Best American Thoroughbred Stallion for Holsteiner mare

[Stoney447]

[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5971000]
So the answer is that you have bred none then?

But you feel like your above very harsh comment is a valid opinion because you have seen top sport horses around the world?

Everyone has youtube FYI :lol:[/QUOTE]

Bayhawk has breed many horses, all of them Holsteiners. Some of his mares are from top families based in Holstein. He is very well thought of in the Holsteiner community. I only answer for him so we can avoid the links of charts asking where people’s horses are based off of performance ect. since this does not pertain to this conversation at all.

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5971029]
Maybe if you would get off of Youtube and go in person to World Cups , Hamburg Derby’s , WC Qualifiers etc. , you may in fact learn something.[/QUOTE]

The last barn I rode at for 10 years had FEI jumpers and dressage horses, as well as trainers and riders that have ridden in more than one country.

My trainer right now was selected for Dutch Championships several times when in Holland.

My trainer before her was long listed for the Dutch Olympic dressage team.

The one I will be lessoning soon on one of their horses is also nationally ranked as well as internationally in eventing.

Ive seen my fair share of top horses, only they were stalled next to my own

[NOMIOMI1]

[QUOTE=Stoney447;5971040]
Bayhawk has breed many horses, all of them Holsteiners. Some of his mares are from top families based in Holstein. He is very well thought of in the Holsteiner community. I only answer for him so we can avoid the links of charts asking where people’s horses are based off of performance ect. since this does not pertain to this conversation at all.[/QUOTE]

Most people so acclaimed have no need to pee on the lesser breeders but alas, no account for taste eh?

[selah]

Bayhawk is upset because he thinks I dissed his granny, and complimented his bicycle riding.:lol:

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=selah;5971070]
Bayhawk is upset because he thinks I dissed his granny, and complimented his bicycle riding.:lol:[/QUOTE]

Selah , I have no idea what this post from you means. I am not upset with you or anyone else. I simply commented on what I see.

[Equilibrium]

Well I can imagine push from behind might be a wee bit compromised due to his man parts being whacked off the day before which needs consideration.

But there are also other components to top horses beyond pedigree and perfection in a specimen. And that’s top horse’s of every competition and of course racing.

Terri

[selah]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5971089]
Selah , I have no idea what this post from you means. I am not upset with you or anyone else. I simply commented on what I see.[/QUOTE]

Post 224 for one;)

Bayhawk, EVERYONE knows you would never EVER compliment a sporthorse from a TB dam, no matter how spectacular he was…so your credibility in THIS particular matter is severely compromised. Suffice to say that his owner has to switch barns because the current one doesn’t have high enough rafters in the arena…must be the TB dam:lol:

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=selah;5971125]
Post 224 for one;)

Bayhawk, EVERYONE knows you would never EVER compliment a sporthorse from a TB dam, no matter how spectacular he was…so your credibility in THIS particular matter is severely compromised. Suffice to say that his owner has to switch barns because the current one doesn’t have high enough rafters in the arena…must be the TB dam:lol:[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely untrue. A good horse is a good horse…unfortunately , very few top sporthorses come from TB dams.

Rafters ? This statement from you is the same as all these folks saying their foals are incredible jumpers because they jumped out of their paddock.

Here’s your chance to prove it. You think he’s good horse from a TB mother ? Prove it.

I never read 224 from you.

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5971090]
Well I can imagine push from behind might be a wee bit compromised due to his man parts being whacked off the day before which needs consideration.

But there are also other components to top horses beyond pedigree and perfection in a specimen. And that’s top horse’s of every competition and of course racing.

Terri[/QUOTE]

Terri , please don’t make excuses. His athleticism and way of going have nothing to do with him being gelded that day or that minute. He is what he is.

[vineyridge]

I thought he did a rollback that was almost reining worthy.

[selah]

[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5971168]
This is absolutely untrue. A good horse is a good horse…unfortunately , very few top sporthorses come from TB dams.

Rafters ? This statement from you is the same as all these folks saying their foals are incredible jumpers because they jumped out of their paddock.

Here’s your chance to prove it. You think he’s good horse from a TB mother ? Prove it.

