I keep on wondering how the former owner was injured.
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I’m glad to know that COTH is full of perfect horse people who always say the right thing. 
I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve made mistakes when evaluating horses, including their movement. I’ve also posted things on FB that I would not post now, several years down the road and wiser.
At least Jessica is out there doing it, learning along the way, finding these horses homes, and running a successful business.
I’d really like to know what credentials everyone else brings to the table to be so confident in their ability to judge someone else and seemingly take joy in it.
I don’t know anyone here, including Jessica, but the snarkiness and pettiness makes those of you engaging in it look bad, not her.
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I think more than a few of us have horses with kissing spines. And we’re not snarking about Jessica as a person… just pointing out that this horse’s physical issues aren’t subtle so these are the realistic possibilities…
- Jessica didn’t see it. In which case she’s not that great a judge of soundness.
- Jessica did see it and didn’t care because she cared more about getting the horse sold.
- Jessica did see it and intentionally didn’t investigate because she didn’t want to learn something she’d have to disclose that could hurt her sale prospects.
- Jessica did see it and knew it was likely a soundness issue and engaged in something akin to lying by admission.
I’m not going to guess which of the four it is. I don’t know what was going through her mind. I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume it’s the most innocuous explanation, #1. But, if so, maybe this will be a wake up call that despite selling hundreds of horses and widely sharing opinions on soundness, she’s not as good at spotting unsoundness as she thinks. And perhaps that might temper her opinions going forward.
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I can really see both buyer’s and seller’s perspectives for almost all of this if I think about it generously, but I don’t know what to make of that assertion about movement. I can’t attempt to Devil’s advocate that one.
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And that makes you the expert and makes it okay to bash someone else with whom you disagree?
I’m sure if a bunch of sport horse vets got together, you’d get a wide variety of opinions on KS, ones that differ from yours.
I just don’t see what you all (group) are trying to accomplish with the continuing criticism and assumptions. ETA: Rubbing it in someone’s face is the worst way to convince them their opinion should change, so if you feel it’s a horse welfare issue, this would the worst approach to take. I think it’s more about ego and proving you’re right than doing what’s right for the horses.
I’ve always respected you so much based on your COTH posts. It’s been surprising to see your posts here because I never would have thought you’d be so unkind to someone else. Not that my opinion matters, I know. 
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So now you’re suggesting the former owner was injured on this horse and there’s an even bigger cover up? LOL
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Oh lord this thread becomes more ridiculous. I have two years of videos of him being ridden in a dressage saddle but I will not be sharing as my friend isnt even wearing a helmet 
She knew him on the track and has extensive tb knowledge.
Seeing the lunge video, I believe that says it all right there. Not debating the film’s but also know there was nothing like ever seen here. You bottle any horse up like that and see what happens! Shocked he didn’t flip over honestly.
Would like to know who Lauren is or beowolf who believes they know so much about our horses and my experience with kissing spine. We don’t operate in a vacuum. Of course I know which horses were vetted and purchased with kissing spine. Some don’t sell to the original buyer but all have sold. I’ve never euthanized one due to kissing spine but I absolutely do euthanize dangerous horse, horses that I don’t feel can have a bare minimum career and anything that I just don’t feel right about. I’ve euthanized two that I felt had edm and both did test positive on necropsy.
There are so many people who truly believe kissing spine means a horse should not have a career. Do I disagree? Absolutely I do. I see first hand horses I’ve sold with kissing spine (known to buyers) actively competing anywhere from a year to 15 years post purchase. I love keeping in touch with buyers so it’s not like I’m unaware.
I have a different viewpoint but so many people run to back films at any sign of behavior without looking at their riding, tack fit and a million other factors.
I took back an incredible horse someone wanted to euthanize because of very mild kissing spine and behavior issues. We never had an issue. He came back and again we had no issues. He sold and was top three at every event. Was it the horse or maybe just the riding? So many things can change when a horse goes from one program to another.
If research is correct and over 50%-80% of horses have kissing spine then do we just deem them all worthless? Those are the questions I ask. I talk to every vet I know about it because I want to know what they see and what do they think about the kissing spine hysteria. How many horses truly are behavioral?
