Bilateral cryptorchid in a Corgi pup

[Cooper]

I have the opportunity to get a Corgi pup, and went to visit litter yesterday. They are 6 1/2 weeks old. There is just nothing cuter than a litter of Corgi pups! My pick male has a wonderful personality, and of course I fell in love! Owner of the litter sire was there, as well as breeder, and I was able to meet both Mom and Dad. We did discuss pros and cons of waiting to neuter. The sire owner, who is involved in breeding and showing in conformation, called me on my way home to say she thinks there is a very good chance that pup is bilateral cryptorchid, and it would be best to neuter sooner rather than later because of possible complications it can cause. (Increased rate of cancer, testicular torsion). Apparently, she has seen other pups this dog has sired with same issue. Not sure why she continues to breed him, but that is another topic. He is one of top ranked Corgis in nation.

Now what??? How complicated is this procedure? Is it costly? Should I ask the breeder for a price reduction? I’m really torn on this one. I specifically chose this litter because not only are the parents beautiful, but all applicable health testing was done (DM, VWB, OFA, etc) and looked great. Now this pops up. They are asking 2k for pup. Thoughts and advice please!

[Sswor]

I’d pass. 2K is insane, in my opinion. And the cryptorchid situation has the potential to be a gigantic mess. Have a friend of a friend who has a cryp Lab. They located the testicle attached to the spleen. Impossible to remove. Corgi is a common breed.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

I agree, I think $2,000 is too much for a pup with this condition.

It’s not quite the same thing, I’ll admit, but I had a kitten that was a crypto. Because he and his brother were so small, I opted to wait to have them neutered until they were about five months old, and we didn’t know until Tiny was on the table that he was a crypto. Surgery took about an hour, mostly to locate the blasted things (one was hiding behind the kidneys), and he came home with 21 stitches. He recovered fine, and no signs of cancer. It’s not impossible, but I would have a serious chat with you vet first. Maybe you can do ultrasound and make sure he is a crypto first, and then see how involved the surgery would be?

[vxf111]

I would feel different if you already owned this puppy, but to BUY one needing abdominal surgery, under the circumstances you described, makes no sense to me.

[JanM]

There is zero reason to pay $2,000 for this puppy. That would be a decent price for a show quality, you wanted to show in the ring, but not for one that will need major surgery, and is only a really adorable couch potato. Plus, this sire has other puppies with this problem, and I wonder what else there might be in the background, since the breeder continues to breed him.

I bet you could find a really cute corgi for a lot less than $2k.

[S1969]

I’d be surprised if the breeder didn’t offer a reduction given that they know the pup would need surgery, plus it obviously can’t be shown. Unless they are telling you that the testicles might still come down (which they might)…but if they suspect it is bilateral cryptorchid…I think it’s a little strange that they aren’t already offering a reduction.

In cases like this that I’ve known about, the breeder looks to just place the puppy (or sometimes re-place it, if the confirmation came after the puppy had already been taken home by another family.)

Also curious about the # of males and how you were matched with that specific puppy? If this is a top ranked Corgi, I would expect most of the puppies would be going to show homes?

I would ask for a different puppy, and see where that discussion takes you.

[Cooper]

While Dad is show quality, Mom is not. She has a wonderful personality, and is a very prettty girl. I would not expect these puppies to be show quality, and they are not being presented as such. Owner of bitch is new at this, and I think is taking lead from owner of Dog. I did reach out to the owner of sire this morning, and let her know I was concerned. I also reached out to my Vet and she can’t really comment on how difficult surgery would be without knowing exactly where testicle is. She didn’t seem overly concerned with the procedure, but she definitely questioned why they are breeding this male!

I was bothered by stud dogs owner. She said she “never discounted for crypts” and that is is “quite prevalent in the breed”. Really? Well, not really helping prevalence if you continue to breed your dog that is throwing the issue!!

[Sswor]

Why are you considering spending 2K on a pet quality dog?

