Bitless option for horse that crowhops/plays

[fivestrideline]

Well, I tried the rope halter. He was actually quite happy in it as far as his mouth/head, and steering is okay. I had him carry his Mullen mouth with no reins attached while I rode off the rope halter underneath and I didn’t hear or feel him chomp at all! Definitely less power steering in this setup than in a bit, but more than the side pull. I may try a different size rope halter tomorrow and see if I can make it better.
I still get the feeling that if he locks his neck and wants to go left, I would not be able to pull his head around to the right, for example.

It was good information, though, telling me that whatever he’s got going on with the head twist appears to be bit and contact related rather than general riding.

Here’s how I have it adjusted. Maybe TOO high?

[fivestrideline]

@Posting_Trot

You probably just don’t have enough expensive bits in your collection!

I own five bits that all cost less than $100 - except for the massive collection that is too big for him, of course!

The girl, I got him from suggested the Duo, but my fitter thinks he may want some with independent side movement. I guess the Fager she suggested has that. I think I’m gonna find out how much the bit fitting costs because if it’s less than $300 I’ll come out on top vs buying just two bits.

[IPEsq]

I would put the rope halter on underneath your bridle and have reins on your bit as well. I did this rehabbing one horse who was feeling claustrophobic about contact but couldn’t be trusted without at least a snaffle available to be used. The bridle helps to keep the rope halter from twisting. I put reins on the sides of the halter. Then held onto my actual snaffle reins as if it was a loose curb unless I needed more control.

[enjoytheride]

These are useless because they spin on the face if you really have to pull on them. They are good for soft horses with good brakes.

[fivestrideline]

I need to find my curb reins… two sets of thick rubber reins ain’t it!

Also I realized I have a Hybrid Halter I can borrow to try clipping to the bottom or side rings. I don’t think horses respect them as much as a regular rope halter but it’s worth a shot.

@enjoytheride

These are useless because they spin on the face if you really have to pull on them

Good to know. I thought that might be the case!

I still feel like with the rope halter if he really wanted to lock his neck and go left, there is no way I could pull his head around right (which I could with a bit). Faults of bitless riding, I think, but he is SO much happier and generally willing to work without a bit at the moment. I may be double rein riding for a while, which is no fun on the trail.

[big_red_thoroughbreds]

I’m glad it was helpful ! You’re right that the rope halter isn’t useful for unlocking the neck to the side when in motion, but you can get good flexions to the sides in the halt and a solid one rein stop with practice. So if they really try to drag you out of a turn by locking their neck you can one rein stop, flex them in the halt, and then proceed back in the direction you were trying to go. Ugly, but functional to correct it. The one you have on him in the pic is about how I would fit it. You can move the knots to fine tune the noseband/crown ratio if you are invested enough. I bet the hybrid halter with the reins on the side would work too as long as it is snug enough to not twist.

ETA: to clarify, the advantage of a setup with the reins under the chin is that you can pull back as hard as you need to with either rein without twisting the halter, and pulling sideways enough to twist it it takes a lot of effort because you have to really plow rein, so the stopping power when you’re being taken off with is actually pretty fair for bitless. One with reins on the side is a lot easier to twist even when you’re trying to put even pressure on both reins.

[skydy]

A rawhide bosal that is used with Western bridle horse progression? There are different weights and thicknesses that you can try.

[fivestrideline]

Hmm I’ve been scrolling through google looking at loping and breaking hackamores. I actually think he may like one of those - as if I really need another bridle . It may be next if the rope halter/hybrid halter doesn’t get us over this hump.

I was really impressed by how well he steered off the leg yesterday vs earlier this week when bitted - not perfect and we did have to have some discussions over not dragging toward the gate (one rein stop and flex), but dramatically better. I’ve been working on lateral cues from the ground and that seems to have paid off when he isn’t using his entire brain cell to worry about the bit.

I’d like to find a rope or rawhide “noseband” that I can put on my side pull in place of the flat leather one. I think that may split the difference, and the side pull has clips for a bit so I can have him wear it and use a “curb” rein setup if needed.

[Words_of_Wisdom]

I would try something on the thinner side-- in my experience, many of the mouthy ones are fussy because the mouthpiece is just too thick.

[fivestrideline]

Hmm how thin? The one he’s in is 12mm. I know he doesn’t have room for much, so the thickest I’ve tried is 16mm.

