’t care. Good parents don’t want to believe their child has come to any harm. Excellent parents look past their fears to find the truth. I would wager there are far more good parents than excellent ones.

[enjoytheride]

I am still horrified at the lengths people will go to explain how someone didn’t get raped.

I can now add “you learned how to not get raped in school, thus it didn’t happen.” to my list.

[trubandloki]

@enjoytheride

I am still horrified at the lengths people will go to explain how someone didn’t get raped.

I can now add “you learned how to not get raped in school, thus it didn’t happen.” to my list.

You are clearly reading a different thread than this one, or pretending we posted things that were not really posted.

I can say (and have said) that my part of this discussion is in no way saying a rape did or did not occur. It is discussing various aspects of life, and pointing out how different things can be true (like blanket statements about this stuff not being taught in school).

Edit to add - disclaimer, I do not read certain posters so maybe you are commenting on their posts and I am missing that point, but you did not quote or tag anyone so…