Benchmark Sporthorses?

[Railbird]

Was this horse ridden for the vetting? If not, was it because no one is available to do so? That is striking to me, if a riding horse is being vetted without the vet seeing it ridden, particularly if that’s policy there from a scheduling perspective. Or was the suggestion the vet can watch the sale videos supposed to be in lieu of an under saddle portion of the prepurchase?

[barnesthenoble]

@kt

I found it interesting that recently a very prominent and accomplished pro rider started documenting on social media the retraining of a OTTB she purchased.

Would you be willing to share the name of this rider?

[McGurk]

I am reminded of the old saying regarding horses: you want sound, good looking and cheap; but you can only have two out of three.

If it’s sound and good looking, it’s not cheap.
If it’s sound and cheap, it’s not good looking.
If it’s cheap and good looking, it’s not sound.

I have some sympathy for the buyer, who thought she was getting a bargain and has ended up with an expensive rehab project.

I still think that it was wildly inappropriate to put the seller on blast on social media implying that she was dishonest and unethical. Her business is sourcing well bred, athletic youngsters from the track and finding them appropriate homes, in a short amount of time.

Pretty much everyone that looked at the sale videos saw a horse that was uncomfortable behind. The seller did not: 1.) bute the horse for the video 2.) pump it full of muscle relaxants 3.) sedate the horse or 4.) nerve block the horse to get the sale videos. She also didn’t sub in a different, sounder large black OTTB for the vetting. (All things that have been done by unscrupulous sellers IME.)

The seller presented the horse as is, with her own opinion about his issues. The trainer and the vet somehow both failed to pick up on the horse’s discomfort that’s pretty readily apparent in the videos. But yet, somehow, it’s the seller’s fault?

I would love to know the sale price of the horse. I think that would be an interesting data point to add to the discussion.

[sparkygrace]

@McGurk

I am reminded of the old saying regarding horses: you want sound, good looking and cheap; but you can only have two out of three.

If it’s sound and good looking, it’s not cheap.
If it’s sound and cheap, it’s not good looking.
If it’s cheap and good looking, it’s not sound.

I have always told my husband I look for soundness, temperament, and movement. I can only afford two of the three.

[Sister7]

@Scribbler

Your description of Jessica’s riders reminds me of what people say about the video sales rides on export European WB. Forward and on the bit with a confident rider can make a horse look more put together than he really is.

As someone who is currently shopping for a horse directly off the track, I really like her videos and wish there was a reseller like her closer to me. I see her videos as an excellent “preview” of what you are buying, and I think her program adds a lot of value vs shopping off track directly.

Anyone buying from her should be knowledgeable enough to know what they are actually getting. Some of these horses last raced a week or two ago! I would expect to basically restart them from the ground up, build back and core strength, etc. But she has some really really nice horses… I was so close to messaging her about American Lad and shipping him across the country, but ultimately decided 17h was too tall for me.

[AskMyAccountant.17]

@Railbird

ted without the vet seeing it ridden, particularly if that’s policy there from a scheduling perspective. Or was the suggestion the vet can watch the sale videos supposed to be in lieu of an under saddle portion of the prepurchase?

In my experience, in a different geographic area, as a seller (of not many horses) I never speak to the vet that is doing the vetting. If anything, it’s considered (here) in poor taste to communicate to the vet as the vet is the client of the buyer not me. So, I drop off horse at the vetting and know nothing until I get a call from the potential buyer. It’s considered “good taste” or “honorable” if the potential provides some insight to what was found, but not expected.

I’ve also never done a vetting myself, or had a horse I’m selling ridden for the vet. The vet may do jogs, on a lunge, or free in a round pen but have never presented a horse under saddle for a vetting. I’ve also never known a vet to review videos of under saddle work for horses I buy or sell, even higher priced ones.

