Buyers and sellers are on opposite sides of transactions. Sellers (and sellers’ agents) should never be relied upon to protect buyers’ interests. It’s not their role in the transaction. Sellers should represent horses honestly and to the best of their ability. Benchmark/Jessica appears to have believed that this horse’s issues were behavioral, and she does not think that it is important to take back X-rays of horses as part of PPE exams more generally. IMO, she held up her end of the bargain by providing plenty of videos, documenting and acknowledging the horse’s resistant behavior, and allowing any PPE the buyer wanted.
Buyers, not sellers, are responsible for determining if the horse they purchase is a good fit for their needs. They should do this by hiring a professional to represent them if they are not qualified to judge on their own, and by obtaining a PPE. If Amos chose not to involve her trainer in the process of selecting a suitable horse (which is very different than offering to connect the seller to her trainer to verify that the horse would be in training after the purchase), that is on her. If the vet actively discouraged back X-rays when Amos asked about them or after being shown video of the horse’s behavior by the buyer, that’s on the vet!
If Benchmark/Jessica were Amos’s trainer or acting as her purchasing agent, then I would say she had done wrong by Amos. But she wasn’t. So long as she presented the information she had about the horse accurately, responded to pre-purchase inquiries transparently, and did not interfere with the vetting process, she did what is expected of sellers, especially of high-volume dealers. Sellers are not obligated to turn away buyers who are naive and, conditional on the above, are not obligated to engage with unsatisfied customers after the sale in the manner of the customer’s choosing. Castigating people on social media for making a living selling horses – especially when they have a pretty transparent business model, though one that is certainly not for everyone – ultimately makes horses more expensive and makes it harder for OTTBs to find second careers.
I don’t think the take-away lessons here are about dealing with Benchmark/Jessica. I think they are about how buyers, especially those without substantial recent experience in the industry, should go about reentering the sport and buying a horse. Find a trainer first. Get back in riding shape in order to determine what sort of horse will be a good fit for your current capabilities and goals, and to develop a relationship and trust in the trainer. And then work with the trainer you trust to choose and vet a suitable horse.
Agree that it is not a side rein; that being said if my horses had their head in that position there would be a tremendous amount of slack in the rein and not taut. The horse while moving looked like there was no option; the reins (for lack of a better word) did not appear to give slack or appear that there was relief for moving the neck down and forward.
This is not a technique I have ever used lunging a horse, so yes, I am a bit ignorant. My reins are always lower, longer w/ the goal of the horse lengthening down and out to stretch over the back. I lunge my KS horses in this manner, w/ a belly band to lengthen and strengthen the core, I wouldn’t use the technique demonstrated above for a newly restarted OTTB or a young horse and never on one of my KS horses.
Just an interesting point (no I don’t have the reference) but a equine vet friend of mine mentioned she read a new paper on KS in TBs, including in the pool young horses who have not been saddled or ridden. There was NO statistical difference in the occurrence in the entire population based on work load. In a nut shell, unstarted horses may have KS. I read somewhere that 60% of horses Xray w/ KS. They may or may not be showing symptoms.
edited to add: if the horse can’t be reliably controlled (slowed) in this rig w/out cranking and either allowing or putting the horse into this frame - then I would think/expect a trainer would go to a simpler system and teach whoa and go first…
I really like double lungeing. But I don’t introduce it until until I have a horse that very competently understands how to lunge with side reins and go comfortably and softly forward and downward. And I introduce it in a roundpen or an area I’ve made smaller in an arena with poles or panels or what have you. And I don’t ever use it when I suspect a horse is up, or sore, or what have you because that’s setting the horse and I up to fail.
Competent double lungeing is a great tool. The video does not appear to show any competency on the part of the handler.
I agree with the majority of this paragraph.
I still think this horse trader bears some of the fault here. If she did not advertise herself as the person wanting to do right by the horses and the riders, I would feel differently.
We, all of us horse people, are not helping the horse industry by writing off everything a seller ever does as - the buyer should be more careful, not trust the seller.
Though I agree with all of the buyer beware things in life, because the only person looking out for you is ever going to be you, no matter how much you think you can trust that other person. I still think it is not OK to just say - Oh no, Jessica did no wrong at all, she can insist up and down all over the internet that she is different and she only wants to put horses with the right people, that does not mean she has to do that, she is a seller, so it is OK for her just sell whatever to whomever.
Again, the buyer was wrong to trust Jessica, I agree.
But we (horse people) need to step up our game and stop letting people not do what they say they do, and leave newbies holding the bag because they did not know better until they got screwed over once.
Horse people should look out for each other. Not pummel those who dared to trust.
And now everyone is hating on this person’s trainer. So how does one who is new know who to trust?
Two thoughts from my very adult amateur self:
- I have immersed myself and my OTTBs in dressage for several years. One used to event, hated it and now solely competes USDF. The other two come along for a LOT of dressage lessons.
