It seems to me the successful competitor combines the best of the WB and the thoroughbred–so I do not see any losers in this argument. 
[QUOTE=omare;5966045]
It seems to me the successful competitor combines the best of the WB and the thoroughbred–so I do not see any losers in this argument. :-)[/QUOTE]
=]
[QUOTE=omare;5966045]
It seems to me the successful competitor combines the best of the WB and the thoroughbred–so I do not see any losers in this argument. :-)[/QUOTE]
Yup!
I did say TBs and FI hybrids, didn’t I? Mighty Magic is 3/4 TB F1 hybrid; Marius is an TB FI hybrid. There has been a great deal of discussion here and on the eventing board on the fact that the judges of the YEH and FEH classes are all WB breeders. We’re still waiting for one of the horses who won those classes to make it to Upper Level eventing in the US. I’m not familar with Samurai, but if you’re talking Le Samurai, he was a TB F1 hybrid, IIRC–and his sire was also high in TB blood. Windfall was a TB F1 Hybrid. Even the great (but not Holstein approved, I believe) Cavalier Royale was 51% Blood and his best ISH eventers were from mares that were at least 1/2 TB (sire on top) and sometimes full TB.
Lady Calido may have won every event she entered with Robyn Fisher, but per FEI records, she never went any higher than a CIC 3*, which is the short version of XC. The true test of an UL event horse is CCI 4*, where the XC AT THE MOMENT can last from 9 to 11 minutes. It used to be longer, and many people and National Federations responding to the FEI Questionnaire on the future of eventing think the FEI has shortened it too much. They want the 4* back at 11-13 minutes.
But you’re right in that dropping the extra 10 + miles of Steeplechase and Roads and Tracks did open the sport to less stamina oriented breeding.
[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5965860]
I won’t say they have lost their stronghold, but they are definitely slipping. The last Olympics, won by a Holsteiner(Marius). Last years European Young Horse champion Holsteiner (Mighty Magic), and 3 of the 4 top YEH champions on the West Coast were Holsteiners, the 3rd Position was held by a Trak. I also don’t have to mention Lady Calido and Samurai.
However, yes, they are still dominated by TB’s. Maybe this is the venue to select breeding stock from and someone can start putting their money where their mouths are. There are plenty of cheap TB stallions to breed to. Many are even doing discounts for sport horse production. No excuses people, if you think you can do it, then by all means go ahead. No one is stopping you.
Tim
P.S. I would add, they are great for production of WB breeding stock. :)[/QUOTE]
Talk about Blood! It’s the Blood that gives the necessary stamina.
[QUOTE=themarchcat;5965984]
And one of his most famous mounts, Tamarillo, is an Anglo-Arabian! =D[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5966000]
Marius is a Holsteiner from a Holsteiner mother. He is not a TB.[/QUOTE]
He is by a TB
How funny is that!
And we say Obama is black
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;5966042]
That’s pretty funny when someone says that one shouldn’t be using TBs to breed for the top of the sport and then points to a horse that was by a TB.[/QUOTE]
Im glad Im not the only one that feels like they are in the twilight zone!
Tbs are no good! NO GOOD, but look at this fine horse… He is half Tb but we call him a Holstein so as to erase that horrid association 
bayhawk would probably say that one drop of Holsteiner blood makes a Holsteiner, if the blood came through the mare.
[QUOTE=themarchcat;5966018]
No, he may not be full Thoroughbred, but Snaffle81 is saying that he has quite a bit of Thoroughbred influence, being that he was sired by a Thoroughbred as well as having other Thoroughbred influence down the line.[/QUOTE]
All you folks are just making my point for me. All you can do is cite TB %…these horses are not TB’s and this is my point. They may be half TB , they may be 70% TB but they are NOT Tb’s.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;5966060]
I did say TBs and FI hybrids, didn’t I? Mighty Magic is 3/4 TB F1 hybrid; Marius is an TB FI hybrid. There has been a great deal of discussion here and on the eventing board on the fact that the judges of the YEH and FEH classes are all WB breeders. We’re still waiting for one of the horses who won those classes to make it to Upper Level eventing in the US. I’m not familar with Samurai, but if you’re talking Le Samurai, he was a TB F1 hybrid, IIRC–and his sire was also high in TB blood. Windfall was a TB F1 Hybrid. Even the great (but not Holstein approved, I believe) Cavalier Royale was 51% Blood and his best ISH eventers were from mares that were at least 1/2 TB (sire on top) and sometimes full TB.