[sassy]

FWIW I follow their page on Facebook and if I recall correctly, this was not one of their less expensive horses. I believe the horses are generally in the $4k - $8k range and this one was over 10k if memory serves. So not necessarily what I’d consider a bargain for an OTTB…

[CBoylen]

@AskMyAccountant.17

I’ve also never done a vetting myself, or had a horse I’m selling ridden for the vet. The vet may do jogs, on a lunge, or free in a round pen but have never presented a horse under saddle for a vetting

Please people, ride or have someone ride the horse for the vet, if the horse is rideable. As a seller to CYA or as a buyer. There are thousands of things that show up under tack that don’t otherwise. Plus it’s written record of “horse goes as expected for impartial witness”.

[Amos]

Horse was purchased 7 months ago and is now s/p KS surgery. I have clarified my original post after seeing where things were confusing.

[TWilson]

@Amos

I opened this can of worms and although I cannot address all the responses or even read through that many, I will elucidate on a few points.

I sent multiple texts and left multiple VMs for Ms. Redman. None of my messages to her were confrontational. Very straightforward. This is X, I purchased X from you, please give me a call back. No, I was not about to write her a text outlining his diagnosis and treatment options so that she could box her response. I was suspicious at the time, but not yet set on my opinion that she knew. I wanted to have a discussion and get more information before forming an opinion. Her actions and avoidance formed it for me. She doesn’t have reception at her barn is an excuse I was given as to why she couldn’t call me back. That is her place of business where she sells 300 horses per year. Her own vet laughed at this notion.

Next, 100% my horse in the other post. I was so excited to be back riding, to own him, and in need of gear. I had my dream horse and wanted to get him stuff! Yes, I was coming off a 10+ year hiatus. Ms. Redman knew this. Everything was disclosed. There was a plan in place we both felt comfortable with. My horse would be in training with a professional dressage trainer while I got back into shape on some well-schooled horses, which I am currently doing. The anticipated timeframe was as long as it takes for him to have some good dressage basics and for me to get my sea-legs. We were in no rush. Not looking to resell or show, just to enjoy the process.

I’ll say it and say it again for the folks in the back. This is a broker that likely eyeballs over 600 horses per year on the very low side, well over 10,000 throughout her career. So many of you looked at a few videos and saw NQR. An expert that watched this horse go in person, saw the explosiveness, could not reach the same conclusion? Or maybe she didn’t want to? Obvious at this point, I feel she put her head in the sand for a dollar. You don’t have to agree.

For those of you asking, I’m not happy with the vet either. Do I believe him, unclear. I see Ms. Redman and the PPE vet attempting to discretely point fingers at each other. She states, “I know that particular vet watches the ride videos as well” (implying he missed it, not my fault). He emphatically denies ever watching sales videos. Furthers to say that Ms. Redman denied the horse exhibiting any adverse behavior when he directly asked her (she didn’t disclose and the horse looked ok for a snippet in time, not my fault). Assume he is being honest, if she had disclosed the behavior she observed, the vet would not have dissuaded XRs. BUT FOR her nondisclosure, radiographs would have been performed and this sale doesn’t happen. Regardless of her interpretation of said behavior it happened in her presence, or it didn’t. He said, she said between Ms. Redman and the vet. Whole thing smells bad.

After all of this, what’s funny is that my horse isn’t even a tricky “professional’s ride.” That in and of itself was such a misrepresentation. He has a motor, not hot. He’s big, but he’s a straightforward green horse. My trainer felt he was super go-with-the-flow until you asked him to engage the right hind, particularly at the canter. He would consistently kick out or buck, sometimes all 4-feet off the ground bronco style. No professional was going to work this out of him. A professional’s horse? Nope. A painfully dangerous one. Yes.

For those of you that hold the seller to such a low bar, let’s play this out. Would it have been ok for me to flip my horse after seeing the full extent and level of explosiveness, but before XRs? I mean, to my knowledge at the time this was just a training issue. I’d already be losing money, so no need to call the vet out and incur more of a loss. Buyer beware right? Se la vie.
No. The answer is no. A seller never gets a pass to sell a dangerous horse. I’m an amateur and when I saw the extent of the behavior in person not the IMO watered down version that was represented, I knew this horse was in pain. I knew that attempting to sell him would be immoral. I suppose this scenario would have been a viable option for some of you because…sellers will be sellers. I struggle to wrap my head around this, but you have a right to your opinion.

There is a lot to unpack here, and all of it is super emotional, so it’s hard to know where to begin. The takeaway I get from reading this is that you just do not have the level of experience or the temperament to buy a green horse from a complete stranger off the internet without any help from a professional trainer or a vet that you know personally. And I don’t mean that as an insult; very, very few amateur horse buyers, especially those who have been completely absent from the sport for ten years, should buy a horse under those circumstances and expect a successful outcome.

It’s not clear whether or not this horse had “explosive” episodes that you knew of before you bought him. You saw the videos that every potential buyer was able to see; you had the opportunity to see the horse in person and ride it before you went through with the sale (did you do that? It seems that you didn’t, but why not?) You accuse the seller of witnessing explosiveness from this horse and blame her for putting “her head in the sand for a dollar” (and yet she disclosed that this was not a horse for the average ammy), and then you disagree with her assessment and say he was not a tricky, professional’s ride, but he was very straightforward and not hot. But he would buck in ways that no professional was going to succeed with him. Which is it?

Honestly, your situation sucks for sure but had you been honest with yourself and realized that this seller is not the one for an amateur who has been out of the saddle for ten years, or if you had gotten yourself established with a trainer and a vet BEFORE you went horse shopping, you probably wouldn’t be in this situation. The fact that you have taken absolutely no responsibility for the mess you are in speaks volumes. I hope the horse recovers to the point where you can enjoy him, but I just don’t see how the seller is at fault here knowing what was disclosed to you before the sale and that you couldn’t even stand up to the vet doing the PPE and insist on getting the films that you really wanted.

[KellyS]

@McGurk

I have some sympathy for the buyer, who thought she was getting a bargain and has ended up with an expensive rehab project.

I still think that it was wildly inappropriate to put the seller on blast on social media implying that she was dishonest and unethical. Her business is sourcing well bred, athletic youngsters from the track and finding them appropriate homes, in a short amount of time.

Pretty much everyone that looked at the sale videos saw a horse that was uncomfortable behind. The seller did not: 1.) bute the horse for the video 2.) pump it full of muscle relaxants 3.) sedate the horse or 4.) nerve block the horse to get the sale videos. She also didn’t sub in a different, sounder large black OTTB for the vetting. (All things that have been done by unscrupulous sellers IME.)

The seller presented the horse as is, with her own opinion about his issues. The trainer and the vet somehow both failed to pick up on the horse’s discomfort that’s pretty readily apparent in the videos. But yet, somehow, it’s the seller’s fault?

@TWilson

There is a lot to unpack here, and all of it is super emotional, so it’s hard to know where to begin. The takeaway I get from reading this is that you just do not have the level of experience or the temperament to buy a green horse from a complete stranger off the internet without any help from a professional trainer or a vet that you know personally. And I don’t mean that as an insult; very, very few amateur horse buyers, especially those who have been completely absent from the sport for ten years, should buy a horse under those circumstances and expect a successful outcome.

It’s not clear whether or not this horse had “explosive” episodes that you knew of before you bought him. You saw the videos that every potential buyer was able to see; you had the opportunity to see the horse in person and ride it before you went through with the sale (did you do that? It seems that you didn’t, but why not?) You accuse the seller of witnessing explosiveness from this horse and blame her for putting “her head in the sand for a dollar” (and yet she disclosed that this was not a horse for the average ammy), and then you disagree with her assessment and say he was not a tricky, professional’s ride, but he was very straightforward and not hot. But he would buck in ways that no professional was going to succeed with him. Which is it?