[S1969]

I won’t fault someone for buying a fully health tested puppy and paying for it…but I am wondering about a breeder that uses a stud that has produced cryptorchid puppies enough that they come to expect them. Especially if the breeder is not breeding show quality puppies. I think cryptorchidism is produced by both male and female, but if this is the female’s first litter there is no way to have predicted it. (I might be wrong on that.)

The bitch owner is the breeder, and I’d probably not bother to communicate with the owner of the stud (unless they are co-breeders?) because it’s not up to that person to make the decisions. The novice breeder may find out the hard way that not everyone will pay full price for a cryptorchid puppy. I’m sure your vet can’t give you an exact figure but can probably give you a “no less than XXX” surgery costs…I might get that number and go back to the breeder for discussion.

This is what I would do - 1) request a different male puppy; 2) request a discount in the amount of the surgery estimate; and 3) be prepared to walk away. I can’t imagine that this isn’t going to be at least $500+ in surgical costs…or much higher depending on where you are located.

[chestnutmarebeware]

I agree that that price is crazy for a puppy that’s not from proven show lines. Since they’re breeding a bitch with conformation issues to a dog with a proven history of siring pups with cryptorchidism, I wonder what other unethical things they’re doing. Have they tested both parents for the known genetic corgi issues?

Apart from that, if done young the surgery shouldn’t realistically be super-expensive. Other than the game of find-the-testicle, it’s basically comparable to a spay. My vet charged me $30 more for monorchid surgery than a regular young-dog neuter.

[vxf111]

Why were these puppies even bred? Mom is not sufficient quality. Dad throws a known heritable problem? Why would you want to give these people money?!

I think the cost my vary. Before I got him my purebred cat had to be neutered 2x because they only got one testicle the first time and he was a crypt. This was more than a decade ago and it was over $700. Plus all the risks of surgery.

[Cooper]

I’m walking away. Thanks for helping me clarify what I really already knew. Right thing to do, but still sad

[Magicboy]

Good for you. The right decision and good luck finding another pet quality corgi puppy. You should be paying $900-$1200 for a pop

[Magicboy]

Oh for heaven sake’s, I meant for a puppy

[Marshfield]

@JanM

I bet you could find a really cute corgi for a lot less than $2k.

2k in California for a Pembroke from titled and health tested parents is going to be about par. I can feel testicles by about 5 weeks, I would expect a price reduction on this particular puppy if he remain a cryptorchid due to increased cost of neutering

[Marshfield]

@Magicboy

Good for you. The right decision and good luck finding another pet quality corgi puppy. You should be paying $900-$1200 for a pop

That’s incredibly low for a puppy from health tested parents. Those start at $1500 in New England

[JanM]

Cooper-good decision, and I know you’ll find the right dog for you soon.

I just think $2,000 for a dog with a known defect might also turn out to be one with other genetic issues that you wouldn’t have found out about until later.

[S1969]

@Marshfield

That’s incredibly low for a puppy from health tested parents. Those start at $1500 in New England

Yes I was going to say that the cost of a puppy will vary by region and I would think CA and New England might be similarly priced.

A well bred puppy in my breed in New England is unlikely to be found at <$1K and I know a breeder in CA that charges >$2K…and we often see litters of 8+ puppies so not small litters.

But…all of this depends on what you call “well bred.” I know there are some field breeders in my breed that will breed an untitled bitch to a National Champion sire…but generally the bitches are still impressive in the field. Outside of that type of situation, I rarely see “good breeders” breeding untitled dogs. I’m sure they are out there, but they don’t fall into the criteria of “good breeders.”

I’d keep looking, although that’s a let down at this late stage of the game.

[Magicboy]

You can find working Corgis from registered parents in cattle country…not show quality but very healthy. Ranches still use them to move herds around.

[S1969]

@Magicboy

You can find working Corgis from registered parents in cattle country…not show quality but very healthy. Ranches still use them to move herds around.

I have no real issue with people who breed working or pet quality dogs. But “healthy” working dogs or pets still need to be selected for based on specific criteria and have appropriate health testing, in my opinion.

Otherwise they are not “well bred” or necessarily “healthy.”

But they are probably cheaper.