haha no. my farrier is very good but he’s also a cranky dude who is tired of this industry as well. so now in thinking about it, his opinion might be skewed. 
but also not surprised if so, I have had two friends who have said the same to me that they won’t get another.
With you on this. I will spend whatever it costs on something proven to have veterinary benefit. I have no interest in whatever woo woo snake oil is most popular at the moment.
Someone posted on FB asking for recommendations for an animal communicator because the one they initially planned to use had a 7 week backup in booking appointments. How are you 7 weeks booked out of making sh!t up? I can literally make sh!t up on the spot. kindergarteners can make sh!t up on the spot. It’s like the most basic of human skills.
How are you 7 weeks booked out of making sh!t up so as to extract money from people?
LOL!
And not to derail further, but similar issues like PSSM, which could straightforwardly be tested for and bred out of any line, are not addressed by unethical breeders because the problem only comes up several years on, after baby is sold and started. Once again, the (usually) amateur owner pays the price.
On the other hand, WFFS is addressed promptly, because those foals don’t make it to sellable age, and the buck cannot be passed.
It’s not unprofessional for me to complain about horse stuff online because I am not a horse professional. It would be unprofessional for me to complain about my actual job or say anything that could identify my students. I am very careful never to do that on any social media.
As far as being anonymous, there’s enough crazy wafting through COTH that I keep myself anonymous and I also locked down my profile to make it harder for the Dressage Hub and the like to try to doxx me through random details
I think this is a good point. Benchmark’s riders are strong, skilled, brave riders used to riding straight off the track horses forward. I have a friend who does the AOs who bought one that had a few videos of it jumping 3 feet and she said the horse was not “broke” at all and she’s a very skilled rider. It’s nothing against Benchmark, it just showcases their talent for getting a green fit horse to look it’s best. I also know of a upper level eventer who purchased some horses from Ireland that were jumping 3’ 6" and he said the same thing. It’s the skill in the seller.
I also agree that with green horses, especially fit ones used to going very fast and not much else, over tempo is your friend! It’s safer, it installs the forward button.
When us average riders get these horses home, we don’t ride them forward and run head first into issues. That’s not the fault of the seller, that’s the fault of the buyer for not understanding what they bought.
Would the initials of this trainer be GN?
Well totally non-sequitur here, but as far as efficient layouts, I like the well maintained turn out round pens in her videos, with hung hay nets (all in the background of the video). Looks like horses spend a nice amount of time turned out. (I am looking for turnout designs for mud season…)
She made some nice hunters too!
No although a very talented trainer.
AB was very behind the scenes. Very talented and unfortunately no longer US based. A true loss.
I would like to know how do people maintain transparency if you aren’t being honest? When horses don’t vet you simply say why they didn’t vet and that has absolutely nothing to do with the person vetting horses. The reality is people know a horse is sale pending…then they likely know it didn’t vet…and are going to want to know why it didn’t vet. I can honestly say that 99% of the horses that don’t sell are because of something very minor that generally the next vet who reviews the xrays will okay the horse. If it has a tiny flake, minor kissing spine, hock changes, etc then I simply say that. I really don’t have the time in my day to present a horse to multiple vettings so I would rather be forthcoming. I am sorry people find that to be crass but I find it transparent. People take things personal when it’s not meant to be. What one person thinks is a big deal another might not. I often do everything I can to help people sell their vettings and recoup money when I can.
I’ll chime in here and say vetting is very personal, and perhaps relates to how risk adverse one is. I’d never buy one without vetting….because I want to know what’s there, even if it doesn’t cause problems. If I sell that one and issue comes up, I can say “Oh that… it’s been there”. I also pull blood. I have friends who never bother w vetting.
I very routinely discuss those that are difficult for whatever reason. Lots of our videos show spooking, bucking, green moments, etc because not all horses are easy. Some truly are though and when I say it I do mean it and can prove it. When I say horses are difficult for us and specify the type of program they need everyone thinks well maybe they can do better with them. Possibly and if that is the case I will cheer for you! I lay it out there as honestly as I can. I have horses come through that for whatever reason we just couldn’t get going very well. Normally I just say exactly what I think the issue is and show videos and let people make their own decisions on whether they want to try the horse.
