Or at least that they listed it for sale.
The horse did get better over time, but in my opinion still not good enough by MY standards to list for sale as anything but a rehab case. Again, straight off the track with no let down? I’d have fewer reservations. But this horse had been OT for over a year.
Hindsight is 20/20 and people are definitely allowed to list things for sale at whatever prices they like. It just doesn’t give me the warm and fuzzies as a buyer, and so I’ll shop elsewhere 
I don’t have issues with selling a lame horse if you are honest and say, hey this horse is not sound. Here’s what we know….
But this is a bit bothersome. I’m sad for the OP who had many people around her fail her.
I thought it was interesting to go back to the original ads to see what the seller said about this horse. I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt regarding her judgment of soundness. Bold is mine.
Final Deception- 17.3 h 6yr gelding sired by Finale (Scat Daddy) out of a Desert God mare. He raced 3x and retired back in 2021 sound, no injuries and has no vices. He has since been a casual use pleasure horse. My friend LOVES this horse but she simply did not have the time to keep him in the program that he needs and she thought he deserved to shine.
She was very very adamant that while everyone loves a big gorgeous TB he is very athletic and was not the horse that she felt most people needed to own. I really appreciate that people think of me for a horse like him and after getting to meet him I do understand every single thing she said.
This horse is honestly just EXCEPTIONAL. I mean I am not one to do the whole TB vs WB thing because look we know that I just love my Tb’s. However, **this horse may be one of the best moving Tb’s I have encountered ** and I know we haven’t even scratched the surface yet. He is out of shape. Needed his feet done. Has been shipped all over the place and the list goes on. If he goes like this right now I just can’t even imagine what he will be.
In the free area he was just lovely but he was more interest in showing off that amazing canter. He has been excellent for shipping, cross ties, baths, the farrier and all the barn stuff. He is huge but he is very mannerly thankfully. He stood quietly to be tacked and mounted. He was a wee bit excited when she got on but with reason.
Now look I really hate saying things that might sound like I am being critical of others but I try to talk about horses the way that I see things. I think riding a horse like this is very difficult which is what I say about a lot of my very athletic super huge moving horses. This horse is simply incredible but right now he totally doesn’t believe he can go forward without getting punished. He kept popping to the canter but then wanting to go up and down and buck because he was just “stuck” and really worried he was going to get popped in the mouth or disciplined. When people tell me about horses that buck/rear/etc this is often exactly why. You can so see these things in the video but Stacy does a masterful job of just allowing in all the ways she can. I put some of that in the end of the video because honestly it is a good example of what happens when horses get bottled up and become afraid to go forward. You don’t want a horse just going up and down because at one point he ripped a huge buck and almost unseated her. He wasn’t being mean he just honestly didn’t believe we really meant forward.
You sort of have to tactfully work this out and it will take us a few rides. I also go to a softer bit (I like a nathe/duo/etc) to encourage him to take the bit/bridle and have less worry in the mouth.
At the end we finally got him to go forward in the canter and holy smokes it was just incredible. There is so much power and holy hind leg on this horse. He is so uphill and I love his length of neck. His suspension and push for an unfit horse is remarkable.
I think he honestly will jump a big fence because despite his size he is so light. However, we will be working on the flat until he feels confident in going forward again.
He isn’t available at the moment because we want some time to really get him where he should be and that means not allowing others to sit on him.
His videos are really a must watch:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLt-dzmhstvn02TCIMzOUQFETiKzd5nIu6
Final Deception- 17.3 h (yes truly sticked) 6yr gelding sired by Finale (Scat Daddy) out of a Desert God mare https://www.pedigreequery.com/final+deception He raced 3x and retired back in 2021 sound, no injuries and has no vices. He has since been a casual use pleasure horse. My friend LOVES this horse but she simply did not have the time to keep him in the program that he needs and she thought he deserved to shine.
Watch this- https://youtu.be/ho_WwZowN9g
I posted about this one last week and honestly we took time off for the holiday and didn’t have time to do anything with him since his first ride. I talked about how on his first ride we found what we commonly see in horses that are big, powerful and very very athletic that haven’t quite gotten exactly the right ride. He was quite “worried” about being allowed to go forward in that he didn’t trust he could and that was resulting in some behavior. Nothing bad but at 17.3 it can be super tricky to sort out. A first ride here is just our evaluation to see what we have and where we want to go. I said that I thought he was a horse that would benefit from a softer bit and we did that today (Love the herm sprenger duo or similar bits that encourage them to take a bit of a hold of the bit). I want them to feel like they won’t get punished for going forward. It’s just about showing them it’s allowed.
What I hope people can see in the two videos is everything I love about at TB. We didn’t change anything but the bit but he took that first ride and he thought about it. He came into ride two with a ton more trust and understanding. Stacy said she knew right away that he was on the same page as her. He had one tiny little stuck moment in the canter but you can see she said it’s okay to just go forward and he dug right into that concept. Honestly these horses just are so willing to trust so quickly. It’s everything I love about them shown in the difference between two rides.