Honestly, your situation sucks for sure but had you been honest with yourself and realized that this seller is not the one for an amateur who has been out of the saddle for ten years, or if you had gotten yourself established with a trainer and a vet BEFORE you went horse shopping, you probably wouldn’t be in this situation. The fact that you have taken absolutely no responsibility for the mess you are in speaks volumes. I hope the horse recovers to the point where you can enjoy him, but I just don’t see how the seller is at fault here knowing what was disclosed to you before the sale and that you couldn’t even stand up to the vet doing the PPE and insist on getting the films that you really wanted.

Thank you both for saying everything that’s been going through my head while reading this thread.

[McGurk]

I have consulted on a lot of horse purchased for amateurs, many of them first time horse buyers. The sequence of the PPE was usually general physical exam, watch the horse move in hand, watch the horse loose or on a lunge, watch the horse ridden, sometimes by both me and the potential buyer, doing everything the potential buyer wanted to do with the horse (If it was supposed to be a 3’ hunter, it jumped a 3’ course in front of the PPE vet. How else can a vet reasonably certify “serviceably sound for purpose intended?”) flexions and then rads. There would be a discussion as to which rads to take and why. Navicular films were pretty standard back in the day, hocks if the horse had any dressage training, anything else that had even a slight positive to flexion or was a concern watching the under saddle.

I recently consulted on the purchase of a mid-5 figure horse out of state. The BNT seller gave us the names of all the vets they had a relationship with in the area; asking us not to use those vets as it would be a conflict of interest. My client had a different local practice vet the horse, and then sent the horse’s videos, the local vet’s report and the rads to her vet to review.

I have bought horses off the track for myself or for a project with no PPE. I bought my 3 yo with no PPE because I had known her since birth and knew everything she had done.

But advising a client on a purchase? I want them to have as much information as possible to make their decision and I want them to have comprehensive vet records for an eventual resale.

[Jealoushe]

I’m a bit shocked after watching the video that they even rode this horse. It’s not sound, not even close. Not good horsemanship. Period.

[fivestrideline]

Or at least that they listed it for sale.

The horse did get better over time, but in my opinion still not good enough by MY standards to list for sale as anything but a rehab case. Again, straight off the track with no let down? I’d have fewer reservations. But this horse had been OT for over a year.

Hindsight is 20/20 and people are definitely allowed to list things for sale at whatever prices they like. It just doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies as a buyer, and so I’ll shop elsewhere

[Jealoushe]

I don’t have issues with selling a lame horse if you are honest and say, hey this horse is not sound. Here’s what we know….

But this is a bit bothersome. I’m sad for the OP who had many people around her fail her.

[beowulf]

I thought it was interesting to go back to the original ads to see what the seller said about this horse. I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt regarding her judgment of soundness. Bold is mine.

Final Deception- 17.3 h 6yr gelding sired by Finale (Scat Daddy) out of a Desert God mare. He raced 3x and retired back in 2021 sound, no injuries and has no vices. He has since been a casual use pleasure horse. My friend LOVES this horse but she simply did not have the time to keep him in the program that he needs and she thought he deserved to shine.

She was very very adamant that while everyone loves a big gorgeous TB he is very athletic and was not the horse that she felt most people needed to own. I really appreciate that people think of me for a horse like him and after getting to meet him I do understand every single thing she said.

This horse is honestly just EXCEPTIONAL. I mean I am not one to do the whole TB vs WB thing because look we know that I just love my Tb’s. However, **this horse may be one of the best moving Tb’s I have encountered ** and I know we haven’t even scratched the surface yet. He is out of shape. Needed his feet done. Has been shipped all over the place and the list goes on. If he goes like this right now I just can’t even imagine what he will be.

In the free area he was just lovely but he was more interest in showing off that amazing canter. He has been excellent for shipping, cross ties, baths, the farrier and all the barn stuff. He is huge but he is very mannerly thankfully. He stood quietly to be tacked and mounted. He was a wee bit excited when she got on but with reason.

