I think the left line goes thru a ring on the surcingle (a lower ring).
I am shocked that so many people here find using two lines to be cruel and horrible.
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It’s not two lines. It’s the multiple times she’s leans her whole body weight back onto them I have issue with.
I double lunge with somewhat regularity.
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I don’t think they do. However, it requires good timing and a horse in front of the aids so that you can operate an outside rein and not overly lean on the inside. If a horse is so out of control that you have to skate on the outside line to keep control and then hang on the inside with a horse that is completely curling up, then it isn’t beneficial to anyone. I think it would have been way more beneficial to pop this horse in a round pen on a single line to show the gaits or use a line of jumps to break a larger arena in half to create a visually smaller place to lunge.
My mare, with great back rads, would like fold on a double line due to inexperience. If the environment wasn’t set up to reinforce forward and instead controlling a runaway shoulder was the focus, she could end up in a similar stuck place. Her response would have not left the lunger still standing either by spinning and bolting out or by taking a hind end aim at a grounds person. That is a very very good horse being asked an unfair request.
A lot of good tools can be harmful in the wrong environment or with the wrong timing. I don’t think double lunging a painful horse in a big arena to show that it is a big horse in pain who feels stuck accomplished anything. If this wasn’t the first time he was put on a double line I would question why a trainer set him up for failure a second time if this was truly just to document a state of the situation.
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That is why we have airplanes. A lot of times, people go the OTTB route to save money or because they can’t afford more. But a <$10,000 horse is still going to be expensive if you do your due diligence of a full vetting, seeing the horse in person, and having your trainer evaluate the horse, hopefully in person.
None of the above is required, but this situation is an example of what happens when you don’t spend the money up front. Many times you end up spending more and you may not have a rideable horse at the end.
None of the above is the seller’s fault either. And no one here knows the conversations between buyer and seller prior to purchase other than what’s been shared, which is very little. Some buyers can talk a really good game and convince you they are the right home, and it is easy, no matter what experience you have, to believe them.
We all want what’s best for our horses, and I don’t believe at all that Benchmark would have placed this horse in anything other than what they believed was a good home.
I’m speaking as someone who thought they placed a horse in a good home and the horse ultimately had the be euthanized. I was excoriated on social media by a bunch of people who knew nothing about the situation firsthand.
I’ve also bought horses sight unseen, but with very low expectations, appropriate professional support, and I never take the seller, no matter who they are, at their word. It’s my job, as the buyer, to determine if the horse is suitable and that is on me, no one else. It’s called personal responsibility and accountability.
ETA: I do a lot of long lining to prepare horses for dressage and driving. The video is a great example of how NOT to do it. It’s a skill set beyond basic lunging, and you can create a lot of pain and tension if you don’t understand that the contact is different than when you’re riding. I would NEVER long line a horse with any evidence of pain or lameness, and no one here should be supporting its use this way.
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Agreed, I am only saying I don’t think she’s “trying” for that, but she’s getting that because he’s in too big a space, under educated, and hurting.
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I 100% agree with your post. I long line (double lunge) my horse and can get super nice work, but he and I are experienced. I suspect that the horse was put in this situation to make a point. And it isnt kind to the horse. And I suspect that the trainer did not expect that the video would be put out on COTH. But here we are.
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I also long line/double lunge because it’s really helpful to have control of the outside shoulder. However, as I posted above, I don’t set up the inside line the way it’s shown here because I don’t think it provides enough relief/release. Part of the benefit of long lining is that you can be soft with your hands and replicate under saddle work.
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Buyers and sellers are on opposite sides of transactions. Sellers (and sellers’ agents) should never be relied upon to protect buyers’ interests. It’s not their role in the transaction. Sellers should represent horses honestly and to the best of their ability. Benchmark/Jessica appears to have believed that this horse’s issues were behavioral, and she does not think that it is important to take back X-rays of horses as part of PPE exams more generally. IMO, she held up her end of the bargain by providing plenty of videos, documenting and acknowledging the horse’s resistant behavior, and allowing any PPE the buyer wanted.
Buyers, not sellers, are responsible for determining if the horse they purchase is a good fit for their needs. They should do this by hiring a professional to represent them if they are not qualified to judge on their own, and by obtaining a PPE. If Amos chose not to involve her trainer in the process of selecting a suitable horse (which is very different than offering to connect the seller to her trainer to verify that the horse would be in training after the purchase), that is on her. If the vet actively discouraged back X-rays when Amos asked about them or after being shown video of the horse’s behavior by the buyer, that’s on the vet!
