Aww your DH is adorable 
I did want him to stop dragging the lead rope but what a sweet video 
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Yea the internal twitching it causes in me… LOL 
But “Lad” is a good soul. We’re currently trying to find a field board place as he needs friends and MORE space to play.
Em
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He obviously doesn’t have my ‘foresight of disaster’ gene. I probably wouldn’t trip over the lead, but I can picture myself doing so.
Eons ago at my old job they had one of those spike things you could push receipts down on (not a diner, but that’s the only other place I remember seeing one) and I had very vivid images of tripping and having go through my eyeball into my brain 
I know I’m messed up in the head, and I’m not really super clumsy, but sheesh, I always imagine the worst!
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Buyer beware.
Jessica talks a good game. I purchased Final Deception from her. I am now 7 months after purchase and KS post-op and have never even ridden my boy. Options were surgery, pasture ornament, euthanasia. Worst case my vet has ever seen, hands down. Almost killed my trainer within weeks of arriving. She was clearly not upfront with what she passed as minor and resolving issues. She passes health issues as “behavioral.” Stated my horse was “sound” in many sale ads. Feel free to look them up. Looking back, she told me her “friend” owned this horse but didn’t have time to work with him and when asked, she could not even tell me his barn name.
“He raced 3x and retired back in 2021 sound, no injuries and has no vices. He has since been a casual use pleasure horse. My friend LOVES this horse but she simply did not have the time to keep him in the program that he needs and she thought he deserved to shine.”…Your “friend”, you don’t know barn name and can’t find out?
Jessica told me her friend (previous owner) rode him without issue. Had him for over 2 years OTT. Told me his bottled up behavior seen on video was minor, nothing more. Denied more explosive behavior. Told me her “friend has a tendency to back horses off. She’s a timid rider.” She told me these “training issues” were resolved with a new bit. Such nonsense. This horse almost killed my trainer within weeks of him arriving. To clarify, he is a LOVE of a horse with a huge fan club at my barn. He was in pain. Pain Redman passed as “behavioral.”
Sales ad: “Now look I really hate saying things that might sound like I am being critical of others but I try to talk about horses the way that I see things. I think riding a horse like this is very difficult which is what I say about a lot of my very athletic super huge moving horses. This horse is simply incredible but right now he totally doesn’t believe he can go forward without getting punished. He kept popping to the canter but then wanting to go up and down and buck because he was just “stuck” and really worried he was going to get popped in the mouth or disciplined. When people tell me about horses that buck/rear/etc this is often exactly why. You can so see these things in the video but Stacy does a masterful job of just allowing in all the ways she can. I put some of that in the end of the video because honestly it is a good example of what happens when horses get bottled up and become afraid to go forward. You don’t want a horse just going up and down because at one point he ripped a huge buck and almost unseated her. He wasn’t being mean he just honestly didn’t believe we really meant forward.
You sort of have to tactfully work this out and it will take us a few rides. I also go to a softer bit (I like a nathe/duo/etc) to encourage him to take the bit/bridle and have less worry in the mouth.”
My take, this broker oversteps with her opinions. “Doesn’t believe he can go forward without getting punished” and “worried he was going to get popped in the mouth or disciplined”
…Facts = 7 dorsal spinous processes. Degenerative, sclerotic, cysts you could put a thumb though. Hello, this horse was in pain. Such a reach in her opinions.
Lesson…a horse with “behavioral” issues is ALWAYS in pain until proven otherwise. Light horses up no matter what the vet says. Never listen to a brokers take on things no matter how reputable you think they might be. I trusted the history I was provided about her friend owning and riding him for over 2 years OTT without issue. Who’s lying? Will never know. But definitely someone was. There is no way this horse was ridden for 2 years without issue.
I used an area vet she recommended, she is known to all of them because she sells a ton of horses per year. I told him I wanted to get radiographs. He told me no need for them. Told me, this horse is solid, “I would have loved to buy him for my wife.” I trusted him. Bad move. My vet found this questionable. Why would
a vet deter a client from getting XRs? Lesson, light all her horses up. Make them glow. My vet who diagnosed KS looked at the sale videos and told me straight that she would have started with the back. Hindsight 20/20.