I know this is a generalization and I’ll get hate for it, but it’s my experience and I’ve come to acknowledge the rumors are true. Dressage pros by and large do not like TBs and DO NOT know how to effectively ride and train them. I have begun to shift my attention toward eventers with a dressage specialty as they tend to be the only trainers I can find that approach my horses with empathy rather than severe and authoritarian methods. You just can’t crank a TB down like you “can” a WB.
The images of Amos’ dressage trainer working with a green OTTB acutely remind me of why I generally avoid dressage professionals now.
- I love OTTBS, in fact TBs are the only breed of horse I’ve ever owned in my life. However, I am tired of professionals talking down to amateurs that x-rays and PPE findings don’t matter. They absolutely matter to someone who only has one or two horses to ride. Findings on a horse that is currently competing in the intended job is one thing - findings on a green OTTB with 5 rides under it’s belt are completely another. I will always pass on a young un-proven horse that has significant findings no matter how many pros attempt to belittle amateurs and tell them they don’t ride the xrays.
Statistically speaking, for every one horse that can somehow make it to ULs with KS or a chip or whatever weird findings, I’d bet there are hundreds of horses who go on to present with lameness problems directly related to ignored PPE findings. The Pros that are trying to school everyone about “riding the horse not the xrays” don’t have to keep the horse once it goes lame.
I don’t understand why the trainer didn’t even bother to look at the videos of the horse before Amos finalized the purchase (and Amos did say at one point that the trainer did not see the videos). I just can’t imagine any trainer agreeing to take on a horse for training from someone who is currently in the process of buying a specific horse and NOT asking to see the videos, or why Amos didn’t send the video links to the trainer even without being asked. It just makes no sense. So we either are not getting the truth or this trainer is REALLY questionable when it comes to knwledge and experience.
I don’t find this strange at all. It’s basically what happens when you move to a new barn and the new barn has an exclusive trainer. That trainer is essentially obligated to train your horse even though the trainer has never seen it before.
I don’t find this questionable, but I recognize that certain disciplines have different expectations with trainer involvement. IME most dressage and event trainers will work with what you show up with. I suppose it depends on the culture of that specific barn.
If you are used to the H/J world, the way other disciplines do things might make your head spin with how “hands off” trainers are in client lives.
That’s not the same at all. Amos contacted this trainer BEFORE she owned the horse and asked to put the horse in training with her.
And you’re awfully naive to think that any trainer is “obligated to train your horse”, or that clients don’t sell their current horse and buy a new one as soon as they get to the new barn because the trainer doesn’t like the current horse. Happens all.the.time.
But this client admitted up front that she needs the opposite of a “hands off” trainer, and that the trainer would be the sole source of training for the horse.
I wonder if, now that the trainer is injured, she’s wishing she had asked to see the videos?
Tis the million dollar question, isn’t it. But unfortunately, it’s not just newbies. My beloved homebred and I got our confidence crushed beyond repair from a 5* clinician. I had been riding for >30 years at that point. It’s horrible and soul crushing and it doesn’t just happen to the new kids on the block and yes I should have known better but you know - trust.
I really do feel bad for Amos and her horse. Those X-rays are scary. Fingers crossed that the surgery works and she finds a trainer who is an expert at rehab and OTTBs and it finally becomes a happy ending.
When I say “hands off”, I mean in terms of trainer involvement in your day-to-day life decisions – not the training or support aspect of training the horse. The “H/J Model” of micromanaging every aspect of the client’s equestrian life is not as prevalent outside of the east coast – from what shows you can go to, who you can ride with, what clinics you can attend, what horses you can buy, etc.
There are many things about this situation that I find strange and puzzling - but a trainer not being involved in a new client’s purchase isn’t one of them.
Big yikes on the video.
I longe or long rein quite often in a similar set up to that seen in the video, although I probably wouldnt allow the outside line over the back, especially if I wanted the horse to stretch into it. Ideally it should be against the hindquarters and around the haunches. Long reining can be super helpful for horses that are behind the contact or hind behind side reins and the leg to train them to go out to the bridle without the interference of the rider. So I understand the trainers intent here.
I think the piling on the trainer here from one video is kind of disingenuous. The horse is obviously responding to stimulus he’s uncomfortable with. Would everyone be having the same response if the video was posted without rads? I would never continue to work a horse this upset on the long lines but I’ve had a few tricky moments with young horses on the lines where I’m sure still shots would be ugly. Sometimes horses freak out, especially young, inexperienced horses that haven’t been schooled this way. You really can’t let them get away on the long lines without it being incredibly dangerous. If the trainer had good intentions here I would not be happy that my client was sharing this video online. How’s your relationship with your trainer now?
I’m still having trouble blaming the seller entirely here, instead of some circumstances that were a hard lesson to an amateur rider/buyer. I feel sorry to everyone involved.
This is my preferred method too but I bet if she could, she would. Between the bolting and the BIG bucks it’s probably safest for all parties that it goes over his back versus around his hind end. One big buck and the line goes under his tail and given what we know about his back end and feeling constricted, I doubt that would end well.
I hardly think that asking to see already-existing videos of the green horse you are being asked to take on for training is “micromanaging”, and I’m not sure why you seem to be very invested in trying to convince me otherwise, but I’m absolutely willing to agree to disagree. This train of thought makes sense with a client that already owns a horse, but Amos said that she spoke with the trainer while she was in the processof buying the horse. I don’t see why a trainer wouldn’t want to see videos of what they’re agreeing to take on, if nothing more than from a sense of curiosity.
I think I’m mostly hung up on how this was presented as proof that the horse’s behavior was pain, and that the trainer thought this was the most suitable way to demonstrate that pain. When learning, yes, horses are likely to make mistakes on the long lines. I certainly wouldn’t use long lines to demonstrate lameness or pain.
But between the timeline as we’ve been presented (he’d been with the trainer a few weeks? a month? when this video was taken is my understanding? that is, for me, pretty quick to be going straight to long lining/double lungeing in a wide open arena at the canter on a horse who’s never done it before, and who lacks fitness), the IMO reasonable assumption that this horse had not been worked like this prior to coming to this trainer, the fact that it’s being done in a big open space when he is clearly green to them and being pushed forward into what appears to be a pretty unyielding hand, and what was clearly disclosed by Benchmark about him getting frustrated/upset when feeling trapped…I’m not surprised by the outcome of that video. Which is why I was wondering if he behaved this way on a normal lunge line? I’m guessing not, but I’d also guess that the NQR would still be pretty apparent. As presented it basically looks like goading the horse into a reaction with an unfair ask that he wasn’t adequately introduced to or strong enough to answer.
Honestly if the video was posted without rads or context I’d be more horrified, because I wouldn’t have the context of it being pain. I’d go straight to poor preparation on the part of the handler.
ETA: I am also coming into this with my own personal context of knowing several dressage trainers who have tried to crank young TBs into a very unyielding hand and getting the same results as above, both on long lines and under saddle. Horses who end up vetting clean, but who are not willing to be ridden the same way these trainers would start young warmbloods, with a very heavy hand and driving leg. Not saying this is correct or that all dressage trainers do it this way or that all TBs will resent this or that all WBs will accept it etc. etc. etc. but it’s something I’ve seen firsthand several times and heard about from others, as well. Without seeing those back rads, the video doesn’t look much different to me than what I’ve watched some trainers try to do while “showing this horse how to go into the contact.”
Could you point me to an example of what you mean? I haven’t seen these claims on her website or the occasional Facebook posts I come across, and I am functioning under the assumption that she presents herself as the seller or seller’s agent, not as the buyer’s agent. If she advertises her business to amateurs as “let me help you find your perfect match” and suggests that she is providing a professional service to buyers, then, while I’d still stand by all of my comments about the roles of sellers and buyers and the lessons to be learned from this very unfortunate circumstance, I’d be more critical of her marketing approach for sure.
She doesn’t claim any of these things; trubandloki is exagerrating and being very melodramatic. She does care about the horses and wants her buyers to be happy, but as you said she is not representing buyers and her website is very clear about how she does things. She’s selling OTTBs, and she’s offering buyers one level of evaluation above what they could get if they went directly to the track themselves. She’s selling green horses and she doesn’t have a crystal ball.
This is a small nit to pick in this whole mess, but…
I know that selling horses is the Wild, Wild West and that people play fast and loose with the roles of buyer’s agent and seller’s agent; but if you are correctly acting as a seller’s agent, you are required to deliver any legitimate offers to the seller, regardless of what you think of the buyer. The decision to sell or not to sell is the seller’s alone, not the seller’s agent.
How do I know this?
I was once threatened with a lawsuit for refusing to sell a very nice horse to a completely unsuitable buyer. I shared all my concerns with the seller, who consulted with their attorney, who advised them to complete the sale but carefully document all the concerns in the bill of sale and have the buyer sign it before delivering the horse.
Said buyer took me school over my responsibilities as a seller’s agent. It was a little ridiculous. I had a small local lesson and training business, and sold maybe one horse per year. I was the farthest thing from a dealer imaginable.
I regrettably completed the sale and shipped the horse the second the check cleared.
Fortunately the buyer got hurt on a different horse before he got hurt on the one I had represented, or I would have been threatened with another, different lawsuit. 
If the offer was legitimate, and the seller was okay with the terms of the sale, the seller’s agent was obligated to complete the sale. The buyer had a chance to do the PPE.
Maybe, just maybe, Jessica’s statements about matching up horses and buyers applies to horses she actually owns; not horses she represents as a seller’s agent. Because as a seller’s agent, she could not have correctly turned down a legitimate purchase offer on the horse unless the seller agreed, whatever she thought about suitability.
A legal obligation as an agent to CONVEY an offer and a legal obligation as a seller to ACCEPT that offer are two different things and I feel like your post slightly conflates the two.
