I am interested in hearing from anyone that has thoughts on the use of tranquilizers while hunting.What are you using,how much and why do you choose to use them?Is the use of ace promazine ect advised and or recommended by friends to make your ride “safer”?
Any response will be helpful.Pro or con.
Very silly idea - you’d fall off !
Better Hunting Through Medication
I am referring to the use of meds for the horses ,not the riders at this point.
Even sillier.
I give one of my horses (a BIG 16.3 hh WB mare) between .75 and 1 cc ace about 30 min prior to hunting. It makes all the difference. Otherwise, she has a tendency to spin, fly backwards, throw her head, etc. during the “waiting” time period before the hunt moves off–it’s truly unpleasant, and not safe for other horses or people on the ground. With the ace, she is calm while I walk her around, and will focus on ME and not everything else. When we’re actually GOING she’s fabulous, it’s just while waiting around that she looses her marbles.
Ace, when used correctly (i.e., not overused or overdosed), can be very beneficial.
Our other horses do not need anything.
Sometimes you rely on your horses superior instincts to get you out of trouble. Why would you dull them! If you want to trail ride - then go trail riding or get a suitable horse to take hunting.
Oh, you’ll get some lively discussion on this topic.
I’ve never ever used drugs to ride a horse for any discipline- hunting, showing, parades, whatever. Don’t like the concept. Probably swayed by a bad wreck in the show hunter ring that I saw in the early 70s, and I knew the horse was on Ace. My own point of view on the subject is, if the horse doesn’t take to the discipline (whichever discipline) with a good training foundation, patience, and tincture of time where appropriate- then it needs another niche in life.
That said- I know seasoned foxhunters (people that is) who’ve used Ace on their horses for decades and are happy with it. However…I also can recall some decades back, when certain foxhunters asked that their horses be given ‘a bit of tea’ on hunting day- the gentleman bringing the horses to the meet made a bit of a show of ‘pretending’ to give the Ace to the relevant horses. Riders, confident that the horses were appropriately doped (even though they weren’t) relaxed, and as a consequence, the horses were just fine.
A few years ago, a foxhunting friend bought a nice young horse from a well known maker of hunters, who is also known to routinely give ‘everything’ a small amount of Ace. She was not pleased with the way the horse went over fences, it was as though it had totally failed to process the lessons- and so she started her jumping education over, from scratch.
I can’t believe I agree with Equib***^5 on this.
If you have to medicate them to hunt them, then you are overhorsed.
My own point of view on the subject is, if the horse doesn’t take to the discipline (whichever discipline) with a good training foundation, patience, and tincture of time where appropriate- then it needs another niche in life
.
Totally agree with this, and have found an alternative niche for one horse, though most take to it with delight given time and a good horse to nanny them initially.
I know of one person who is reputed to routinely sedate and her horses are unpredictable and behave oddly at times. I wouldn’t touch them with a bargepole.
Nic
The problem with aceing a horse for hunting is that when drugged the horse really cannot “learn”.
A lot of people think that they can just ace them for the first few hunts and then they’ll be fine without it. But IME the second you stop drugging it’s like you’re at square one.
So the choice is to try to ride it out without drugs, or drug them every time.
And as others have said, when hunting you want your horse to have all of its faculties, which it won’t be with ace.
Actually
I recently read results only of a good study===horses that received an anxiolytic dose learned and retained more than untreated, anxious horses–this is useful for retraining “bad experience” horses who are anticipating another bad time of it—did not make any reference to under saddle as I remember-but I didn’t read the entire study.
The study was done using ace? I didn’t think that ace had any true anxiolytic properties. (Unless turning a horse into a zombie to “calm” them down counts.)
That “Study” is Flawed
It has been my experience that a horse that is used to being “Aced” is worse without it and hasn’t really learned a thing about how to handle themselves nor their anxiety.
All y’all can flame me if you want but I gave my draft cross up to 1 cc of Ace 30 minutes prior to loading a few times. In consultation with my vet and after we hemmed and hawed and hashed it over. Not really a hunting issue - but more of a trailering anxiety problem. Also took a ride in the trailer to see if anything was banging around, there were odd noises - that sort of thing. Moved the divider at his head and that seemed to help a little.
Anyway - none of this stuff cures anything so if the horse can’t be ridden unless it’s drugged it’s probably time to sit down and reflect. Got a lot of advice that was pure gold, though. Most of it from more experienced foxhunters on this BB.