This horse is EXCEPTIONAL. If you haven’t seen his video you should check it out. I hate doing the whole WB VS TB thing because a good TB is a good TB. This is a TB that moves well enough to compete with any of the Wb’s in my opinion but he is a very giant elastic powerful moving type that enjoys a rider that will bring out the best in him. He is sensitive without being dangerous or hot. He goes forward if asked properly but likely will continue to need someone who says hey buddy it’s cool to just be you and not hamper his athletic ability.
He is uphill with a hind leg that just makes me drool. He isn’t even in shape and he goes like this so my gosh with some fitness and muscle he is going to be unbelievable. I could go on and on about this horse because he truly is just that talented.
I have really been amazed at how amazing his manners are for a horse of his size. He is super respectful and really behaves because it would be easy not to as the weather has been changing.
We are still getting to know him. We haven’t jumped him because well today was ride 2 and my ring is extremely wet from the ton of rain we have gotten. I think it would be hard to believe he won’t jump as well as he moves. I really can’t wait to see him jump but I know all the dressage people have been messaging me like crazy about him. If you love TB’s but love dressage it is hard not to want him in your barn.
He is super kind and very snuggly. He has been great for shipping, farrier, grooming, baths and all the things in between. He is sound. No injuries. No vices. Great in turnout and in the barn.
It’s possible both sides can be wrong, for different things. Rereading everything both parties have wrote I’m left with the impression that neither have an informed eye for lameness/pain signals, and misconstrued frantic, energetic bodily tension as uphill and talented movement. They are not the only ones who do this.
The silver lining is, this horse could have ended up in a really bad situation. How lucky he is to have landed with someone willing to pursue surgery to help him feel his best.
@KellyS has already quoted a couple of these, but let me just be another voice echoing these posters and thanking them for their contributions. I don’t have much to add, but these are thoughtful posts that I agree with completely.
It seems like people are criticizing the buyer for not seeing the horse was not sound/NQR in the videos, but not the seller. Yes, buyer beware. But 
Best of luck with your horse, I hope he recovers well from the surgery. He is lucky to have ended up with you. I know this is not the journey you expected but it is helpful to others that you posted your story.
Did you see he has a younger full brother? It would be interesting to know how he is doing.
I do agree that seems to be an interesting development. Transparently, I don’t have as good of an eye as many on here and the videos don’t scream lame. They scream spicy, unhappy, and weak. If a reasonable buyer should watch these and be able to discern that the horse is lame, why is there no onus on the seller to do the same. Especially when the seller is high volume and has likely witnessed thousands of PPEs, giving them a really unique insight into the relationship between going and clinical findings more so than nearly any other seller on the market.
The seller absolutely did see it. She thought it was behavioral. It was discussed at length in the ad.
Criticizing the seller would be legit if she edited out the funky parts of the videos, or didn’t post the first couple of ones at all.
Since the horse’s movement improved with work and pro rides, it also bolstered the seller’s belief that it was behavioral, so she posted all the videos to show the progression/improvement.
In addition, the seller is on record as saying that she believes KS is overdiagnosed, and that there’s a low correlation to bad neck/back rads and actual unsoundness from KS. (Not dissimilar to navicular xrays back in the day. Eventually it was decided that a single set of navicular rads, in the absence of lameness, was not predictive; that only a series of xrays taken over time would be. I wonder if we’re going to get to a place like that with KS?)
To stretch an analogy, this whole story sounds like someone bought something at Target, but expected Neiman Marcus’s customer service and return policy.
I can’t speak for everyone but I think people are criticizing the buyer not so much for her inability to see the unsoundness, but for publicly calling out the seller on social media and saying she’s dishonest and/or incompetent and has no morals or ethics because she was unable to see that the horse wasn’t sound, when the buyer herself could not see it until the trainer pointed it out and the behavior escalated to become dangerous.
It’s the double standard that’s the issue, not the buyer’s inability to recognize the horse was uncomfortable in the videos.
What? Where is the buyer looking to return the horse at all.
She wanted a conversation. Not a text message. Just a conversation. That shouldn’t be that hard.
But since Jessica has taken horses back that were placed in homes that were not a good fit, this particular one seems exactly perfect for that sort of offer, especially since she’s been so vocal that “kissing spines” is a training issue, rather than a medical one. If she so clearly made an error in placing this horse, take him back and find him a more appropriate home.
Perfect analogy!
What was the buyer hoping to get out of the conversation? Why did it have to be a conversation, not a text or an email?
Would she have been happy if the seller just said “Thanks for the information; appreciate you letting me know.” and then terminated the call?
I think not.
The only reason to insist on a conversation and then be incensed that you didn’t get to have one is that you were looking for some sort of concession or offer from the seller.
You’re making just a whopping amount of assumptions. There’s a real life example up thread where a buyer did just want to inform, and the seller appreciated the information.
