Benchmark Sporthorses?

[endlessclimb]

I thought I saw a single side rein on the inside, but it wasn’t very clear. Regardless, seeing someone LEAN BACK with their entire body weight into those lines makes me feel quite bad for the horse. Ouch.

[wanderlust]

@Simkie

Once again, none of the rider’s history was hidden from the seller.

And the seller appears to have made zero effort to discuss this horse and his needs with the pro lined up for him, despite an offer from the buyer to facilitate that conversation.

Here’s the thing about this. I used to buy and sell a lot of TBs, and I had two different brokers I worked with. They did a high volume of horses, and if I got one and it wasn’t working out for what we had intended/what the seller thought it would be good at, or had a physical issue that looked like “trackiness” but didn’t resolve, etc, they TOOK THE HORSE BACK and would trade me for something else.

Yes mistakes were made here, but the buyer here relied on Benchmark’s assurances that it was a behavioral issue, she used one of the vets Benchmark provided info for, who told her not to get back x rays, etc. Regardless of how the trainer rode it when it showed up, those are literally the worst back x rays I’ve ever seen. Hands down. That horse was never going to be suitable for dressage/eventing. Ever.

The conversation upon viewing those x rays and the trainer getting launched/injured should literally have been “send him back. I have this not-as-fancy but really nice amateur-brained horse I will send you instead.” And none of this public brouhaha would have happened.

[Simkie]

@fivestrideline

Once again, the seller offered TEXT conversation repeatedly. The buyer didn’t go for it (as far as we know). And, the buyer presented themselves as a re-rider working with a trainer and presented their program as appropriate. Exactly what receipts are you saying Jess should have required?

Wtf are you talking about? At no point has it ever been discussed that the seller offered to text with the trainer prior to the sale of this horse.

As I’ve said before: a horse that a seller bills as a “pro ride” with “behavioral issues” that needs something very, very specific to succeed probably should not be offered on the open market AT ALL but instead offered to a select few professionals that the seller KNOWS can provide the sort of ride she deems necessary for the horse.

Barring that, it would have been far more likely to find the right fit for this horse if the horse had been offered for sale only to those who could come try him in person, with their trainer, so the seller could assess with her very own eyeballs if the buyer and trainer were capable of providing what she thought necessary for him.

Selling a horse labeled the way this horse was via a sight unseen sale without discussing his needs with the pro that the seller said was necessary (so necessary she didn’t bother to discuss the horse with her ) is literally the least likely way to have him succeed.

And, tada, that’s reflected here in how this trainer is working him. What a surprise.

[fivestrideline]

@wanderlust

It looks like the long line on the outside runs from the bit to the surcingle, and on the inside runs from the surcingle through the bit to the trainer’s hands. There are no side reins.

Ah. Okay, I see that now. However, that’s still a LOT of weight/contact on the double lines (the horse is extremely broken over the neck and curled almost the entire video). I know it was purportedly to show the issues the horse was having, but it does seem remarkably unfair to sit that hard on the lines as the horse does BTV rather than to… stop lunging?

I’ll give the trainer a bit more benefit of the doubt seeing at those aren’t side reins, but I’m still getting the feeling this is not the person to restart this horse if it comes to that.

[Simkie]

@wanderlust

The conversation upon viewing those x rays and the trainer getting launched/injured should literally have been “send him back. I have this not-as-fancy but really nice amateur-brained horse I will send you instead.” And none of this public brouhaha would have happened.

I totally agree. The seller was unwilling to have a conversation with the buyer, so here we are.

[enjoytheride]

Where are you getting that the buyer wanted to send the horse back?

The idea that a seller has to talk to a trainer to make sure the ammy owner is telling the truth is a lot to expect.

[Simkie]

@enjoytheride

Where are you getting that the buyer wanted to send the horse back?

Where are you getting that I’ve said the buyer wanted to send the horse back.

[good_booie]

OMG! horrible! Is this the trainer doing this or Amos? wowwowwow. No beuno

[fivestrideline]

@Simkie

Wtf are you talking about? At no point has it ever been discussed that the seller offered to text with the trainer prior to the sale of this horse.

??? The seller offered to text with the buyer after she reached out post purchase. THAT is what I’m talking about.

At no point has any theoretical conversation with any trainer been brought up outside of an abstract “seller should have talked to the trainer” by other posters here. But we also do not know the extent of the pre-purchase conversations they had.

@Simkie

Barring that, it would have been far more likely to find the right fit for this horse if the horse had been offered for sale only to those who could come try him in person, with their trainer, so the seller could assess with her very own eyeballs if the buyer and trainer were capable of providing what she thought necessary for him.