If Benchmark/Jessica were Amos’s trainer or acting as her purchasing agent, then I would say she had done wrong by Amos. But she wasn’t. So long as she presented the information she had about the horse accurately, responded to pre-purchase inquiries transparently, and did not interfere with the vetting process, she did what is expected of sellers, especially of high-volume dealers. Sellers are not obligated to turn away buyers who are naive and, conditional on the above, are not obligated to engage with unsatisfied customers after the sale in the manner of the customer’s choosing. Castigating people on social media for making a living selling horses – especially when they have a pretty transparent business model, though one that is certainly not for everyone – ultimately makes horses more expensive and makes it harder for OTTBs to find second careers.
I don’t think the take-away lessons here are about dealing with Benchmark/Jessica. I think they are about how buyers, especially those without substantial recent experience in the industry, should go about reentering the sport and buying a horse. Find a trainer first. Get back in riding shape in order to determine what sort of horse will be a good fit for your current capabilities and goals, and to develop a relationship and trust in the trainer. And then work with the trainer you trust to choose and vet a suitable horse.
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Agree that it is not a side rein; that being said if my horses had their head in that position there would be a tremendous amount of slack in the rein and not taut. The horse while moving looked like there was no option; the reins (for lack of a better word) did not appear to give slack or appear that there was relief for moving the neck down and forward.
This is not a technique I have ever used lunging a horse, so yes, I am a bit ignorant. My reins are always lower, longer w/ the goal of the horse lengthening down and out to stretch over the back. I lunge my KS horses in this manner, w/ a belly band to lengthen and strengthen the core, I wouldn’t use the technique demonstrated above for a newly restarted OTTB or a young horse and never on one of my KS horses.
Just an interesting point (no I don’t have the reference) but a equine vet friend of mine mentioned she read a new paper on KS in TBs, including in the pool young horses who have not been saddled or ridden. There was NO statistical difference in the occurrence in the entire population based on work load. In a nut shell, unstarted horses may have KS. I read somewhere that 60% of horses Xray w/ KS. They may or may not be showing symptoms.
edited to add: if the horse can’t be reliably controlled (slowed) in this rig w/out cranking and either allowing or putting the horse into this frame - then I would think/expect a trainer would go to a simpler system and teach whoa and go first…
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I really like double lungeing. But I don’t introduce it until until I have a horse that very competently understands how to lunge with side reins and go comfortably and softly forward and downward. And I introduce it in a roundpen or an area I’ve made smaller in an arena with poles or panels or what have you. And I don’t ever use it when I suspect a horse is up, or sore, or what have you because that’s setting the horse and I up to fail.
Competent double lungeing is a great tool. The video does not appear to show any competency on the part of the handler.
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I agree with the majority of this paragraph.
I still think this horse trader bears some of the fault here. If she did not advertise herself as the person wanting to do right by the horses and the riders, I would feel differently.
We, all of us horse people, are not helping the horse industry by writing off everything a seller ever does as - the buyer should be more careful, not trust the seller.
Though I agree with all of the buyer beware things in life, because the only person looking out for you is ever going to be you, no matter how much you think you can trust that other person. I still think it is not OK to just say - Oh no, Jessica did no wrong at all, she can insist up and down all over the internet that she is different and she only wants to put horses with the right people, that does not mean she has to do that, she is a seller, so it is OK for her just sell whatever to whomever.
Again, the buyer was wrong to trust Jessica, I agree.
But we (horse people) need to step up our game and stop letting people not do what they say they do, and leave newbies holding the bag because they did not know better until they got screwed over once.
Horse people should look out for each other. Not pummel those who dared to trust.
And now everyone is hating on this person’s trainer. So how does one who is new know who to trust?
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Two thoughts from my very adult amateur self:
- I have immersed myself and my OTTBs in dressage for several years. One used to event, hated it and now solely competes USDF. The other two come along for a LOT of dressage lessons.
I know this is a generalization and I’ll get hate for it, but it’s my experience and I’ve come to acknowledge the rumors are true. Dressage pros by and large do not like TBs and DO NOT know how to effectively ride and train them. I have begun to shift my attention toward eventers with a dressage specialty as they tend to be the only trainers I can find that approach my horses with empathy rather than severe and authoritarian methods. You just can’t crank a TB down like you “can” a WB.
