I am a vet in the area and before retirement, I did some vetting at Benchmark. Jess is usually not present at the vettings, but has filled out a sellers statement for us. There is no discussion about other horses, or who bought what, or other vettings. The buyer (hopefully) is present, or if they aren’t, we call to discuss findings after the clinical exam and then determine how to go from there. Some people X-ray everything, some people nothing. Some vettings are expensive, some are minimal. If you want it all xrayed, no problem. If you don’t, that is your decision. We make recommendations based on what we see, but if a buyer wants more, I don’t think anyone will argue against it…
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I’ve read this entire thread but stayed quiet until now when I read Amos saying she won’t let anyone else sit on the horse besides herself. Herself, who has been on hiatus for 10 years. This makes no sense. Send him to someone who has experience rehabbing horses. For your sake and his.
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And now we’re splitting hairs about whether “spoken with” = “existing professional relationship” 
where clearly Jess should have known from an email that the horse was not a match for an amateur who did claim to have been a confident rider at some point who said she would work with a trainer. To my understanding, said amateur DID work with the same trainer.
So sorry again to Amos that the horse did not work out as expected. This is all terribly disappointing. But I can’t put all the blame on Jess or pretend that this wouldn’t have happened if you had purchased a horse from another seller.
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Amos is riding with this trainer right now so no longer can be described as someone who has not ridden recently.
I read that paragraph as Amos saying that she does not want to risk anyone getting hurt, so no one is getting on the horse, a horse that is currently doing rehab ground work.
Amos did say, except me, and then went on to say that they are not sure they will be brave enough to get on either.
I personally appreciate the fact that Amos has stepped up and admitted they made a whole bunch of mistakes here.
The seller, not so much.
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All fair points! I am not commenting on the overall situation - who has stepped up, who is right, who is wrong. I am only commenting on the mindset that the owner is the only person who should assume the risk and responsibility of sitting on this horse.
Just to have the direct quote from Amos included:
I can’t let anyone else get on him. The woman currently training me has offered, assuming his rehab and ground work goes accordingly. But, I couldn’t live with it if he hurt someone else. If anyone gets on him, it will be me. Will I ever feel comfortable, tough question.
For the sake of safety and stacking the odds for the best potential outcome, I genuinely believe enlisting the help of a professional who specializes in bringing rehabbed horses back into work is the logical choice (if the decision to bring the horse back into US work is made) vs. an amateur who has been back in the saddle for less than a year after a 10-year hiatus.
Amos may be a great rider, but it’s probably fair and accurate to say that her skillset is not equivalent to the professional I described above. I truly empathize with the fear of someone else getting hurt. It’s the reason I chose to retire one of mine. I wish Amos and her horse the best of luck.
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I thought I read somewhere that Amos’ experienced professional got hurt by this horse. Am I thinking of a different situation?
That may explain Amos’ take.
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@Amos I agree with the above. I know of a trainer who specializes in rehabbing horses with serious problems such as bucking/rearing/etc. Trust me, she knows how to handle a horse like yours and would not get on your horse until she felt comfortable doing so. Personally, I’ve seen her handle a pretty athletic buck and not be fazed by it at all (I would have popped off from that buck in a heartbeat). Not all trainers can do this, but those who can, are a good resource for your situation. Please consider finding someone like this when you get to that point.
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I have found that to be very interesting as well. I am assuming it is because the seller is concerned about litigation and fears that admitting anything could be her fault to used against her. At the very least the seller should learn that ignoring a buyer isnt going to turn out well.
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Nope, that’s exactly what she said happened. You’re remembering correctly.
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Yes, he hurt Amos’ trainer.
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Yes he hurt Amos’s trainer, however it was 7 months after the sale. We all know that a horse in somone else’s hands after 7 months is different to the horse that was sold.
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I read the chronology as he hurt Amos’ trainer soon after arriving, before the surgery/rehab.
Now, post-surgery, entering rehab, nobody has been on him yet, including Amos.
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No, it was ‘within weeks of arriving.’
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But seemingly after the trainer had noted a tendency to buck on the right lead that she had felt was concerning for unsoundness. It seems that they were nonetheless trying to work through it, based on what the seller had said about thinking it was behavioral, and that’s the reason the seller is being blamed?
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I think the horse owner here is less blaming and more informing the rest of the us to beware that this horse trader does not necessarily do all those things they boast about doing (wanting to do what is best for the horse, etc) and that their unwillingness to learn about Kissing Spine caused them to not realize this horse was in pain, so everyone else out there, be aware of this, so you too do not end up how they ended up.
Be aware that if you want X-rays, demand the X-rays no matter what the vet says.
Do not trust that the seller knows what they are talking about, or in some cases (not saying it is the case here) are willing to simply be dishonest.
Personally, I do not get why the seller did not respond when this buyer reached out. I bet things would have gone very differently if the seller responded and this buyer and the seller could have talked about the horse and everything to do with the surgery. Where the buyer felt like the seller was not hiding from something they did.
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However, once a horse leaves the seller’s farm, a lot of variables change that may significantly aggravate pain…
This horse shipped from Delaware to, I think, Texas. This alone, even in a box stall, can cause a lot of body soreness, and we don’t know the length of time, route, or configuration for shipping.
Then there are the variables of stall and turnout at the new barn. Did stall size change? How about type and depth of bedding? What type of turnout and how much compared to previously?
Was the horse transitioned from his previous concentrate? Did he begin eating a different concentrate and how does it differ (eg, NSCs) compared to his previous feed? How much? What type of hay?
These are just a few examples of the many, many changes that may have affected how this horse felt mentally and physically after arrival at his new home and subsequently, his behavior under saddle. Without seeing him in person prior to purchase, neither Amos not her trainer can say whether or not his behavior at his new home was previously present to the same degree.
I’m not criticizing buying sight unseen, but it comes with a lot of risks that you have to be prepared for and accept (speaking from experience). I feel the buyer went into this without taking any of the risks into account and feels the seller is responsible for not producing the horse as imagined by the buyer.
We also don’t know the extent of communication or how it was actually handled. It’s easy to say the seller should have responded, but we don’t know the circumstances, what had been previously communicated, or any further details. At this point (when a buyer is blaming the seller for someone’s injuries), few, if any, sellers would want to further engage without having communication in writing.
Anyway, I feel the buyer has handled this purchase poorly in many ways, and I haven’t seen any actual evidence that this seller is unethical or lacks integrity, which is what the buyer said and keeps trying to prove here.
That just really rubs me the wrong way. The lessons learned here apply to any horse purchase with any seller.
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If this was Reddit, this would get an “everyone sucks here” vote from me. Disappointing from the seller, the vet, and the buyer for the mistakes made in every angle for this horse.
Hope he is on the road to recovery and thank you for realizing this was a pain response!
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Agree. But also what I wouldn’t give for a downvote button!
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If I read right, the seller did respond - just via text rather than a phone call. Why is it okay for the buyer to require a specific mode of communication (phone) but not okay for the seller (text)?
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These are the main conclusions I have from all of this, as well. I don’t have a bad view of the seller after all of this, I just would take into account that she might not pick up on certain things that are more likely pain-related, rather than just behavior.
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