But regardless, nothing Jessica has done in this situation reflects ANY of this:
You tell me how the buyer here was suitable for this “needs a pro ride” complicated horse. The buyer who was apparently fully up front about her ten years out of the saddle and lack of trainer guidance on the sale. Jessica’s lack of insight regarding lameness vs a behavior issue isn’t even the the biggest issue…how on earth does she bill the horse as needing something so particular and then send him this direction.
And then the entire thing about avoiding actually speaking with the buyer is just unprofessional, and juvenile. You know what? Sometimes in business you have uncomfortable conversations.
Jessica is trying to play both sides of the fence: she’s a dealer. Straight up, it’s about the sale. No shade, if she wants to actually represent herself that way. But she doesn’t. She’s says she wants to find the right home and it’s not all about the sale and she takes them back if it’s a bad fit…which isn’t reflected here in the least little bit, and that lack is pretty glaring.
Look. I think both buyer and seller carry blame here. But in addition to what Simkie just pointed out in her last reply to you, did you miss the part where Amos explained she did send Jessica multiple (unanswered) text messages?
I think we should respectfully agree to disagree.
My read, between the lines, of this story is a clueless ammy who has been out of touch with the business, buys a horse from a horse dealer (there’s no questions about that; that’s what Benchmark is) without good professional advice and without doing basic due diligence and the blames the seller for her mistakes and missteps.
I’m guessing your read is malfeasance on part of the seller, maybe taking advantage of the clueless buyer? Or just that the seller is guilty of trying to make money flipping horses?
Maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle?
But reading this thread, I wonder how anyone ever makes a living selling horses. Or why they would even want to try.
@kt,
Tacking on a response to you in this. My guess (and it’s absolutely a guess, I’m reasoning ahead of my data here) is that the seller recognized that absolutely no good could come of having a conversation with this buyer, ~7 months after the sale. So if you’re saying it was rude or unprofessional for the seller to duck the buyer’s calls, yeah, okay, maybe that’s the case. And I wonder (I don’t know, I’m speculating) how much the buyer blew up the seller’s phone before the horse was finally diagnosed. In the seller’s shoes I might have done the same thing.
I don’t know Jessica personally, but I do know folks that have worked with her and have been happy. They are pros.
I don’t want to discourage the “Jessicas” in this sport. We still need folks to source the good ones from the track. In my day (1000 years ago 
) they were our trainers.
I’d still like an option for those of us who would like a horse for sport but want something sub-“mid fives” and work closely with a trainer that can do ottbs. That is becoming more and more scarce. And crazy teenagers on Facebook that stumble upon a tb and “teach it to jump” by racing it at a 2`9 raised pole on sketchy wobbly standards in the backyard isn’t what I’m looking for. I’d rather not “fix” that horrible training.
While some sellers generously take back.horses shortly after sale, and some breeders provide a soft landing for every horse they created, I think that most sellers would not feel responsibility after 7 months, because there’s a lot of time for horse to have deteriorated in their new home
The buyer told the seller at the time of the sale that she had a pro with a good program, when in fact she did not. I really don’t think a horse that needs to be in a professional program can really be considered “something so particular”? It’s pretty normal for any young horses, OTT or not. But the buyer said that the horse actually turned out to be simple and uncomplicated, except when he was bucking off the trainer in a way that no trainer could handle.
Where are some of you buying horses that the sellers are holding your hands and counseling you through every part of the process? That’s what you pay your trainer a commission for (and this buyer didn’t have one). I really haven’t seen any evidence that the seller in this case misled the buyer, but we do know that the buyer misled the seller.
I agree with all of this.
You understand that Jessica doesn’t represent herself as a dealer, right?
She gives all this lip service to finding the right fit and taking horses back and refusing buyers she doesn’t think are suitable and it’s not all about the sale. Where is that here. How did she ensure this particular horse got what she felt he needed.
Seriously, explain it to me.
Especially given that the buyer was apparently up front with her time off and not having a trainer involved in the sale, and that Jessica never even bothered to discuss with the trainer who was lined up for the horse. Does every single person who takes money to ride horses provide exactly the sort of ride Jessica felt this horse required?
I should preface this with I appreciate your insights into this thread, you always have such level-headed takes. I agree with most of what you wrote but came back to this - I’m surprised to disagree with you today.
I am not sure that the seller did see it. I agree she wrote off the bucks (which she spoke about) as behavioral - but what she should have said was “he has pain behaviors”.
She thought that the canter demonstrated in the free video was an (going to quote her original ads in quotes now) “amazing canter”. That entire video he is cross cantering, often on the wrong lead, and his hind ends move in pairs with no separation.
She thought that the big, tense, upright neck was uphill.
She thought that his canter had “so much power and holy hind leg” action under saddle.
She said he had suspension and push.
She called his riding video “giant, elastic powerful moving type”.
The videos don’t show that horse. I don’t think the seller was lying, I think she genuinely believed all she wrote. But there’s room to do better.
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