To boot, Redman posts about KS all the time…how it’s no big deal, take a chance on a KS horse. So says the broker with the unsaleable horse. She refused to return my phone calls. I think I was pretty clear I actually wanted to speak to her. I’m still waiting on the call back.
“Hi Jessica, this is xxxxx. I purchased Final Deception from you. Please give me a call when you have a moment.”
“My reception is bad here at the farm. Can you text me?”
“I’m heading out to dinner. Is there a time tomorrow when we can talk?”
"Text me anytime! "
End game. This horse is 7 yrs, 17.3. Young and powerful. If her close friend was really riding him this severe a pathology would have been experienced under saddle, the same way my trainer experienced it within weeks of him arriving. THIS BROKER ALMOST KILLED SOMEONE WITH HER PERCEPTION OF “BEHAVIOR.” BUYER BEWARE. LIGHT THAT HORSE UP. THIS BROKERS END GAME IS QUANTITY, NOT QUALITY.
Jessica, clean your ads from your opinions. If a horse shows dangerous behavior, look into it. You almost got someone killed. Do better. Return phone calls.
“Text me anytime!”
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QFP. Have some thoughts here that I’m too tired to articulate right now… Manana.
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Here’s that horse’s videos, if anyone is interested. It will continue to play through his rides.
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I think buyer beware ALWAYS applies. I also have some thoughts but I’ll just put one out there:
I enquired about PPEing a horse in the area, and got the same spiel about lack of vets and then them not wanting to really X-ray and dig. My vets had quite a different opinion than the ones local to Benchmark - and my vets are not particularly alarmist. THAT SAID: my vets know me and have my interests in mind, and they don’t have high volume sales barns in their regular clientele AFAIK.
If I had been local enough to attend the vetting or even just ride the horse myself, I might’ve made a different decision.
Buyer beware, I think, and listen to your gut on these things. I am sorry to hear about your struggles with the horse himself, Amos, either way.
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I PPE-ed one from her and didn’t have any issue with the vets because I told them what I wanted to see. “Xray this, then call me with the results.” “Xray that, then call me with the results.” If you’re doing a PPE remotely, you have to take more of a driver’s-seat approach.
As with @fivestrideline, I’m truly sorry for your struggles, Amos. He’s really a beautiful horse.
I agree that the descriptions are quite obviously fluffed up and there’s no way one can “know” a horse after one week with them. That said, her job is to sell them so a fluffed advertisement is expected. Consider it a used car salesman - gets a car in, he has NO idea about it but writes the ad “runs great, no mechanical problems.”
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And get your own vet to review the videos/X-rays. That was the sticking point for me - what I thought counted as a red flag for my purposes was not even on their radar. Not knocking the vet! Just saying I wouldn’t trust them outright if they say “nothing to note”.
I can’t foot the bill on multiple retirees so I’m a bit more picky and my vets know that, and it’s all part of horse shopping.
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Yep, that too. I had my local vet look them over as well.
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Maybe I shouldn’t reply but I will because once again someone is questioning my ethics. He absolutely was owned by a friend who had him since coming off the track and rode him regularly with no issues. She has an injury and sold me her two horses. Former owners don’t always want to be involved and I respect their privacy.
I was so over the top transparent about this horse and where we started, what we felt, how we addressed and everything in between. He was going really well but he had worry about being bottled up in the canter. We kept him for a while until we really had consistency.
I was absolutely explicit about him in every single way. I said to you and it’s documented that this is not an ammy horse. He’s big, he’s powerful, he needs xyz and so on. You knew all of that because I was reluctant about him not going to a pro. You said you had a good program for him.
I did not know about his back. He had a bump on his knee which I had xrayed and was disclosed. It was not an issue. I did not have any reason to think he had kissing spine but a lot of them do. His top line was beautiful, used back well, lovely mover, scopey jumper, etc.
In no way does a vet dictate what xrays people want. We have people that xray the entire horse and some that just do basic. I have zero preference. We have a list of vets with the equipment necessary to xray necks and backs. It’s true that some in our area don’t have that equipment.
They can only tell you that a horse has no clinical symptoms. Pain on palpation, lumps or bumps, behavior under tack or on the lunge. I know that particular vet watches the ride videos as well. I very much recall you saying you didn’t want xrays as his basic ppe was good.