The images of Amos’ dressage trainer working with a green OTTB acutely remind me of why I generally avoid dressage professionals now.
- I love OTTBS, in fact TBs are the only breed of horse I’ve ever owned in my life. However, I am tired of professionals talking down to amateurs that x-rays and PPE findings don’t matter. They absolutely matter to someone who only has one or two horses to ride. Findings on a horse that is currently competing in the intended job is one thing - findings on a green OTTB with 5 rides under it’s belt are completely another. I will always pass on a young un-proven horse that has significant findings no matter how many pros attempt to belittle amateurs and tell them they don’t ride the xrays.
Statistically speaking, for every one horse that can somehow make it to ULs with KS or a chip or whatever weird findings, I’d bet there are hundreds of horses who go on to present with lameness problems directly related to ignored PPE findings. The Pros that are trying to school everyone about “riding the horse not the xrays” don’t have to keep the horse once it goes lame.
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I don’t understand why the trainer didn’t even bother to look at the videos of the horse before Amos finalized the purchase (and Amos did say at one point that the trainer did not see the videos). I just can’t imagine any trainer agreeing to take on a horse for training from someone who is currently in the process of buying a specific horse and NOT asking to see the videos, or why Amos didn’t send the video links to the trainer even without being asked. It just makes no sense. So we either are not getting the truth or this trainer is REALLY questionable when it comes to knwledge and experience.
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I don’t find this strange at all. It’s basically what happens when you move to a new barn and the new barn has an exclusive trainer. That trainer is essentially obligated to train your horse even though the trainer has never seen it before.
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I don’t find this questionable, but I recognize that certain disciplines have different expectations with trainer involvement. IME most dressage and event trainers will work with what you show up with. I suppose it depends on the culture of that specific barn.
If you are used to the H/J world, the way other disciplines do things might make your head spin with how “hands off” trainers are in client lives.
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That’s not the same at all. Amos contacted this trainer BEFORE she owned the horse and asked to put the horse in training with her.
And you’re awfully naive to think that any trainer is “obligated to train your horse”, or that clients don’t sell their current horse and buy a new one as soon as they get to the new barn because the trainer doesn’t like the current horse. Happens all.the.time.
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But this client admitted up front that she needs the opposite of a “hands off” trainer, and that the trainer would be the sole source of training for the horse.
I wonder if, now that the trainer is injured, she’s wishing she had asked to see the videos?
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Tis the million dollar question, isn’t it. But unfortunately, it’s not just newbies. My beloved homebred and I got our confidence crushed beyond repair from a 5* clinician. I had been riding for >30 years at that point. It’s horrible and soul crushing and it doesn’t just happen to the new kids on the block and yes I should have known better but you know - trust.
I really do feel bad for Amos and her horse. Those X-rays are scary. Fingers crossed that the surgery works and she finds a trainer who is an expert at rehab and OTTBs and it finally becomes a happy ending.
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When I say “hands off”, I mean in terms of trainer involvement in your day-to-day life decisions – not the training or support aspect of training the horse. The “H/J Model” of micromanaging every aspect of the client’s equestrian life is not as prevalent outside of the east coast – from what shows you can go to, who you can ride with, what clinics you can attend, what horses you can buy, etc.
There are many things about this situation that I find strange and puzzling - but a trainer not being involved in a new client’s purchase isn’t one of them.
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Big yikes on the video.
I longe or long rein quite often in a similar set up to that seen in the video, although I probably wouldnt allow the outside line over the back, especially if I wanted the horse to stretch into it. Ideally it should be against the hindquarters and around the haunches. Long reining can be super helpful for horses that are behind the contact or hind behind side reins and the leg to train them to go out to the bridle without the interference of the rider. So I understand the trainers intent here.
I think the piling on the trainer here from one video is kind of disingenuous. The horse is obviously responding to stimulus he’s uncomfortable with. Would everyone be having the same response if the video was posted without rads? I would never continue to work a horse this upset on the long lines but I’ve had a few tricky moments with young horses on the lines where I’m sure still shots would be ugly. Sometimes horses freak out, especially young, inexperienced horses that haven’t been schooled this way. You really can’t let them get away on the long lines without it being incredibly dangerous. If the trainer had good intentions here I would not be happy that my client was sharing this video online. How’s your relationship with your trainer now?
I’m still having trouble blaming the seller entirely here, instead of some circumstances that were a hard lesson to an amateur rider/buyer. I feel sorry to everyone involved.
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