I can’t speak for everyone but I think people are criticizing the buyer not so much for her inability to see the unsoundness, but for publicly calling out the seller on social media and saying she’s dishonest and/or incompetent and has no morals or ethics because she was unable to see that the horse wasn’t sound, when the buyer herself could not see it until the trainer pointed it out and the behavior escalated to become dangerous.
It’s the double standard that’s the issue, not the buyer’s inability to recognize the horse was uncomfortable in the videos.
What? Where is the buyer looking to return the horse at all.
She wanted a conversation. Not a text message. Just a conversation. That shouldn’t be that hard.
But since Jessica has taken horses back that were placed in homes that were not a good fit, this particular one seems exactly perfect for that sort of offer, especially since she’s been so vocal that “kissing spines” is a training issue, rather than a medical one. If she so clearly made an error in placing this horse, take him back and find him a more appropriate home.
What was the buyer hoping to get out of the conversation? Why did it have to be a conversation, not a text or an email?
Would she have been happy if the seller just said “Thanks for the information; appreciate you letting me know.” and then terminated the call?
I think not.
The only reason to insist on a conversation and then be incensed that you didn’t get to have one is that you were looking for some sort of concession or offer from the seller.
You’re making just a whopping amount of assumptions. There’s a real life example up thread where a buyer did just want to inform, and the seller appreciated the information.
But regardless, nothing Jessica has done in this situation reflects ANY of this:
You tell me how the buyer here was suitable for this “needs a pro ride” complicated horse. The buyer who was apparently fully up front about her ten years out of the saddle and lack of trainer guidance on the sale. Jessica’s lack of insight regarding lameness vs a behavior issue isn’t even the the biggest issue…how on earth does she bill the horse as needing something so particular and then send him this direction.
And then the entire thing about avoiding actually speaking with the buyer is just unprofessional, and juvenile. You know what? Sometimes in business you have uncomfortable conversations.
Jessica is trying to play both sides of the fence: she’s a dealer. Straight up, it’s about the sale. No shade, if she wants to actually represent herself that way. But she doesn’t. She’s says she wants to find the right home and it’s not all about the sale and she takes them back if it’s a bad fit…which isn’t reflected here in the least little bit, and that lack is pretty glaring.
Look. I think both buyer and seller carry blame here. But in addition to what Simkie just pointed out in her last reply to you, did you miss the part where Amos explained she did send Jessica multiple (unanswered) text messages?
My read, between the lines, of this story is a clueless ammy who has been out of touch with the business, buys a horse from a horse dealer (there’s no questions about that; that’s what Benchmark is) without good professional advice and without doing basic due diligence and the blames the seller for her mistakes and missteps.
I’m guessing your read is malfeasance on part of the seller, maybe taking advantage of the clueless buyer? Or just that the seller is guilty of trying to make money flipping horses?
Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle?
But reading this thread, I wonder how anyone ever makes a living selling horses. Or why they would even want to try.
Tacking on a response to you in this. My guess (and it’s absolutely a guess, I’m reasoning ahead of my data here) is that the seller recognized that absolutely no good could come of having a conversation with this buyer, ~7 months after the sale. So if you’re saying it was rude or unprofessional for the seller to duck the buyer’s calls, yeah, okay, maybe that’s the case. And I wonder (I don’t know, I’m speculating) how much the buyer blew up the seller’s phone before the horse was finally diagnosed. In the seller’s shoes I might have done the same thing.
I don’t know Jessica personally, but I do know folks that have worked with her and have been happy. They are pros.
I don’t want to discourage the “Jessicas” in this sport. We still need folks to source the good ones from the track. In my day (1000 years ago ) they were our trainers.
I’d still like an option for those of us who would like a horse for sport but want something sub-“mid fives” and work closely with a trainer that can do ottbs. That is becoming more and more scarce. And crazy teenagers on Facebook that stumble upon a tb and “teach it to jump” by racing it at a 2`9 raised pole on sketchy wobbly standards in the backyard isn’t what I’m looking for. I’d rather not “fix” that horrible training.
While some sellers generously take back.horses shortly after sale, and some breeders provide a soft landing for every horse they created, I think that most sellers would not feel responsibility after 7 months, because there’s a lot of time for horse to have deteriorated in their new home
The buyer told the seller at the time of the sale that she had a pro with a good program, when in fact she did not. I really don’t think a horse that needs to be in a professional program can really be considered “something so particular”? It’s pretty normal for any young horses, OTT or not. But the buyer said that the horse actually turned out to be simple and uncomplicated, except when he was bucking off the trainer in a way that no trainer could handle.
Where are some of you buying horses that the sellers are holding your hands and counseling you through every part of the process? That’s what you pay your trainer a commission for (and this buyer didn’t have one). I really haven’t seen any evidence that the seller in this case misled the buyer, but we do know that the buyer misled the seller.