I really liked that horse and thought he was super talented.
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@Amos I am sorry to read about your horse. He is lovely. My heart goes out to you for having to deal with KS in your riding horse - I have one as well and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Could you make a separate thread so we can follow your journey with your horse?
At the end of the day buying horses off the track is a risk. They are often an unknown quantity, the seller only knows what the connections told them and nothing more. The work is hard, the horses are typically sore, and it’s not unusual to spend time peeling back the pain layers on an OTTB. TB Resellers know this and have a different idea of what sound is, but most buyers don’t.
KS has so many symptoms beyond palpitating sore over their back. I was just talking to my vet about this yesterday because she came out to do yearly mesotherapy on my KS horse. The list is so long - how their tail is held, how their neck is held, how they strike off in an upward transition, how they load a limb, their fence takeoff, how they react to being saddled, how they react to lateral work, how they canter – it’s unfortunate that all of these symptoms often overlap with general body malaise which is to be expected from a young racing TB.
Tricky horses needing a pro ride tend to be one of the symptoms of pain anywhere, not a personality trait. I see a young horse in an awkward growth phase in the loose video with overall body soreness, very weak behind with difficulty holding a canter, and not much consistency or separation in step, with the tail and neck both behaving stiff and held away from the body. Sometimes the tail and neck have so many contextual clues to pain in the horse’s spine. That trot (imo) and his frantic canter are textbook back-soreness to me. He looks better in the ridden video but I think most people could see the lid was just barely kept on the pot; a lot of bobbles behind. That video is textbook symptomatic KS to me, but not everyone has that experience.
Seven processes is a lot! I expected a different pedigree with that involvement. I’m sorry you are dealing with this, and I hope you keep us updated on your boy’s progress.
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Similar here - I had a horse PPE’d at her barn and the vet was lovely. I asked what she thought I should x-ray and I said I also want these things and it was done.
She even pulled blood prior to sedating for his xrays (he was a handful) just in case I wanted a tox screen.
It is a very different sales approach and I went into with the mindset of: these are my hard no’s, these are acceptable but not preferred, and this is what I must have. My horse from her and I are doing great almost 4 years down the road!
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That horses canter video looks exactly like my kissing spine horse. The sucking back, the 2 tracking, the tail swishing, and the awkward uneven lame looking steps every so often at the trot. I don’t understand what exactly was deceptive other then her opinion of what she see’s? Those videos don’t show a happy sound looking horse. To me that’s a pretty honest representation.
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I think the issue that Amos has is that it was presented as purely behavioral, which is a pretty accurate read on the ad. I agree that I saw a whole bunch of off steps then it would be even, then the horse would get upset and “poppy” again… to me, this is very rarely a behavioral thing and is nearly always a soundness issue, so I can kind of understand why she would be upset.
I could see a bunch of what I would have considered red flags in the jumping video, too.
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I think the TL;DR summary of the post is:
I deeply regret not having the horse’s back xrayed so I’m going to blame the seller. Not the vet, who apparently told me I didn’t need them. Not myself, for failing to do some pretty basic due diligence. It’s all the seller’s fault.
Did it occur to you to tell the vet you wanted them anyway?
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Ok if you going just off the text in the ad but come on…I didn’t even watch the entire video before I could tell it wasn’t behavioral and I’m sure you could too. The proof is live on video He is a big beautiful black horse which I guess could make it easier to look past. IDK 
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Maybe the buyer and her trainer didn’t know any better - we all learn somewhere.
The important part here is that experienced people, like the seller, often have a pretty darn good clue about what both you and I could see in the video. Yet the ad was written the way it was.
That’s where I can see someone being upset. That said, it is VERY rare that a seller has your best interests in mind, especially one who pushes that much volume. It’s horse trading, and the negative connotation goes with that for a reason.
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FWIW, the buyer admits they trusted the PPE vet and that was a mistake.
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I can totally understand why this did not happen.
The professional there, that was hands on and went to college for this stuff said that X-rays were not needed. The average buyer is going to think they are being silly for pushing it after the vet says no.
I am not saying that was the right response, and this case proves it was not the right response. But, it is a very believable and not out of the norm response for the average horse buyer, which clearly this seller depends on.
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