For every person saying that you can spot kissing spine on a horse, I agree to disagree. I have sent probably 600 horses to ppes with a lot of different vets. I have not seen a clinical exam being an accurate predictor of what the radiographs will be. Horses with zero pain, lovely muscle, good shape on the flat and over fences and boom kissing spine. Your poorly muscled upside down weak backed horse and nope they don’t have it. I challenge you all to answer how many PPE’s are you attending? How much experience do you have? Fear mongering is a real thing in the past two years over backs.
I don’t know how other people who do sales are handling it but lots of us talk. It’s a tight community. Some people won’t even entertain buyers who want back films. I am not one of them. It’s not up to me what films people take.
I do hear all the vets talking to buyers about what kissing spines may mean for horses. They spend a lot of time trying to educate but as I see on this thread some simply are absolutely deal breaker and that’s OK!
There are many different degrees of findings in the back. I think there will be a lot more research coming on it. Did it always exist and we just now can xray it in the field? Position of the horse for the film’s matters a lot in how films should be taken. It’s something I think about daily.
When I read this thread, I also ponder mental health. I am sure some people literally give no shits what they write if they believe it to be true but does anyone stop to look at the qualifications of those writing these nasty things. Someone saying oh Jessica sells lots of horses with active kissing spine. How do know this? I bet anyone who sells horses in any sales capacity sells horses with kissing spine if 80% of horses have kissing spine. It feels very mean girl kind of behavior and not much like eventers. I see a lot of dressage people commenting and it’s like dressage hub blog. No wonders trainers are quitting, harming themselves, suicide, etc. Your words have impact. I challenge each of you to be better. Make a difference in the horse world. I’ve rehomed easily 1000s of thoroughbreds into new jobs. I love what I do. I’m not getting rich. There is no glory in it. If my business folds, then what? So many people are so exhausted from this sort of crap they have quit. You all go take your chances buying fresh off the track now at prices equal to mine. Let me how well you do 
PPE’s are hours upon hours of time. I am not sending horses to a ppe that I don’t think can pass a ppe. That is just plain ridiculous and a waste of time for my staff, vets staff and quite frankly tarnishes any reputation. Horses right off the track aren’t going to look like a sport horse but they need to vet clean. If it doesn’t jog sound, I’m not buying it. Your business would fail if you didn’t have the ability to judge a sound horse.
I prefer a ppe because that takes my opinion out of the equation. You vet that horse however intensely you want. Some spend $4k on a ppe and that is their right.
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There’s no group conspiracy at work. They took the time to write you a very detailed, unimpassioned, unbiased response out of generosity -without any bashing of anyone or making egotistical maneuvers. Do you really think they deserve those accusations from you? (Rhetorical)
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No, just that I’m wondering how she was injured.
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I have a lot to say but most of it is about the past in this situation and probably not constructive.
OP you clearly want to do right by this horse - get it to another trainer, ASAP. One who has loads of experience in re-starting TBs. I know Amos has been off the track some time but his hard wiring is the same as one freshly off and these trainers will have much better tools to get you off to a good post-surgery fresh start. There are plenty of dressage (and other) trainers who were never taught how to bring along a big young thoroughbred.
I understand if your trainer was clutching the long lines because she was afraid - but she should admit she is out of her wheelhouse. As others have said, yes, the horse is in pain, but his behavior in that video could be easily replicated with most young thoroughbreds unfamiliar with lunging.
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I know Jessica has responded since this post and her comments are much more relevant than mine, but I didn’t want to let this post stand without voicing the very likely but unmentioned option 5: Jessica did see some issues (this seems likely given that she referenced them in her sales ad) and thought based on the progressive improvement she was witnessing under her riders (which is documented on video) that it was behavioral and not veterinary.
I don’t think it’s a fair assessment of the situation to say all options lead to either uneducated, uncaring, or malicious. With xray vision it is easy to see the problem is veterinary, but she does not have that and I don’t expect her to pay for back xrays for multitudes of horses she is offering under $15k.
I agree with @KellyS completely.