I never read 224 from you.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, this from a guy whose fearless leader has never bred a horse, whose verband has to breed huge numbers of horses every year just to get a few good ones, whose fearless leader has approved four out of a total of six TB stallions with the same sireline, and who practically has to hold a gun to the heads of the breeders to get them to use them…probably because the culls from the heavy horses taste better:rolleyes:

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=selah;5971125]
Post 224 for one;)

Bayhawk, EVERYONE knows you would never EVER compliment a sporthorse from a TB dam, no matter how spectacular he was…so your credibility in THIS particular matter is severely compromised. Suffice to say that his owner has to switch barns because the current one doesn’t have high enough rafters in the arena…must be the TB dam:lol:[/QUOTE]

Selah, don’t pay any attention. Anyone who says he can fully evaulate a horse from that much video is full of hot air.

In any case, there are still quite a few top eventers from TB dams:

http://www.wbfsh.com/files/Eventing_Horses_Rankings_07_Final.pdf

#10 2011 rankings Orient Express: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10139029

#15 King’s Tempress is from a TB motherline http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=KINGS+TEMPTRESS

#16 Lenamore has a TB dam: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=LENAMORE

#20 Tempus Fugit sire Jetball: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=jetball
dam: Etruscan: http://www.pedigreequery.com/etruscan4

#21 Mister Pooh http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=mister+pooh

#33 After the Battle http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=AFTER+THE+BATTLE

#35 Newsprint sire: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=rubiton

dam: http://www.pedigreequery.com/dream+of+kingston

#37 Neuf des Coeurs http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=NEUF+DES+COEURS

#39 Avebury http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10495807

#42 Keniski: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?d=KENISKI

and many more…

Not to mention those sired by TBs out of warmblood and ISH mares.

[Equilibrium]

As a horseman it makes perfect sense that a horse who has been cut the day before is going to be a little sore behind. Why on earth would that not be taken into consideration?

But I don’t really give a crap. Considering there was nothing glaringly wrong with this horse, I try not to make assumptions. And not because I don’t want to hurt somebody’s feelings. Generally because I’ve watched many horses make fools out of people on both ends of the spectrum.

As usual, so stupid an argument.

Terri

[Lynnwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYL1m45AIMw&feature=related

Since this guys sire has a previous thread. He looks quiet nice and all be it a bit tense and green plenty of scope. Maybe a little fast and loose with his front end but hes clearly distracted and powering over the jumps. I’d love to see him jumped under saddle and see how he goes.

Agh ask and you shall find …good ole you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD6KqNXy_hQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMvcnENoa4&feature=related

[Elles]

Article about thoroughbred:
http://www.horses.nl/fokkerij/artikelen/20044/11-05-11-meer-aandacht-voor-volbloed-in-warmbloedfokkerij
After use of a translation machine (sorry thoroughbred is translated as whole blood):
05/11/11 "More attention to thoroughbred in warmblood breeding ’
by Uwe Dreesmann
I am an avid fan of the use of English Thoroughbred in warmblood horses. The best horses I have bred from a half-breed thoroughbred mare and I think can provide hardness, courage and willingness. Yet I have no blood in my years broodmare. This is because there is currently no good thoroughbreds available and that worries me.

I set high standards for thoroughbreds that I want. They should in my view not only enough horses in the model and in terms of movements in the vicinity of a riding horse, but have done himself a lot. I use thoroughbreds only if they have walked long distances on the track. Thoroughbreds who have performed at short distances, are very dangerous in my eyes.

Especially in terms of building these animals usually do not meet the requirements I have set. They are often built and move downward thereby down. In Germany we 'General Ausgleich Weight "(GAG), which is to be read or a stallion has been successful in the sport. Stallions that I use, at least one GAG ​​of 90 kg. If it is lower, I use the stallions in advance not. Besides I only use English or Northern Irish thoroughbreds. The use of Arab blood is very dangerous for breeding. This make the use of horses for leg broken.

Past
In the past, these stallions plenty available in breeding. This has several reasons. The farm leaders about 30 years ago at the wheel of the books were, were often the transformation of agriculture to horse riding horse is (partly) and actually experienced this transformation is based on whole blood. Therefore knew that farm leaders precisely what was needed in a good thoroughbred and thoroughbreds were properly selected for the faster horses breeding. In addition, the horse then another bit was heavier and more necessary than now breeding. Still, I think we, especially in the dressage horse breeding, growing horses actually get a bit too heavy. It is therefore vital that something be done. It’s not just the pedigree line that causes a lack of good breeding in thoroughbreds. Many breeders are very reluctant to experiment with whole blood. They prefer a black colt by a popular dressage stallion foals because they’re easier to sell once. With no end product you breed thoroughbreds, but they make sure that you can continue in breeding.

