I have a 20 year old horse and we are doing very low level dressage - she was a jumper, I am an advanced beginner rider. She goes in a simple french link snaffle in a Micklem bridle. I have had her two and a half years. I have weekly lessons to make sure i keep learning and am riding her correctly and she is also ridden by the trainer once a week to help keep her in shape. Recently, she has shown some reign lameness in the trot only and only when she is right at that point where she just needs a little bit more to drop into frame. Once she drops into frame, it stops and if i can keep her there, she’s fine. I got her body work, took her to the vet, etc., and they all say she looks fantastic and are stumped as to why she is doing this. Decided to give her a little break from dressage and do some things i wanted to try, like bareback and bitless, etc. First time i rode her bitless and got up enough nerve to actually trot and try getting her into frame, it was efortless for her and zero lameness. So, I called the dentist out and he said (I don’t know the technical terms, so hopefully this will make sense) that her back molars are basically flush with the gums, so where the bit sits on the bars, there’s nothing behind to keep the bit from going back onto those teeth. He said she basically has no place for the bit to sit anymore. When i asked him what the fix was (i.e., a different bit or if he knew a bit fitter or something), he had no ideas. He would not say that this is the cause of the reign lameness, of course, but said it’s possible. So, first, I have no issue riding her without a bit at home - it’s good for me to learn and she seems happier. We do like to go out on trails and the occasional schooling show off property (she may not require a bit for schooling shows, but if so, that would be an issue). This is a big girl who is a little opinionated and can get a bit hot off property, and if i need a bit to continue in dressage, I need to find something comfortable for her. I have been googling and searching and contacting everyone i know to see if anyone has come across this issue and has any ideas to move forward, but have not had much luck. I live in Texas and a search for bit fitters came up with nothing. Surely this cannot be such an uncommon issue with older horses? Anyway, hoping someone has some thoughts, ideas or suggestions?? TIA!
In terms of bits, my go-to is the Herm Springer KK Ultra made of Sensogan. They’re a little pricy but there are usually bit trial programs that allow you to try it for a period and get a refund if it doesn’t work out. Alternatively, there are some lightly used ones on Facebook for decent prices which is where I usually go.
You mentioned that she was fine the first time you went bitless. Later I think you mentioned you tried bareback & bitless, did she have a saddle on the first time you went bitless as well? Sorry just trying to get a better picture. Could be the fit of the saddle if she goes noticeably better without a saddle. Also can sometimes be the girth fit, or even the bridle fit if she was in a different bridle setup when she went bitless for the first time.
I am surprised a 20yo is so far advanced in the tooth wear. It is a challenge if so
I am inclined to think it best to investigate any number of possible physical issues, from hock to neck , that an elderly horse can run to. Double check that saddle fit.
Dont overlook a simple unjointed bit for more balanced, stable contact
If she has nowhere for the bit to go so that it clangs into her back teeth (I have a hard time picturing this)–I might try a bit NOT made of metal–such as a rubber bit, a nylon bit, a silicone bit, a braided rope bit…my baby horses like the Sprenger Duo bit for their starter bit.
I think if the bit is moving back over the old damaged molars and gums that would be pretty painful. I would consider sticking to schooling shows and just showing bitless.
Neue Schule turtle top bit might work, it locks and is fairly stable. They do online consultations: https://nsbits.com/
Maybe a Boucher bit would work. Dressage Extensions used to offer trial bits.
i’d think to try (and i NEVER have used one, so this is just an off-the-wall suggestion that i might try if i were in your shoes…) a bridle configuration …drop noseband and add a flash to keep the bit in place.
As for bits, i’d try every single silicone and rubber coated one i could find. Thinking maybe a Mullen might be more stable…IF you can keep the pressure adjusted on opposite rein when you are indicating a turn or some such thing. It will probably improve YOUR riding to operate a Mullen too. Keeping that pressure on the outside rein is more than just a concept when you’re riding in a mullen…it’s critical to keep the bit in their mouth!
A drop nose and is below the bit, and will not prevent to bit from sliding towards the molars. A flash is the same.
These are not ever used together because they would be layered over the same place on the horse’s face.
What in gods earth are you talking about here. Every bit is like this. It’s not like the joints are stretchy or the bit is held together with “The Force” or something.
Plus, if you’re pulling hard enough to pull a bit through a mouth, I have other questions.
OP, you are already using a Micklem, get the clips. They can keep the bit off the bars of the mouth. Or or you can just tie it up to those rings with a cord.
thanks! i am totally ignorant of how either of those equipment pieces work.
So, do you know of anything that would hold the bit in place, bridle-wise?
I don’t think i can describe it better, but i’ll try… When you have a broken bit, (either once or twice) you twitch one side and the other side remains in place, the break gives that other side independence. When you have a bit that is straight alllll the way across, you pull one side the other side moves. And by pull i guess it was a poor choice of words… perhaps move would be better. I obviously don’t mean tugging on the horse’s mouth, but if you want to go there of course you could based on my wording.
Hi again, I’m going to gently suggest that if you don’t have personal experience with the mechanics of a piece of equipment… It’s a little dangerous to suggest using these things. If the person needing assistance is also unfamiliar with that equipment they might try to follow your advice to a bad result/experience for their horse.
Wellll, she is free to use or discard any and all suggestions. I suspect she’s an adult. But since you are worried…how about this:
If it were me and i was experiencing this with one of my horses, i would seek a bridle configuration that would help to secure the bit and keep it in place.
additionally, i’d be trying many different styles of silicone and rubber covered bits.
Of course. But neither of the things you suggested would do that. You did not know that. What if she didn’t know that and she tried it? I don’t think it’s helpful to throw out random ideas regarding equipment that you have no personal experience with. It could be damaging.
geezus… ok fine. you win, i’ll leave this thread.
OP
The simplest way to keep the bit away from the bars/teeth is to get a flash noseband, remove the flash itself, and use a cord tied to the bit ring on each side, and run the cord through the flash loop. You can play around with the tension to get it just right. I have a horse in my program right now with his bridle in this configuration. It transfers some of the rein pressure to the bridge of his nose, and keeps the bit off his bars.
One of the first things we changed was the saddle. It didn’t help. I have her going in the new saddle, with a bit and she does it - without a bit in the new saddle, she is fine.
Great sugestion, and i did try that. Didn’t help.
Darn
I have been thinking about your problem. I have some thoughts, but none of my thoughts about this are dressage legal.
The Sure Win bit holder holds the mouthpiece of the bit up off the bars unless the rider is pulling. Just google it, it is used mostly with race horses. The horses I tried it on did not seem to mind it at all.
Possibly a Kimberwick for a bit. Correctly placed in the horse’s mouth (vertically above the chin groove) with the curb chain attached it may stop the bit from migrating up your horse’s bars unless you are pulling at the bit.
Riding with just a curb bit, my preference is a Weymouth with 5" side pieces because of how it fits in the mouth and on the head (I find the purchases of the regular Western grazing curbs too long.)
If you are feeling particularly daring you could try the Pee Wee bit. With a light hand and light contact it might work for your horse.
None of these suggestions are dressage legal, sorry.