The most common things we see are horses that are very much behind the leg. I find it much more common for horses to be extremely “stuck” coming off the track that forward. They can be nappy at the gate or by their friends and we talk about it and show how we fix it. Most don’t buck or rear if you actually ride them forward and teach them how to go over their backs.
Our horses do not lunge unless they come in here absolutely inverted or are so completely behind the leg we need to install go forward on the lunge first. Ya know because people either love or hate me I tell it like it is and that is that most people that really struggle are afraid to ride forward. The first things I teach a horse is going forward and how to find some sort of connection. Tb’s thrive when allowed to go forward and have some guidance from their rider. Most riders do not have any concept of how to connect a horse properly and that can lead to many issues. The toughest horses that we get here are the horses that were started by others post track. I rarely and I really do mean extremely rarely encounter any issues with horses coming right off the track.
I understand this very well.
So I wanted to read how people were reacting to the Shane Rose outfit and happened to check in to read about myself which probably isn’t great for your mental health 
I would love to know who most of the people are behind these comments. So easy to hide behind a keyboard isn’t it?
I would say that 85% of the horses I sell are vetted with fairly extensive vettings. When you are in the sales business you hope to be as transparent as possible. It’s interesting that what I view as being open about horses that have been vetted is interpreted as me crapping on customers. So when someone vets a horse here and I think it was a good vetting with a minor finding that 99% of other buyers will not have an issue with do I not get to say that because it might hurt feelings? I am not calling people out but I am trying to be factual and honest. Tiny changes in a joint, little spurs, slight positive flexions, chips that are outside the joint and are quiet, minor radiographic changes in the back and so many other findings are likely things most people do not balk at buying. I am NOT encouraging people to buy horses with major issues and take a big old risk. It’s just a line you have to walk when you are trying to sell horses because the reality is my horses are popular. People know they had a PPE. They know they are back on the market. I would rather just say what the findings were that waste the time of everyone involved. If a customer is willing to share/sell their xrays then I absolutely am going to help them recoup some money. Most horses are sold based off the vetting someone else did so what does that say?
Kissing spine…guys pretty soon there will be no horses that don’t have kissing spine. It’s NOT just tb’s but every darn breed. I know I get people riled up and we can all have our beliefs but I truly do believe most are asymptomatic and when horses do have behavior problems so many people are so fast to jump to OMG it’s their back. I have gotten so many of these horses and boom some change in riding and the horse is having no behavior issues. Was it the back or does it just make us feel better to say that?
I got a horse back that I sold that was going to be euthanized…yes euthanized…because it was having some sort of behavior and was said to have minor kissing spine. Horse came back and never put a foot wrong. A pro bought him with full disclosure of what I knew and did her own vetting. He’s been in the top three at every event now at training level and the sky is the limit. I can’t even begin to tell you how frustrated VETS are with the kissing spine thing. You think sellers are frustrated…try talking to vets about it. I go through at least 100+ vettings a year here. Vets from all over are simply frustrated. There is zero prediction on whether a horse will have kissing spine. Vets are saying they are seeing horses that use their backs great, move great, zero clinical signs, nice toplines, etc and they would not expect kissing spine. They xray and boom kissing spine. I hear them talking to clients and saying look a very high percentage of horses have kissing spine. Research is showing that most do not develop clinical symptoms. How much money are people spending to buy the perfect back? I have sold plenty of horses with kissing spine and I tell people what I know. I don’t hide it but I also refuse to buy into a kissing spine horse being limited. I am sorry if that offends you but there are horses at the top of all the disciplines having zero issues. Ride the horses properly and maintain them. They do just fine! Most that struggle are because they are ridden horribly.
Nobody wants to admit that maybe they are the problem but hey I am not allowed to talk about that without offending someone. I would give myself the same advice as do I give it to my riders. Before we go down the rabbit hole of saying the horse has xyz issue we try to look at ourselves first. How can we ride better, feed better, manage it better, etc. I am all for vet workups but I also am very much about getting help from other professionals to tell me if it’s just the riding that needs to change.