More hay, less grain
Work the day/evening before
Turnout the night before
Hilltop (this advice I did not take because there was often no hilltopping group on the weekdays and the large crowds on the weekends were too much for my horse at first - so it was the lesser of two evils but still a mistake as my horse eventually turned into a stopper)
Bit up
Half seat and more defensive position xc
Don’t stay out the whole time on a green horse unless he’s doing well - end on a good note and go in early if you think he’s done enough.
Give the horse time - don’t push the horse.
Horse hunts on the buckle now and takes catnaps at checks. Naps on the trailer. Wouldn’t say he’s a “real” foxhunter because no one in my hunt likes the horse and I still am told to sell him and get a “real” foxhunter. Don’t know what that means but he’s quiet and well mannered and sure footed and that’s good enough for me.
Good luck.
Wouldn’t say he’s a “real” foxhunter because no one in my hunt likes the horse and I still am told to sell him and get a “real” foxhunter.
So what? Sounds like a real foxhunter to me!
[QUOTE=JSwan;4206133]
Horse hunts on the buckle now and takes catnaps at checks. Naps on the trailer. Wouldn’t say he’s a “real” foxhunter because no one in my hunt likes the horse and I still am told to sell him and get a “real” foxhunter. Don’t know what that means but he’s quiet and well mannered and sure footed and that’s good enough for me.[/QUOTE]
I’m at a complete loss as to why this horse isn’t considered FABULOUS. He sounds wonderful and you can send that “pretend” foxhunter over my way any day 
Ace - no. I’m sure it has it’s place, but I’m not comfortable riding a drugged horse. Especially over large, solid fences and iffy terrain. I’d rather road whip…on foot.
I think it’s nothing more than that some folks think it’s better to just buy a made foxhunter and not have to deal with the jigging, or other… joyful exuberance. It is a pretty valid point - especially if the rider is new to the sport.
But the light eventually came on and he stopped jigging and fretting at checks. Maybe people remember how much trouble he gave me and haven’t forgiven him. I have though and that’s all that counts.
Anyway - the dose of ace I gave prior to trailering was long worn off before I mounted. (according to my vet) - horse is a little over 1400lbs and by the time I was in the saddle it was at least two hours. I never did figure out what was setting him off.
I don’t think riding a sedated horse is a good idea. Maybe under some sort of controlled conditions while rehabbing an injured horse or something - I think folks like reserpine for that too. I don’t think it makes for a safer horse. A few beers doesn’t make for a safer driver - though I’m sure they feel they’re handling the vehicle just fine until they end up in a ditch.
[QUOTE=Leather;4205926]
The study was done using ace? I didn’t think that ace had any true anxiolytic properties. (Unless turning a horse into a zombie to “calm” them down counts.)[/QUOTE]
I believe the study used Dormosedan.
My own experience has been the exact opposite.
I have a TB with some real anxiety issues. Ace helped him stay calm when he was left behind and Ace helped him tremendously with trailering (especially alone). Without it, initially, he ran himself into a frenzy in the field (horse would probably have killed himself in a stall) and would piaffe in the trailer.
1.5 cc of Ace kept him calm and allowed him to learn that he would be fine.
I did not have to start back at square one without it.
As for hunting horse that have been Aced, I know plenty who do. I’d never really come across it before foxhunting and while I was initially opposed, I have a more moderate view. I now believe that giving a horse a cc of Ace an hour before the hunt so that they start out calm seems to do good rather than harm. I have never seen a horse that looks like a Zombie and having given Ace to my own horse and then seen him running in the field, he did not lose any of his sure footedness. I’m still appalled by those who give more than 5ccs to a horse and then take them out and hunt. That does seem excessive.
As others have stated, I’m not totally opposed to a little Ace if it helps a horse be calm and focused on his rider at the meet and the hack to first covert.
I’ve been the victim of of folks riding beastly types at the meet, that are kicking out and spinning and leaping. It’s dangerous and distracting.
I once bought a horse that I had lusted over when out hunting because of it’s good manners in the field, at checks, and of course it’s good looks as well.
The first time I took it hunting, all was fine until the huntsman released the hounds from the trailer and tooted his horn and the field began to move off.
My perfect horse suddenly started running backwards in sheer panic and refused to go forward to join the field behind huntsman and hounds.
I was appalled and embarrassed, and more than a little angry when I later found out that the horse had never been hunted with less than 3 cc of Ace flowing through it’s veins.
My bad, I guess, for not asking before I plunked down my money if it’s performance was chemically “enhanced”.
Same horse would also act up on a trail ride if there were more than a handful of horses, almost backed me off of a riverbank one day along with the unfortunate soul riding behind me.
I sold the lovely beast (with full disclosure) to someone who enjoys riding in a ring, and they are both happy.
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