Finding thinner bits is indeed difficult - many retailers don’t list the dimensions on their sites which is annoying, IMO.

[Inimitable]

I use this on my mare (with a headstall and no noseband) who absolutely cannot tolerate a ‘normal’ bit. I alternate between this and a seahorse hackamore.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/723613283/bridle-less-bit?click_key=622dc7ab45d54b9534ea5ff0d54ed06fd32bc315%3A723613283&click_sum=8fc60707&ref=shop_home_active_24&frs=1&crt=1&sts=1

[fivestrideline]

I’ve been eyeing this for another horse, but I think it’s about the opposite of what this one wants! He doesn’t seem to care about nosebands or any other configuration. But I have one that would love it!

Tried the hybrid halter today with reins clipped to the bottom ring. HUGE improvement over the rope (in my comfort levels, anyway). Again, I put his bridle on over the halter just so he could carry a bit and I didn’t hear a single chomp.

Progress. At the very least, it’s something that I can feasibly ride in while I figure everything else out.

[RedHorses]

When I was starting my now senior under saddle, I accidentally installed a knee jerk grab the bit and yank as a response to any contact with the bit. I switched to a hackamore and continued his training. As he grew stronger and increased his understanding of rein aids, i added a bit without reins under the hackamore. Then I put reins on the bit and using double reins, slowly transferred the main rein aids from the hackamore to the bit. My H/J coach kept bugging me to ditch the hackamore, but I wasn’t concerned because we weren’t close to show ready and I was confident my horse wouldn’t need the hackamore by the time we were ready.

Could your horse also be having a habitual, reactive response to the rein aids acting on the bit in general rather than a specific bit dislike?

[jvanrens]

@fivestrideline

Here’s how I have it adjusted. Maybe TOO high?

It could maybe go a titch lower, but not too much. You don’t want it sitting on the end of the cartilage. So many people but their halters on too low and loose. This looks almost perfect to my eye.

[fivestrideline]

@RedHorses

Could your horse also be having a habitual, reactive response to the rein aids acting on the bit in general rather than a specific bit dislike?

Maybe. He came here with it - and the breezing pic I got had him cantering with his head yanked to the left so . If it’s just habit and I need to uninstall it, some time bitless should help (as you explained!).

@jvanrens

This looks almost perfect to my eye.

Thanks for the input! I switched him to the hybrid halter but have the nose adjusted exactly the same so that’s good.

Rode the goober today (in the mud, at feeding time, on the hill outside the pasture tends to trigger mild Barn Sourness for whatever reason), and he did throw in some crow hops/head down leg flinging antics. I felt as if the hybrid halter had decent control - probably about the same as the rope bit or some other super mild snaffle.

I’d like to try him in a regular hackamore once the steering is a little better - right now we do a lot of flexing and one rein stops as I’m trying to improve his habit of locking up his neck to go the way he wants. He’s much better and really very mild about it but I do need some lateral control. Not having an arena comes with drawbacks

[Paisley_Pony]

I love this: https://www.bigdweb.com/tory-leather-jump-hackamore. It works like a sidepull but has more oomph, like a rope halter. The one I got from Big Dee’s is not light brown, but a darker havana. I’ve used these quite a bit in recent years with horses that are bit-averse, and they make the aids simple but require respect.

[173north]

I had a rather complicated pony who went great in the hybrid halter with cheapo cotton roping reins clipped under the chin!

[jvanrens]

I think with this horse, I’d go with a sidepull with the lariat noseband, like this.

https://www.bigdweb.com/professionals-choice-ranch-lariat-nose-side-pull

[Paisley_Pony]

@jvanrens To me, it would depend on how much correction he actually needed to quiet down. If he is simply playing and needs a bit of a reminder that “no means no,” then a leather covered stiffened noseband would be plenty, IMO. If he has a truly naughty streak and is not respecting his rider, then a lariat noseband like the one you suggested may be just the thing.

[fivestrideline]

Honestly he’s just playing a bit, but I ride in open spaces so my tolerance for “playing a bit” is lower than it would be in an arena . I need to know I can at least one rein stop him if needed - I definitely can’t in the flat leather side pull.

Does the rolled leather have some sort of core in it?

@jvanrens I used a double lariat side pull on a horse ages ago and liked it. If I still had one I’d definitely try it, as I think it would be more than enough brakes. I wish I could find just the nose part though, I have a hack bridle with a jaw strap that fits him pretty well.