Selling a horse labeled the way this horse was via a sight unseen sale without discussing his needs with the pro that the seller said was necessary (so necessary she didn’t bother to discuss the horse with her ) is literally the least likely way to have him succeed.

This, I agree with wholeheartedly, though!

To be clear, I don’t think this is 100% the buyer’s fault. What I take issue with is the declaration that the seller should’ve somehow vetted the story the buyer gave her, insisted upon speaking to the trainer the buyer claimed to have (again, people can talk the talk and not actually be able to do the job), etc etc.

Taking the horse back would have been classy, but we don’t know if the buyer even WANTS to do that.

[2bayboys]

I was having sympathy for the buyer until the video got posted. I literally said ohmygod out loud when I scrolled down and saw the screenshots from the video.

[enjoytheride]

Agreed. There’s fault here on both sides. I don’t think any of it is deliberate.

I think requiring a seller (especially a high volume seller) to take the time to do back ground checks on buyers, speak to trainers, etc is unrealistic and can really get a buyer in trouble. Especially in this price range/training. I am sure some sellers do and i have no isses with them making sure a horse is the right fit, but I would not expect it.

[Amy3996]

@enjoytheride

The idea that a seller has to talk to a trainer to make sure the ammy owner is telling the truth is a lot to expect.

As you describe it, I’d agree. The idea that a seller would want to independently confer with a trainer for a horse she described as having very specific needs and behavioral issues is hardly so far-fetched.

The case may be that this horse should not have been sold to an amateur without a trainer present to evaluate. That was Jess’s judgement call to make and is neither here nor there at this point.

[endlessclimb]

So the inside is hooked up like a draw, and the outside is hooked up normally.

And then the trainer is leaning back into the lines.

ouch, ouch, ouch.

[BrownDerby]

I have no dog in this fight but IMHO the lunging pics are far worse and more disturbing than anything on the sales videos. I still maintain that the horse is an absolute saint.

[anonevent]

Holy Hell. That poor, gorgeous, kid. You made poor choices about who to trust, and you’re left holding the responsibility of making the best of it. It’s a cautionary tale of what can go wrong when everything goes wrong.

I would have a hard time restraining myself from comment if anyone tried to sell me that back, missed that back on vetting, or lunged a horse of mine like that. It is valid for you to be pissed at everyone involved, at yourself, and at the circumstances in general. It sucks.

You can deep dive into KS rehab (if you haven’t already) and find people who are experienced with it who will, hopefully, treat your horse more fairly. Just research the F out of them. Make a thread on the forum looking for KS rehab/training. Ask which questions to ask them. Ask how to know if they’re trustworthy. Ask for step by step advice about choosing such a trainer. Call good trainers and ask them who they would send their *horse to. Narrow down that list -then ask for reviews here. Have your vet speak to trainers.

Find the best person and give them this horse for as long as you can afford it. Have your vet involved all throughout training. Be a hands on owner and record the sessions. Stop trusting people.

[Simkie]

@fivestrideline

At no point has any theoretical conversation with any trainer been brought up outside of an abstract “seller should have talked to the trainer” by other posters here.

Yes, actually, it has.

@Amos

From the exact email I sent Ms Redman:
“Thanks for getting back to me. In my younger days, I’d feel confident in my abilities to take this on myself. At this point I would enlist the help of a trainer. I’ve spoken with XXXXX, a dressage trainer in my area, and she does have availability for training board. She would also be up for speaking with you to ease any reservations you might have. I’ve also been in touch with an eventing barn in my area, XXXX, to assist in starting him over fences.”

You seem to be holding the position that a seller has no responsibility in making an attempt to ensure the horse winds up in a place where he can be successful. A horse that’s difficult needs, imo, a bit more care in placement.

This is a very sad situation all the way around. Amos has admitted missteps. Jessica certainly has not, even though her actions in this sale contradict what she herself has said about her approach to placing horses.

[SpicyPRE]

When you are selling a big, dark, fancy gelding who is going to come out of the woodwork? Inexperienced buyers because they will be blinded by the big and dark and totally miss the lameness. On paper this is every inexperienced purchaser/riders dream horse. And, this is where I feel like Benchmark should have done better by this gelding.

[kt]

@good_booie

OMG! horrible! Is this the trainer doing this or Amos? wowwowwow. No beuno

Unsure. But if I had to guess, I would guess most likely the trainer.

[trubandloki]

@SpicyPRE

And, this is where I feel like Benchmark should have done better by this gelding.

I agree with this.

Even more so since that is the party line with this seller, that they will not just sell a horse, they want to make sure both the horse and the buyer are good fit and all that stuff this seller says about their business model.

[fivestrideline]

I think we are talking past each other here and going in circles due to that.

That’s okay, as at the end of the day I think we CAN agree that the horse is clearly struggling and that he’s going to take some serious managing.