[QUOTE=hntrjmprpro45;5967205]
I was speaking in general about the use of Tb when breeding warmbloods not specifically about one horse.[/QUOTE]
Actually I was trying to stay clear of stallions with Tb sires, or damsires and you’d be surprised at how many stallions I had to mark off my list because of that.
Since I have a full TB I’d rather have a warmblood with less blood to breed to.
Whew. What a thread. The only reason I’m posting again is to address one thing to whomever compared WBs to Draft horses.
WBs haven’t been like Draft horses since the late 1700s. Or was it the early 1800s? Regardless, the Europeans began purpose breeding horses between work and riding types literally hundreds of years ago.
While it has only been within the last 60 years or so that they began purpose breeding down to the discipline (dressage vs. showjumping), to say that WBs were like draft horses just a few short years ago is inaccurate.
IMO, mandatory reading for all WB or WB cross breeders is: “The Making of the Modern Warmblood” by Christopher Hector. There you will find the complete history of today’s WB.
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5967138]
Wow a top racehorse sire with ND on top! Lucky find!
Facepalm.[/QUOTE]
Terri, you’ve tried very hard to converse rationally with NOMIOMI1. So has RyTimMick. But NOMIOMI1 has, in addition to an annoyingly screechy screen name, a serious case of willful ignorance and, at this point, has earned his/her place on the Ignore list.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;5967285]
IMO, mandatory reading for all WB or WB cross breeders is: “The Making of the Modern Warmblood” by Christopher Hector. There you will find the complete history of today’s WB.[/QUOTE]
Such a great read!
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;5967285]
Whew. What a thread. The only reason I’m posting again is to address one thing to whomever compared WBs to Draft horses.
WBs haven’t been like Draft horses since the late 1700s. Or was it the early 1800s? Regardless, the Europeans began purpose breeding horses between work and riding types literally hundreds of years ago.
While it has only been within the last 60 years or so that they began purpose breeding down to the discipline (dressage vs. showjumping), to say that WBs were like draft horses just a few short years ago is inaccurate.
IMO, mandatory reading for all WB or WB cross breeders is: “The Making of the Modern Warmblood” by Christopher Hector. There you will find the complete history of today’s WB.[/QUOTE]
I believe I was the one that said it in the context of asking why the horses need so much blood in them to begin with. My point was the cold blood seems to outweigh the warm/hot blood after some time and the hot breeds are bred back into the lines… And often. (You wouldnt cross back to draft?)
My observation is that hardly anyone is breeding draft horses into the mix, but Tb’s are seen constantly in the very immediate (sire/damsire) pedigree.
So how much “blood” can be added to these guys until your horse really is just a very nicely conformed TB?
I think it is a reasonable question, and I am not trying to offend the people who favor a registry.
I am a huge WB fan, but I like the modern horses enough to imagine myself a TB fan as well 
Giants Causeway was brought up by someone making the point that he was a stallion whose fees were too expensive for him to be utilized for sport horse breeding, which is not a nonsensical statement, v the statement that a small breeder should go ahead and use 20,000 tb stallion to show their belief in him as a sport horse sire, which is nonsensical. Context.
Just like there needs to be context to the absolutist statement that “the best horse” will be the one bought. That’s just not true because it assumes perfect knowledge and perfect access and fungible riders. Good horses who are not too quirky and are offered through a venue that attracts good trainers and riders who are also not too quirky will often find a good trainer and rider to give them access to the right venues to shine.
Tuckaway, I pretty much agree all the way. The other big point the op hasn’t made is if they want a wb registry approved tb or specifically a Hol one, bc that makes the general spec on tbs moot.
Adena Springs has a Giant’s Causeway son, Giant Gizmo, for a 4000 stands and nurses fee. http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Giant_Gizmo
With the damside bringing in Greinton and Grey Sovereign. The also have mast track, who I have not been able to see and would like together some info on, for 2500. His sire, mizzen mast, is Cozzene, Graustark, Tom Fool, while the damside Pulls in a lot of the old usual suspects names, War Admiral, Princequillo, Bold Ruler, My Babuetc. with Ballymore and Luthier (klairon).