Search
Finding a good thoroughbred is a difficult job. The thoroughbred breeding industry, is like the horses breeding, not stood still and the horses were changed slightly. So they built a little more down than before and that is not a positive trait in breeding horses. It is important that leaders of various warmblood breeding herd seek out the right thoroughbreds. This initiative is for me from the herd, because you are so sure that there are horses on the continent which met the requirements that you as a stud horse set to comply.

Cooperation
Studbooks are usually not the money to yourself to look for horses to buy. Therefore it would be a different outcome as well as some stud stallion owners will work together to ensure a proper blood to mainland Europe is. Actually faced with it all warmblood stud books there is no good for breeding thoroughbreds available and therefore, such a work can bear much fruit.

In addition, more information should come from the herd on the use of whole blood. This one could ensure that breeders know the positive effects of the thoroughbred breeding and they would rather consider a thoroughbred stallion to work.

Uwe Dreesmann was successful Hanoverian breeder. He bred Shutterfly (by Silvio I) Meredith Michaels Beerbaum. From Shutterfly’s mother, halfboedmerrie Famm (v. Forest xx), bred him three international jumpers.
This opinion was published Wednesday, May 11, 2011 in The Horse Gazette

I think that this type of stallion like Forrest xx is still around.

FORREST C, DP = 1-0-3-0-2 (6) DI = 0.71 CD = -0.33

Horse Inbreeding Stats Crosses Lines Blood% Influence AGR
ST SIMON 9s x 8S x 8S x 9s x 9S x 10s x 10s x 9s x 9s x 9S x 10S x 10S x 9s x 9s x 10S x 9S x 10s x 9S x 9S x 10s x 10s x 10s x 10s x 10s x 8S x 9s x 10s x 10s x 10S x 10s x 10S x 10s x 9s x 7D x 10d x 10D x 10d x 9D x 10D x 10D x 10d x 9D x 9d x 8D x 10D x 9d x 9D x 10d x 10D x 10D x 8D x 10d x 9D x 10D x 10d x 10D x 10D x 10d x 8d x 9D x 9D x 9D x 9D 63 25 (11) (14) 10.84% 4x5 11.28%*
NEARCO 4S x 5S 2 2 (2) (0) 9.38% 4x5 14.04%
GALOPIN 10S x 9S x 9S x 10S x 9s x 10S x 10s x 10S x 9s x 10s x 10S x 9s x 10S x 10S x 10S x 9S x 10S x 10s x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10s x 9S x 10S x 10S x 8D x 10d x 10D x 10d x 10D x 10D x 9D x 10D x 10D x 10d x 10d x 10D x 10d x 10d x 9D x 10D x 10D x 9d x 10d x 9D x 9d x 10D x 10D x 10D x 9D x 10D x 10d x 10D 54 13 (4) (9) 6.84% 5x5 2.94%*
BLANDFORD 5S x 6S x 6d 3 3 (2) (1) 6.25% 5x5 9.35%
PHALARIS 6S x 7S x 7S x 9S x 7D x 6D 6 3 (3) (0) 5.66% 5x6 9.60%
PHAROS 5S x 6S x 8s 3 2 (1) (1) 5.08% 5x6 11.43%
SCAPA FLOW 6S x 7S x 9S x 7D x 6D 5 2 (2) (0) 4.88% 5x6 8.19%
POLYMELUS 7S x 8S x 8S x 9S x 10S x 8D x 7D x 9D x 7D x 7D 10 5 (5) (0) 4.79% 5x6 6.71%*
FAIRWAY 6D x 5D 2 2 (2) (0) 4.69% 5x6 11.24%
CYLLENE 8S x 9S x 8S x 9S x 10S x 9S x 8D x 10d x 9D x 8D x 10D x 8D x 8D x 8D x 8D x 8d 16 7 (5) (2) 4.59% 6x6 4.64%*
SWYNFORD 6S x 8S x 7S x 9s x 7D x 7D 6 4 (3) (1) 4.49% 6x6 7.32%
ST ANGELA 10S x 9S x 9S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 9S x 10S x 10S x 8D x 10D x 10D x 10D x 9D x 10D x 10d x 10D x 10d x 9D x 10D x 10d x 9D x 10D x 10D x 10D x 10D 33 2 (1) (1) 4.10% 6x6 0.00%*
ISONOMY 10s x 10S x 10s x 9S x 10s x 9S x 9S x 10s x 9S x 10s x 10S x 10S x 10S x 9D x 10d x 10D x 10D x 10D x 10D x 10d x 10d x 10D x 9D x 10D x 10D x 10D x 10d x 10D x 9D x 10d x 10d x 10d x 10d 33 6 (3) (3) 3.91% 6x6 2.76%*
CANTERBURY PILGRIM 8S x 7S x 9S x 9S x 8S x 10S x 8D x 10D x 9D x 8D x 10D x 8D 12 2 (2) (0) 3.61% 6x6 3.76%*
HAMPTON 9s x 9S x 9S x 10s x 9S x 10s x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10S x 10d x 10D x 9D x 9d x 10D x 10d x 10d x 9d x 10d x 10D x 10D x 10d x 9d x 9d 24 9 (4) (5) 3.22% 6x6 3.61%*
BROMUS 7S x 8S x 8S x 8S x 10S x 8D x 7D 7 2 (2) (0) 3.22% 6x6 6.99%*
BEND OR 10S x 10s x 10S x 8S x 10s x 10S x 10s x 10s x 10S x 10D x 10D x 10D x 10D x 9D x 10D x 8D x 10d x 10D x 10D x 10D x 9d x 10D x 10D x 9d 24 11 (5) (6) 3.22% 6x6 1.90%*
ORBY 8S x 7D x 7D x 8D x 7d 5 5 (4) (1) 3.13% 6x6 3.22%
WHITE EAGLE 7s x 7s x 8s x 8d x 7d 5 3 (0) (3) 3.13% 6x6 4.90%
RABELAIS 7S x 8s x 8S x 6D 4 3 (2) (1) 3.13% 6x6 7.98%