Now look I really hate saying things that might sound like I am being critical of others but I try to talk about horses the way that I see things. I think riding a horse like this is very difficult which is what I say about a lot of my very athletic super huge moving horses. This horse is simply incredible but right now he totally doesn’t believe he can go forward without getting punished. He kept popping to the canter but then wanting to go up and down and buck because he was just “stuck” and really worried he was going to get popped in the mouth or disciplined. When people tell me about horses that buck/rear/etc this is often exactly why. You can so see these things in the video but Stacy does a masterful job of just allowing in all the ways she can. I put some of that in the end of the video because honestly it is a good example of what happens when horses get bottled up and become afraid to go forward. You don’t want a horse just going up and down because at one point he ripped a huge buck and almost unseated her. He wasn’t being mean he just honestly didn’t believe we really meant forward.

You sort of have to tactfully work this out and it will take us a few rides. I also go to a softer bit (I like a nathe/duo/etc) to encourage him to take the bit/bridle and have less worry in the mouth.

At the end we finally got him to go forward in the canter and holy smokes it was just incredible. There is so much power and holy hind leg on this horse. He is so uphill and I love his length of neck. His suspension and push for an unfit horse is remarkable.

I think he honestly will jump a big fence because despite his size he is so light. However, we will be working on the flat until he feels confident in going forward again.

He isn’t available at the moment because we want some time to really get him where he should be and that means not allowing others to sit on him.

His videos are really a must watch:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLt-dzmhstvn02TCIMzOUQFETiKzd5nIu6

Final Deception- 17.3 h (yes truly sticked) 6yr gelding sired by Finale (Scat Daddy) out of a Desert God mare https://www.pedigreequery.com/final+deception He raced 3x and retired back in 2021 sound, no injuries and has no vices. He has since been a casual use pleasure horse. My friend LOVES this horse but she simply did not have the time to keep him in the program that he needs and she thought he deserved to shine.
Watch this- https://youtu.be/ho_WwZowN9g
I posted about this one last week and honestly we took time off for the holiday and didn’t have time to do anything with him since his first ride. I talked about how on his first ride we found what we commonly see in horses that are big, powerful and very very athletic that haven’t quite gotten exactly the right ride. He was quite “worried” about being allowed to go forward in that he didn’t trust he could and that was resulting in some behavior. Nothing bad but at 17.3 it can be super tricky to sort out. A first ride here is just our evaluation to see what we have and where we want to go. I said that I thought he was a horse that would benefit from a softer bit and we did that today (Love the herm sprenger duo or similar bits that encourage them to take a bit of a hold of the bit). I want them to feel like they won’t get punished for going forward. It’s just about showing them it’s allowed.
What I hope people can see in the two videos is everything I love about at TB. We didn’t change anything but the bit but he took that first ride and he thought about it. He came into ride two with a ton more trust and understanding. Stacy said she knew right away that he was on the same page as her. He had one tiny little stuck moment in the canter but you can see she said it’s okay to just go forward and he dug right into that concept. Honestly these horses just are so willing to trust so quickly. It’s everything I love about them shown in the difference between two rides.
This horse is EXCEPTIONAL. If you haven’t seen his video you should check it out. I hate doing the whole WB VS TB thing because a good TB is a good TB. This is a TB that moves well enough to compete with any of the Wb’s in my opinion but he is a very giant elastic powerful moving type that enjoys a rider that will bring out the best in him. He is sensitive without being dangerous or hot. He goes forward if asked properly but likely will continue to need someone who says hey buddy it’s cool to just be you and not hamper his athletic ability.
He is uphill with a hind leg that just makes me drool. He isn’t even in shape and he goes like this so my gosh with some fitness and muscle he is going to be unbelievable. I could go on and on about this horse because he truly is just that talented.
I have really been amazed at how amazing his manners are for a horse of his size. He is super respectful and really behaves because it would be easy not to as the weather has been changing.
We are still getting to know him. We haven’t jumped him because well today was ride 2 and my ring is extremely wet from the ton of rain we have gotten. I think it would be hard to believe he won’t jump as well as he moves. I really can’t wait to see him jump but I know all the dressage people have been messaging me like crazy about him. If you love TB’s but love dressage it is hard not to want him in your barn.
He is super kind and very snuggly. He has been great for shipping, farrier, grooming, baths and all the things in between. He is sound. No injuries. No vices. Great in turnout and in the barn.

It’s possible both sides can be wrong, for different things. Rereading everything both parties have wrote I’m left with the impression that neither have an informed eye for lameness/pain signals, and misconstrued frantic, energetic bodily tension as uphill and talented movement. They are not the only ones who do this.

The silver lining is, this horse could have ended up in a really bad situation. How lucky he is to have landed with someone willing to pursue surgery to help him feel his best.

[Marigold]

@Sticky_Situation

I don’t think anyone is saying the seller isn’t responsible for anything or doesn’t have a duty to try to present the horse accurately, including disclosing soundness problems if known.

It’s just that the buyer also has responsibilities:

• Be honest about your riding abilities and look for something that’s within the scope of what you can handle. If you’re coming off a hiatus and haven’t ridden a horse in 10 years, a hot TB with some known issues under saddle is probably not where you should be looking, regardless of the cause of the issues.
• If you are buying a horse with the intent to have a trainer bring that horse along for you including doing most of the initial riding, it’s best to have the trainer weigh in on the horse as well
• Don’t let flashy front end action, a big trot, and a pretty neck outweigh basic soundness

If you’re a buyer who has neglected your own basic responsibilities, you’re likely to get less sympathy when you come out swinging at the seller claiming they neglected theirs.

The vet … that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms. If he truly did tell the buyer that back X-rays were definitely not needed and refuse to do them after she asked for them, and claim the horse was so sound he wished his wife would buy him … that’s crazy unprofessional. I can certainly imagine him saying something like, “back X-rays will be another $xxx and I usually don’t do them, are you sure you want to?” and that wouldn’t be overly damning. But if there was no exaggeration and it actually happened as the buyer is claiming, the vet is the one that should be having his name plastered across the internets because he certainly didn’t hold up his end of the deal to provide an impartial assessment of the horse.

@Sticky_Situation

If you’re one of the maybe 1% of riders who can take 10 years off from riding, have a kid or two, then come back and hop on a hot, very green OTTB without missing a beat, then by all means have at it. But for the overwhelming majority of re-riders, it’s better advised to at least find one that’s either quiet or well broke, if not both.

Why is it purely the seller’s responsibility to rule out any medical problems if the buyer likes the way the horse is currently going and wants to buy it as is, despite seeing the squirrely-ness in the canter and tendency toward bucking after jumps that were clearly visible in the videos? I guess part of my issue with this is, if you decide to buy a horse that is going like that in its sales videos (which presumably aren’t showing him on his worst ride ever, or on a windy day coming off a month of stall rest), you don’t really have reason to be shocked when explosive behavior shows up, regardless of the underlying cause and whether it’s “purely behavioral” or not.

@McGurk

I am reminded of the old saying regarding horses: you want sound, good looking and cheap; but you can only have two out of three.

If it’s sound and good looking, it’s not cheap.
If it’s sound and cheap, it’s not good looking.
If it’s cheap and good looking, it’s not sound.

I have some sympathy for the buyer, who thought she was getting a bargain and has ended up with an expensive rehab project.

I still think that it was wildly inappropriate to put the seller on blast on social media implying that she was dishonest and unethical. Her business is sourcing well bred, athletic youngsters from the track and finding them appropriate homes, in a short amount of time.

Pretty much everyone that looked at the sale videos saw a horse that was uncomfortable behind. The seller did not: 1.) bute the horse for the video 2.) pump it full of muscle relaxants 3.) sedate the horse or 4.) nerve block the horse to get the sale videos. She also didn’t sub in a different, sounder large black OTTB for the vetting. (All things that have been done by unscrupulous sellers IME.)