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Yo, so this is the pro ride that you sent this horse to. Amos offered to coordinate a convo between you and the trainer she lined up…did you take her up on that offer? Did you do any of this?
For a horse that you billed as a “pro ride” with “behavioral issues,” the pro lined up for the horse seems important. Because, come on, let’s be real: saying the horse needs a “pro ride” doesn’t mean that anyone out there that takes money to work with horses will be a good fit. You’re saying he needs something specific. So did you do anything to confirm this particular pro could provide what you thought this horse needed?
Unless it’s via phone, lol, amirite? (Did you ever call @Amos back?)
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I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I didn’t say anything about a conspiracy?
And the “unimpassioned, unbiased response…without bashing of anyone” said the following:
@Marigold said it better than I can when she discussed the fifth reason, but none of the above has any actual evidence behind it. It’s just pure assumption from someone who seems pretty biased against the seller and her business.
I don’t have an opinion on KS or Jessica/Benchmark because I don’t know enough about either and I’m not a veterinarian or a professional horse person in a business handling hundreds of horses per year. As far as I know, neither are most of the people commenting on this thread.
I know many people agree with vxf111, but I think the statements above are inappropriate, unprofessional, and totally uncalled for. And completely antithetical to what eventing has always been about…a sport where people support each other, help each other out, and don’t kick someone when they are down.
Yes, I’m really over the nastiness on here, and it bothers me that so many are completely comfortable with it or don’t see it at all. Nothing I do can stop it, but I have this need to speak up because I had a friend who committed suicide as a result of online bullying.
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I would consider that a version of #1.
Some of you are really going out on a limb straw manning the things I’m actually saying and accusing me of things I’m not.
I don’t think Jessica is a bad person. I don’t think Benchmark is a bad place to buy horses, if you you go in eyes wide open. I’ve inquired on her horses before.
I do think she has a big blind spot when it comes to certain veterinary issues and she at times overstates aspects of the horses she sells because of this blind spot. And Amos’s horse seems to be an example.
Amos seems to have made many mistakes in the process too, and apparently there’s a pretty questionable vet floating around my area.
I’ve never demonized Jessica. In fact I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt that there’s no dishonesty at play here.
But the bottom line is that if you look at the video of Amos’s horse, the one Jessica herself took, posted, and commented on… and you think that horse looks sound… you’re not that good a judge of horse soundness. And someone who is a professional horse salesperson and not that good a judge of horse soundness ought to be more circumspect about proffering explanations as part of the sale ad for why a horse going the way it does is training related versus soundness related.
Please don’t accuse me of saying things I’m not.
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That was a very out of context quote of my post.
I’m pretty astounded that you are accusing me of bullying when again and again I’m trying to be fair without being hyperbolic or “choosing sides.”
Funny how it’s ok to kick Amos when she’s down… you know… the one actually stuck holding the bag on this very challenging veterinary issue. But even suggesting a seller might want to be more careful in her marketing copy is “bullying.”
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Wow, this is really uncalled for. Your harassment of this seller is so intense it seems impossible that it’s not personal, but I thnk you claimed earlier that you don’t know her. What are you getting out of being so gross?
What do you think the trainer would have said to the seller if they had a conversation before the sale went through: “Oh hey seller, I lunge horses in a way that would completely piss off the mildest mannered horse, and I’m going to do it to your horse too”. How exactly is a seller going to know if a specific trainer is going to be successful with a specific horse just by having a phone conversation?
Based on the way Amos has presented herself here on this thread, there is no way I would have called her back.
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Dude, I’m asking pretty simple questions. Jessica says:
Did that happen here. For a horse that she said needed something specific. What did she do to ensure he got what she thought he needed.
Idk man, what does Jessica usually do or ask when she determines someone is a bad fit?
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Why are the minute details of how she runs her business so important to you, and do you really think presenting yourself as being rude and off-putting makes people want to provide you with any information at all?
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Yes, and my errors don’t negate the fact the seller sold a dangerous horse. Not ok.
Again, would it have been reasonable for me to resell him after seeing this, it’s a training issue so skip the work up just get him out of my barn?
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