Giacomo is pricey at 5000 for stands and nurses, and is in Ca which may be an advantage or dis, http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Giacomo
but he is a derby winner and he brings sirs like The Axe and Sicambre and Grey Dawn-Herbager to the My Babu, Bold ruler, hail to Reason Tom Fool, mix. But I think the sires standing primarily to/for track may not be something the op is interested in, either due to the fact that they are not geared for shipping or because they are not registry approved
If you want TBs that are bred to run and jump, take a look at Presenting or any of the other NH stallions at Rathbarry Stud. Presenting is the sire of Denman, the 17+hh powerhouse who’s been a top chaser for years.
If I were going to try NOMIOMI1’s idiotic test for producing a winning sporthorse out of TB lines, I’d be looking to NH horses and not flat racers.
Not to mention that some NH horses do stand for sporthorses as well. Plus there’s the whole non TB register in which horses are eligible to race under rules. And I believe the rule has been changed in Ireland to include ALL registered TB stallions if you desire to go that way. So basically that would mean full Irish sporthorse papers by any of those guys if SO’s are on board.
That was one if the rule changes being discussed and I’m pretty sure it was passed. Maybe some of my Irish friends can jump in on that one!
Terri
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5967454]
Not to mention that some NH horses do stand for sporthorses as well. Plus there’s the whole non TB register in which horses are eligible to race under rules. [/QUOTE]
And to add to that, in the UK there’s the second-tier TB market (as compared to racing) for ‘showing’ stallions. The most successful of these TBs cross over into SJ and eventing. Java Tiger is a good example of this type of stallion.
The old UK Horses in Sport (HIS) scheme promoted TB stallions to the sport world. Shaab was an HIS stallion. Louella Stud, home of Primitive Rising, also had a number of outstanding HIS stallions. This was a very good program, I’m not sure if there’s anything left of it today.
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5967175]
The horse brought to question (Marius) was sired and damsired TB.
We were not talking about generations back :yes:[/QUOTE]
Again , you have no idea what you are talking about. Marius is sired by a TB stallion and is out of a Holsteiner mother. He was not “damsired by a TB” .
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5967605]
Again , you have no idea what you are talking about. Marius is sired by a TB stallion and is out of a Holsteiner mother. He was not “damsired by a TB” .[/QUOTE]
Ladykiller was a tb on that side, and I thought ladykiller was the damsire… SO I guess the damsire was 1/2 tb
Beg your freakin pardon.
:no:
[QUOTE=JER;5967416]
If I were going to try NOMIOMI1’s idiotic test for producing a winning sporthorse out of TB lines, I’d be looking to NH horses and not flat racers.
:)[/QUOTE]
I never said that the op should breed to a flat racer… :no:
I was posting them for a different reason altogether…
I actually support A fine Romance as a TB to cross for sport horse.
Calling me names simply shows you character :yes:
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5967665]
Calling me names simply shows you character :yes:[/QUOTE]
I said your idea for a ‘test’ was idiotic. That is not the same thing as ‘calling you names.’
[You have a lot to learn] on the topic of sporthorse breeding.
There are some very knowledgeable people on this BB with a lot of experience in the breeding world. If you’re truly interested in breeding, you can learn a lot from these threads. But if you’re just interested in spewing non-sequiturs and emotion-based arguments, you’re not going to learn anything at all.
[QUOTE=mbp;5967392]
Giants Causeway was brought up by someone making the point that he was a stallion whose fees were too expensive for him to be utilized for sport horse breeding, which is not a nonsensical statement, v the statement that a small breeder should go ahead and use 20,000 tb stallion to show their belief in him as a sport horse sire, which is nonsensical. Context.