A while ago I asked which thoroughbred horses William Micklem likes most in sporthorses:
http://www.barnmice.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1773158%3ABlogPost%3A134787&commentId=1773158%3AComment%3A371610&xg_source=activity (bottom of the page).

[Equilibrium]

Thanks for the article Elles. Very confused on the Northern Ireland reference when choosing TB’s though. There is no division of Ireland when it comes to breeding horses. An Irish bred is Irish bred weather born in Derry or Kerry!

Terri

[Elles]

That is an odd statement yes but it is what it says in the article. I had not noticed it until you mentioned it.

http://www.shutterfly-stable.com/erfolgc.html

[vineyridge]

There are a couple of misconceptions in the article. Sprinters have fast twitch muscle fibers in abundance, and some of the greatest sport horse lines come from sprinters like Mumtaz Mahal. You need fast twitch muscle for jumping. You might not want precocious sprint horses–the two year olds who never develop to longer races–, but you do need the explosive power from the hind end that good sprinters of the old school brought to the table.

I think turf versus dirt would be a slightly better test.

[Elles]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;5972199]
There are a couple of misconceptions in the article. Sprinters have fast twitch muscle fibers in abundance, and some of the greatest sport horse lines come from sprinters like Mumtaz Mahal. You need fast twitch muscle for jumping. You might not want precocious sprint horses–the two year olds who never develop to longer races–, but you do need the explosive power from the hind end that good sprinters of the old school brought to the table.

I think turf versus dirt would be a slightly better test.[/QUOTE]

I know but a lot of wamblood breeders think that way, I think most! Because they hardly know a thing about TB’s.
That is why I mentioned Frankel because he is such a terrific miler. Most people keep saying that the TB has changed so much and that nowadays there are only sprinters with a sprinter type of body. I think that that is not right and enough TB’s have proved so. I think an Epsom Derby winner also has good stuff. Still there are lots of horses that have many times the same lines that Ladykiller had only more because of the number of generations in between having grown ofcourse. There is nothing original or extinct to these lines:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/ladykiller These horses with “classic speed” are the way to go according to me.

[vineyridge]

My research indicates that the greatest sport horse sire lines at least in the UK, Ireland, and North America tend to have come from winners of the St James Palace Stakes, which is a mile race.