Lady Calido may have won every event she entered with Robyn Fisher, but per FEI records, she never went any higher than a CIC 3*, which is the short version of XC. The true test of an UL event horse is CCI 4*, where the XC AT THE MOMENT can last from 9 to 11 minutes. It used to be longer, and many people and National Federations responding to the FEI Questionnaire on the future of eventing think the FEI has shortened it too much. They want the 4* back at 11-13 minutes.
But you’re right in that dropping the extra 10 + miles of Steeplechase and Roads and Tracks did open the sport to less stamina oriented breeding.[/QUOTE]
Marius and Mighty Magic are both Holsteiners from Holsteiner stamms 730b and 1947 respectively. They are NOT tb’s. They both have Holsteiner papers , Holsteiner brands. They do not have JC papers because they are NOT tb’s.
And this thread is about a horse to foal out a 50% tb.
So we all seem to be right on track :lol:
[QUOTE=vineyridge;5966131]
bayhawk would probably say that one drop of Holsteiner blood makes a Holsteiner, if the blood came through the mare.[/QUOTE]
Nope…it’s only a Holsteiner if it’s born from a Holsteiner mother…period.
No they are not full Thoroughbred, and heck, there might not ever be another top Thoroughbred jumper, but there are many still holding their own in eventing at the 2, 3, and 4* level and that is a variation of sport. But again, show jumpers may not be full Thoroughbred, but many top jumpers have minimum to maximum Thoroughbred influence, you can’t deny that.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5966207]
Marius and Mighty Magic are both Holsteiners from Holsteiner stamms 730b and 1947 respectively. They are NOT tb’s. They both have Holsteiner papers , Holsteiner brands. They do not have JC papers because they are NOT tb’s.[/QUOTE]
Holsteiners are the ones allowing such a high percentage of TB in their lines and still registering the horse as pure Hosteiner… If JC had a need for holstein blood… Well you get what I am saying.
So I guess to feed the fire, you could say that JC is a much more pure registry :lol:
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5966218]
So I guess to feed the fire, you could say that JC is a much more pure registry :lol:[/QUOTE]
<teheee> :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;5966127]
Im glad Im not the only one that feels like they are in the twilight zone!
Tbs are no good! NO GOOD, but look at this fine horse… He is half Tb but we call him a Holstein so as to erase that horrid association ;)[/QUOTE]
The world calls him a Holsteiner because he IS a Holsteiner , born from a Holsteiner mother , from a Holsteiner breeder and born on a farm in Holstein !
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5966223]
The world calls him a Holsteiner because he IS a Holsteiner , born from a Holsteiner mother , from a Holsteiner breeder and born on a farm in Holstein ![/QUOTE]
On a farm in Holstein:eek:
Well why didnt you say so!
That changes everything :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5966223]
The world calls him a Holsteiner because he IS a Holsteiner , born from a Holsteiner mother , from a Holsteiner breeder and born on a farm in Holstein ![/QUOTE]
…with a JC registered Thoroughbred sire…
That’s all we’re trying to say here. He is a prime example for the OP because he is a “warmblood” sport horse at the top levels with a THOROUGHBRED sire. That’s what the OP is trying to accomplish for herself.
[QUOTE=themarchcat;5966217]
No they are not full Thoroughbred, and heck, there might not ever be another top Thoroughbred jumper, but there are many still holding their own in eventing at the 2, 3, and 4* level and that is a variation of sport. But again, show jumpers may not be full Thoroughbred, but many top jumpers have minimum to maximum Thoroughbred influence, you can’t deny that.[/QUOTE]
Never denied that. As a matter of fact , I have been saying it over and over. The TB blood is essential in the generational breeding of warmbloods.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;5966223]
The world calls him a Holsteiner because he IS a Holsteiner , born from a Holsteiner mother , from a Holsteiner breeder and born on a farm in Holstein ![/QUOTE]
But really… The world calls him Holsteiner because Holstein needs to run their blood through a strainer to avoid getting dead heads that are more draft than anything :eek: Yes I said it. So they do and then still call him a “holstein” but really… Is he?
In the arab world he would have 1/2 papers… Maybe Holstein should give credit where credit is due and give these horses their own registry
1/2 Holstein (Ill start the petition )
I LOVE the warmblood… But not fifty years ago YEESH.
Modern horses are all the craze for a reason… And they are so muddy in the bloodlines it aint funny
I like a little Heinz 57 myself :yes:
