Do they need to be approved?
This statement is not true. Not even close.
And yes, they need to be presented. I did the same with my WB mares.
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It’s the same here.
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Then I’d assume the TB mares haven’t been presented, for whatever reason of time cost convenience etc. To be clear I am talking about smaller or less savvy breeders, in the context of where do lower cost ammy horses come from?
Thank you for this post! I definitely plan to incorporate all of that into my program. I also plan for this to be a very small, hobby program but I agree with the posters who state that there are enough horses in this world that I don’t want to add to the problem if I can avoid it!
One question I had was about the phenotype part of your post. I see a LOT of horses whose parents are pretty different. Draft crosses in general come to mind. Irish Sport Horses or Georgian Grandes (although the latter seems to have faded in popularity) are common and seem to be sought after. I have been pondering an ASB/Iberian cross but not the type of ASB bred for saddleseat. More the older style, thicker, non-snorty type. So similar to the Georgian Grande but instead of draft it’s Iberian cross.
My thought process is to lengthen the neck a bit and have a strong topline and hindquarters. But I suppose it’s less about the breed and more about the individuals/certain bloodlines being bred (that they match) to your point above about picking mares for your stallion.
Thank you again!
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I would think that the old style saddlebred (mare) bred to a well comformed and decent moving Iberian could produce a nice sport type. I would focus on matching the bone of each (in other words the old style saddlebreds I knew were relatively stout with good length of leg and neck. I knew several saddlebred x TBs that were very nice many years ago.
I had two Clyde X TB mares years ago. They shared the same TB sire out of two different Clydesdale mares who were not related. They couldn’t have been more different. I purchased them at the age of 4 so not the breeder. They were both well proportioned but one definitely inherited a more drafty build and looking at her dam line going back it was easy to see why. She was still a very good all round type.
I would really focus on good hind quarters, strong loin connection, nothing with a tendency to travel out behind or push from behind. A good tie in at the neck/chest also would aid you in the type you want.
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With that cross I would really focus on something that can release over its back well for the breeds.
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Both Canadian Warmblood and Sport Horse registires seem to require inspections, either through them or another registry.
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Why ASB x Iberian?
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Ok I have no idea then how backyard or small breeders make their registration decisions when they score some big name WB frozen semen off FB marketplace :). Or if they just sell the horse based on the sires name. I did know of a Canadian Sporthorse whose mother was unregistered mixed breed, but he would have been born about 20 years ago. It’s not a hill I need to die on, and I don’t know why small time breeders make the decisions they do or what the constraints are currently. My point was just that there do seem to be WBxTB horses in the lowend market that don’t get registered in the “real” registries for whatever reason. I’ve seen them. I don’t know the breeders and I don’t know their decision making process.
There’s also a lot of QH around that don’t get registered (maybe hiding metabolic disorders).
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That’s been my train of thought. The stallion I’ve been following is Lider 7 (Lusitano) and would likely choose a mare based on suitability to breed to him in addition to individual qualities as this mare will also be a riding horse for me. Since I want to ride/compete in dressage with said mare, crazy swan necks, hocks out behind and weak loins would discount a prospect for me as well. But I’ve seen really nice ASBs that check the boxes. I currently have a DHH gelding and I’ll be considering them as well. Same criteria, really.
The Spanish breed the Tres Sangre for sport. PRE, TB and Arab in variable proportions.
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Iberian x TB is nice. It makes the gait a little longer but the horse still looks very typey Iberian. Also Iberian x WB. To me, Iberian x Arab tends to make something flightier and finer boned
We had a big national Iberian breed show in town for a number of years. One of my coaches has Iberians so I’ve done a lot of watching and seen a lot of mixes.
I feel like Iberian x WB gives a slightly calmer mind.
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Lider Seven is a nice stallion. He is relatively new so I’m not sure what he is stamping.
How do you plan on registering the offspring? Are you breeding the foals with the intent to sell as a foal? Or are you planning on raising the foal and training them to saddle to then sell?
There is a wide swath of the horse population in the US that fits those parameters and doesn’t come with an expensive pricetag.
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If you are talking about the lower levels of dressage, pretty much decently conformed horse regardless of breed who hasn’t had its brain fried is more than capable of being an ammy friendly mount.
As mentioned above, Morgans, Welsh cobs, Arab and Arab crosses, Saddlebreds, etc. all do quite respectably.
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Or maybe their breeders don’t care about papers or they (the foals) are not up to the breeders standards, so they don’t register them. Hard to say, I wouldn’t pin the lack of papers on genetic disorders.
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Yes could be lots of reasons. But COTH has taught me to be wary of genetic disorders in unregistered QH.
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My plan for registration will somewhat depend on the breed of mare I end up with - for DHH or TB mare I will have to go with the IAHLA half-bred registry. ASB has a half-bred registry as well.
Honestly I think the first one or two foals produced will be keepers as my next prospects. If I end up wanting to breed the mare with sale of the baby will depend on which stallion I end up choosing based on what she throws for me. I may get her approved for KWPN and choose a warmblood stallion known for temperament and soundness and sell the foals younger. If it’s a cross bred the plan will likely be to at least start them under saddle and potentially keep them until they have a solid training/1st level foundation in place. Either way the babies produced will get age-appropriate education to make them solid citizens.
I’m a bit confused.
Can you explain again what is the thought process/plan? From what I am reading, it seems to be to produce dressage horses for the amateur market, because in your opinion what is currently available from North American breeders of dressage prospects is generally:
- too hot/sensitive
- has extravagant movement that is hard for an average ammy rider to sit
- too big
- too expensive
So you think breeding crosses using DHH, ASB, or TB mares with… PRE or Lusitano stallions… might create a horse that is a better dressage mount for amateurs?
And you plan on both breeding and starting these babies under saddle, and getting them showing experience through training or first level? Then selling them?
Are you a pro rider yourself, or a longtime competitor at the upper levels? That’s a key puzzle piece. For amateurs with a healthy budget to take a risk on buying an unusual cross, there probably needs to be something enticing about it… if it was started and had initial show miles put on it by a good rider with upper level show experience on their resume, that would add something appealing, I think.
With that said, I have seen a few DHH for sale recently who have been produced REALLY nicely by top notch riders, and gotten going at shows… and they aren’t selling. One was clearly really hot… and even though it’s talented and nice… it’s just not selling. The other one was 17.2, with a huge head. It seemed quiet and was a nice horse… but just huge, and unappealing to many buyers for that reason. There just seems to be a lot of variability in terms of the DHHs on the market… and though some are nice, others are not necessarily really marketable to a number of ammy buyers, unless they are priced pretty low.
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