The seller presented the horse as is, with her own opinion about his issues. The trainer and the vet somehow both failed to pick up on the horse’s discomfort that’s pretty readily apparent in the videos. But yet, somehow, it’s the seller’s fault?

I would love to know the sale price of the horse. I think that would be an interesting data point to add to the discussion.

@TWilson

There is a lot to unpack here, and all of it is super emotional, so it’s hard to know where to begin. The takeaway I get from reading this is that you just do not have the level of experience or the temperament to buy a green horse from a complete stranger off the internet without any help from a professional trainer or a vet that you know personally. And I don’t mean that as an insult; very, very few amateur horse buyers, especially those who have been completely absent from the sport for ten years, should buy a horse under those circumstances and expect a successful outcome.

It’s not clear whether or not this horse had “explosive” episodes that you knew of before you bought him. You saw the videos that every potential buyer was able to see; you had the opportunity to see the horse in person and ride it before you went through with the sale (did you do that? It seems that you didn’t, but why not?) You accuse the seller of witnessing explosiveness from this horse and blame her for putting “her head in the sand for a dollar” (and yet she disclosed that this was not a horse for the average ammy), and then you disagree with her assessment and say he was not a tricky, professional’s ride, but he was very straightforward and not hot. But he would buck in ways that no professional was going to succeed with him. Which is it?

Honestly, your situation sucks for sure but had you been honest with yourself and realized that this seller is not the one for an amateur who has been out of the saddle for ten years, or if you had gotten yourself established with a trainer and a vet BEFORE you went horse shopping, you probably wouldn’t be in this situation. The fact that you have taken absolutely no responsibility for the mess you are in speaks volumes. I hope the horse recovers to the point where you can enjoy him, but I just don’t see how the seller is at fault here knowing what was disclosed to you before the sale and that you couldn’t even stand up to the vet doing the PPE and insist on getting the films that you really wanted.

@KellyS has already quoted a couple of these, but let me just be another voice echoing these posters and thanking them for their contributions. I don’t have much to add, but these are thoughtful posts that I agree with completely.

[bingbingbing]

It seems like people are criticizing the buyer for not seeing the horse was not sound/NQR in the videos, but not the seller. Yes, buyer beware. But
Best of luck with your horse, I hope he recovers well from the surgery. He is lucky to have ended up with you. I know this is not the journey you expected but it is helpful to others that you posted your story.
Did you see he has a younger full brother? It would be interesting to know how he is doing.

https://www.pedigreequery.com/battlefieldmarshal

[GraceLikeRain]

@bingbingbing

It seems like people are criticizing the buyer for not seeing the horse was not sound/NQR in the videos, but not the seller.

I do agree that seems to be an interesting development. Transparently, I don’t have as good of an eye as many on here and the videos don’t scream lame. They scream spicy, unhappy, and weak. If a reasonable buyer should watch these and be able to discern that the horse is lame, why is there no onus on the seller to do the same. Especially when the seller is high volume and has likely witnessed thousands of PPEs, giving them a really unique insight into the relationship between going and clinical findings more so than nearly any other seller on the market.

[McGurk]

The seller absolutely did see it. She thought it was behavioral. It was discussed at length in the ad.

Criticizing the seller would be legit if she edited out the funky parts of the videos, or didn’t post the first couple of ones at all.

Since the horse’s movement improved with work and pro rides, it also bolstered the seller’s belief that it was behavioral, so she posted all the videos to show the progression/improvement.

In addition, the seller is on record as saying that she believes KS is overdiagnosed, and that there’s a low correlation to bad neck/back rads and actual unsoundness from KS. (Not dissimilar to navicular xrays back in the day. Eventually it was decided that a single set of navicular rads, in the absence of lameness, was not predictive; that only a series of xrays taken over time would be. I wonder if we’re going to get to a place like that with KS?)

To stretch an analogy, this whole story sounds like someone bought something at Target, but expected Neiman Marcus’s customer service and return policy.