Just like there needs to be context to the absolutist statement that “the best horse” will be the one bought. That’s just not true because it assumes perfect knowledge and perfect access and fungible riders. Good horses who are not too quirky and are offered through a venue that attracts good trainers and riders who are also not too quirky will often find a good trainer and rider to give them access to the right venues to shine.
Tuckaway, I pretty much agree all the way. The other big point the op hasn’t made is if they want a wb registry approved tb or specifically a Hol one, bc that makes the general spec on tbs moot.
Adena Springs has a Giant’s Causeway son, Giant Gizmo, for a 4000 stands and nurses fee. http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Giant_Gizmo
With the damside bringing in Greinton and Grey Sovereign. The also have mast track, who I have not been able to see and would like together some info on, for 2500. His sire, mizzen mast, is Cozzene, Graustark, Tom Fool, while the damside Pulls in a lot of the old usual suspects names, War Admiral, Princequillo, Bold Ruler, My Babuetc. with Ballymore and Luthier (klairon).
Giacomo is pricey at 5000 for stands and nurses, and is in Ca which may be an advantage or dis, http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Giacomo
but he is a derby winner and he brings sirs like The Axe and Sicambre and Grey Dawn-Herbager to the My Babu, Bold ruler, hail to Reason Tom Fool, mix. But I think the sires standing primarily to/for track may not be something the op is interested in, either due to the fact that they are not geared for shipping or because they are not registry approved[/QUOTE]
From his picture this one looks GORGEOUS!: http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Einstein Not your typical “Quarter horse” type of TB.
I got to see El Prado in 2008, LOVELY horse!
I got to see Giacomo as well but I don’t remember his hindlegs looking like that.
[QUOTE=JER;5967680]
I said your idea for a ‘test’ was idiotic. That is not the same thing as ‘calling you names.’
[You have a lot to learn] on the topic of sporthorse breeding.
There are some very knowledgeable people on this BB with a lot of experience in the breeding world. If you’re truly interested in breeding, you can learn a lot from these threads. But if you’re just interested in spewing non-sequiturs and emotion-based arguments, you’re not going to learn anything at all.[/QUOTE]
Either way Marius is more than half TB, was the point…
What is emotional? Saying that the horses are infused with massive amounts of “blood”?
They may be knowledgeable but they are also loyal to a fault about their registry, and incredibly silly about their inability to contribute to this thread with TB’s as was the ops question.
[QUOTE=Elles;5967711]
From his picture this one looks GORGEOUS!: http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Einstein Not your typical “Quarter horse” type of TB.
I got to see El Prado in 2008, LOVELY horse!
I got to see Giacomo as well but I don’t remember his hindlegs looking like that.[/QUOTE]
:yes:
I like Einstein as well. There’s a lot to like about this Sadler’s Wells son too: http://adenastallions.com/stallions/stallion.aspx?id=Sligo_Bay
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5967659]
Ladykiller was a tb on that side, and I thought ladykiller was the damsire… SO I guess the damsire was 1/2 tb
Beg your freakin pardon.[/QUOTE]
How many times must you illustrate that you have no clue as to what you are speaking to ?
"SO I guess the dam sire was 1/2 tb " You’re wrong again .I won’t even bother correcting you as the only way for you to learn is to find it out for yourself.
Who’s pardon do you beg ?
I tend to not have any qualms here about thoroughbreds or holsteiners since I own both, but NOMIES (or whatever it is called’s) tone just irritated me and I had to comment. Since posters like Terri tried to rationalize to her on their level, I simply put numbers up that she has been quoting (never even bothered to look before now). I don’t care about the blood percentage or thoroughbred influence or anything of the sort. I am striving to breed according to how Holstein would breed and that is all that matters to me.
However, you can repeat your link as many times as you want, but it will make no difference since I, in my ignorance, cannot read it. I do enjoy reading your perogative on this subject being from Europe, but I apologize that I cannot know completely what you are talking about since I only speak English and French, and the link is in neither. In fact, I think that most of this board will not have been able to read the link…
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