You understand that Jessica doesn’t represent herself as a dealer, right?
She gives all this lip service to finding the right fit and taking horses back and refusing buyers she doesn’t think are suitable and it’s not all about the sale. Where is that here. How did she ensure this particular horse got what she felt he needed.
Seriously, explain it to me.
Especially given that the buyer was apparently up front with her time off and not having a trainer involved in the sale, and that Jessica never even bothered to discuss with the trainer who was lined up for the horse. Does every single person who takes money to ride horses provide exactly the sort of ride Jessica felt this horse required?
I should preface this with I appreciate your insights into this thread, you always have such level-headed takes. I agree with most of what you wrote but came back to this - I’m surprised to disagree with you today.
I am not sure that the seller did see it. I agree she wrote off the bucks (which she spoke about) as behavioral - but what she should have said was “he has pain behaviors”.
She thought that the canter demonstrated in the free video was an (going to quote her original ads in quotes now) “amazing canter”. That entire video he is cross cantering, often on the wrong lead, and his hind ends move in pairs with no separation.
She thought that the big, tense, upright neck was uphill.
She thought that his canter had “so much power and holy hind leg” action under saddle.
She said he had suspension and push.
She called his riding video “giant, elastic powerful moving type”.
The videos don’t show that horse. I don’t think the seller was lying, I think she genuinely believed all she wrote. But there’s room to do better.
She sources horses off the track. And (hopefully) rehomes them before much time is put into them. I guess I’d consider her to be a “filter” for horses off the track – and there is – I believe – a real need for that. I pretty much paid 2k for someone with an “eye” to haul my horse 40 miles up the road so I could ride him and vet him.
Again, the buyer lied about having a trainer. She admitted on this thread that she did not have a trainer at the time of the sale.
I don’t think she has claimed a lot of this. She has a 9-5 job and I think she’s made it clear that she is not in the business of babysitting buyers. I get the impression that she sells a lot of horses without ever meeting the buyer in person. She clearly wants her buyers to be happy with their purchases, and it’s also clear that most of her buyers are. She ensured that this particular horse got what she felt he needed by believing the buyer’s story that she had a trainer with a good program. Are sellers now supposed to verify everything potential buyers tell them before they allow a sale to proceed?
Yes, and she felt this horse would be best in a good program with a professional. The buyer told her she was working with a professional with a good program, when in fact, she was not at the time that she stated it to the seller.
Yes, she said those things, and I believe they are true. If this buyer had been honest and told her she didn’t have a trainer at the time, the horse would not have been sold to her. I don’t think that just because Jessica will help rehome horses and has bought horses back, that means she provides a 100% money back guarantee to anyone who buys a horse from her.
No amateur who has not been on a horse in ten years should be shopping alone over the internet for an OTTB and lying to the seller to get the horse because she knows the seller won’t sell it to her if she tells the truth.
Yes, I agree with you that placing this horse billed as a “pro ride” with someone who’d been off for a decade was egregious. Jessica had that information.
While Jessica may not refer to herself as a “horse dealer,” probably because that term has a longstanding negative connotation, I doubt that she would deny that she’s someone who resells horses for money.
Regarding finding suitable buyers and not just the first person who shows up with a check, it’s a spectrum. You can make an effort to try to find buyers that are a good fit for your horses, and tell the overly ambitious beginner that the gorgeous 3-year-old who was just gelded a week ago probably isn’t the one for them and tell the person looking for an upper level event horse that the lovely chestnut they’re eyeing hates both water and jumping and would probably make a better dressage prospect, but if you’re someone whose livelihood depends on selling a large number of horses fairly soon after you buy them, it may not be as easy to wait for The Perfect Forever Home™️ to come along as it is when you’re someone selling a single beloved family horse because the kid is going off to college.
According to Jessica’s post above, she admitted to having some reservations about selling the horse to an amateur but was reassured by the buyer that she had an experienced trainer and the horse would be in a program, etc. It doesn’t seem she was aware that the buyer had never actually worked with the trainer before (possibly didn’t even have a trainer picked out yet?), and it’s unclear if she knew the buyer was someone who’d not been riding the past 10 years.
I suppose she could’ve asked for the trainer’s number, called the trainer and asked her to send credentials and video of her riding a quirky green thoroughbred, and used that to try to guess whether the trainer was a suitable rider for the horse. But at the end of the day, unless someone comes and tries the horse out in person, there’s always a decent possibility it won’t turn out to be a good fit (and even if they do try the horse, that doesn’t mean it will work out well every time!)
That doesn’t mean the seller is dishonest or unethical, or needs to be called out on social media.
) they were our trainers.