I could care less what height horses you all want to buy. However, I will do my best to tell you what horses will suit you. I am darn good at what I do and I love my horses. I know what an upper level horse is and what is not. I am not saying all mine are UL horses. I will stand by the fact that most people don’t buy what they should and that generally isn’t my fault. I can only do so much because in general people buy with their eyes vs buying what they should buy. Sure, I talk a LOT about what people should be focused on when shopping because I hope to offer some guidance the best that I can. I have horses that I truly think would make people so happy because we love riding them so much. However, people routinely find them too plain, not fancy enough, etc. It’s always tough to try to find ways to show those horses are awesome.
I will try to match anyone with the “right” ottb because I believe their is the right one for everyone but that takes honesty from both the buyer and seller. If you overstate your abilities when you buy a horse it won’t go well. There are plenty of horses that I think anyone could ride and I make that clear. They are easy even when they get zero direction. There are others we state need a rider with a vast skill set and consistent program. Even then sometimes the program just doesn’t fit and well that is just horses for you. It’s sometimes a frustrating sport.
I like to think that I am still in business and thriving because I do my best to be honest. If I don’t think the horse is a fit then I am going to say it. If I don’t think “I” am for you then I will just avoid doing business with you. If I think there is a bad vibe then I am just going to pass. I have been at it a long time and there is a recipe for success. Those who are looking for perfection are often just not my favorite buyers because one thing about horses is that they always throw a monkey wrench in our plans. I find it hard to meet the expectations of those who want “perfect.” I am all for everyone doing vettings and whatever it takes to make you feel at ease but the reality is that any breed of horse has imperfections. If I speak to you and get the vibe that you think Tb’s are broken I am going to pass. I LOVE Tb’s and I am passionate about the horses that I sell. I believe in them and I believe in our program. I want people who want to own and want to champion ottb’s. If my passion bothers you then it’s okay we are just not for one another. There is always another seller that will be a better fit just like there is always another buyer that is a better match.
It’s easy to sit behind a computer screen and act like you know someone. I will tell anyone my door is open. You want to see us doing first rides…please come. I can promise you my videos are only edited for length and not content. I don’t hide who we are or what my horses are even when I sometimes might want to. Not all my horses are great but I still love them. They still had owners who want them in new careers. I have to do the best I can with what I have right? My riders are real people with real feelings too. We do understand not everyone will love us but the fact is we are placing around 200tb’s a year in new homes. We provide a huge service to the industry. This business is brutal. It does make you hard. I know that I am not the same person that I probably was 15 years ago…10 yrs ago…5yrs ago. People are straight up mean and will try to drag you down in the trenches. Social media is a blessing and a curse. You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t sometimes. I just try to be real about the ups and downs. Apparently that doesn’t always sit well with everyone and I will take that input.
I just really love the horses. The people part…well that is the hard part!
I will say that back in the day I bought one that failed a previous vetting from Jess. My vet looked at the rads and OKed it. She disclosed everything she had.
That horse went on to be successful like she said he would, for years. He sadly broke a leg in the pasture this winter, but until then he was winning consistently in the hunters with his lease person. He never did have a problem with the initial finding, though he had some other problems that were unrelated.
She was also truthful and accurate about my horse not being for everyone because he had big gaits. Really big, hard to sit gaits. And he did. That isn’t something everyone would even tell you, I had no problem with them though having ridden some even bigger moving WBs.
@Jleegriffith You are the kind of seller I like dealing with. Basic, clear info and then the buyer can make the decision.
Years ago my farrier called me and told me about a 2yo tb that he knew I would want. She had bowed both fronts but was rehabbing well. I went to see her and fell in love, not only was she big and beautiful, she had the kindest eyes. The barn staff and owner all said she was the barn favorite and that the exercise riders would fight over who got to ride her. My vet took x-rays of her front legs/feet because he thought I should have a reference and he also thought I should focus on dressage rather than jumping. So I switched disciplines for her, and she was worth every moment we had together.
I’ve looked at many of her horse’s videos over the years and, repeatedly, chose not to reach out about them because I couldn’t get a good read on the horse due to the way he was being ridden. They show the horse’s movement and their capabilities in their sales videos, but I’ve never seen a video that showed temperament and rideability.
What would you recommend be included in a video?
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